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Get ASA/XJT Combined Seniority List

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From the way I read the ALPA admin manual it looks like there will be 3 people from ASA and 3 people from XJT that will make up the committee and determine the SLI. It is solely up to this "merger" committee. The MEC's won't even have a vote. That is why I need to be put on this committee. I will deliver the goods.
 
mckpickle said:
How is it not fair? If you're 20% on the list before the merger and you're 20% after then whats the problem? Where have you lost? Now consider you're 20% before the merger and then you're 30% after....or you're 90% before and 70% after?
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Well let's see.

Quality of trips
Quality of VAC
Ability of moving to larger airframe, since xjet has none
and the list gets loinger as time passes.
 
5 year fences on equipment/domicile changes seems like a no-brainer demand for everyone approaching this from the ASA side.
 
Our two pilot groups are so close in seniority, that DOH is the ONLY fair way to do this! We have more senior people, so maybe we can do a hybrid relative down to say 1996 hires, but after that, it needs to be straight DOH. I don't want to see XJT guys screwed on this deal, but i won't fall on my sword either. We also don't need a five year fence, thats silly, no xjt guy should be able to displace an asa guy, and vice versa, but an opening is an opening. Its not like the 900 is a freakin' 747! For Gods sake pinnacle flys them! That takes all of the special out of them right there!
 
outtahere said:
Our two pilot groups are so close in seniority, that DOH is the ONLY fair way to do this! We have more senior people, so maybe we can do a hybrid relative down to say 1996 hires, but after that, it needs to be straight DOH. I don't want to see XJT guys screwed on this deal, but i won't fall on my sword either. We also don't need a five year fence, thats silly, no xjt guy should be able to displace an asa guy, and vice versa, but an opening is an opening. Its not like the 900 is a freakin' 747! For Gods sake pinnacle flys them! That takes all of the special out of them right there!
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No, it is not the ONLY FAIR way to do this. You can holler all you like and it won't change anything. Ultimately, both groups must accept what is worked out after the JCBA is done. If not, it ends up in an arbiter's hands. I don't think any of us want that.
 
Tarzan, you're an ASA pilot right? You must be on the MEC, they care more for the XJT pilots well being than ours.
 
outtahere said:
Date of hire is the most fair way to do a seniority merger of to like pilot groups. According to this breakdown, the top half leans asa, the bottom half xjt. Asa just has more total senior people.
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Date of hire is fair. That's what we use now. When combining two airlines we should use the same rule. Just because one airline is slightly larger doesn't mean they sholuld jump over more senior people. However, fences should be in place to protect current job status and domicile at both airlines.
 
outtahere said:
Tarzan, you're an ASA pilot right? You must be on the MEC, they care more for the XJT pilots well being than ours.
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Yes. No. What I care about is not having a bunch of squabbling that causes any extra drama on the flight deck. There will be ticked off people, I'd just rather see as few as possible.
 
Me as well, which is why DOH is fair. The day you were hired is the day you were hired! It would be different in a situation like Usair/Amwest. Not one Amwest pilot is senior enough to hold a capt seat at the new company. Here, thats not the case, we have more people over 15 years, but everything after that is perfectly the same. Our hiring periods were the same, its just that xjt had a flow with CAL that sucked out alot of there senior guys.
 
Everybody meet at the A-Tech Hangar. We close the doors. The last person standing is #1 on the new seniority list, and we work backwards from there.
 
ASA_Aviator said:
I have no idea why we all are arguing over this. Someone other than us will decide it, and we MAY get to vote on it before it all is imposed on us. Basically, let's wait and see what happens, and not piss each other off. We are going to have to get along eventually, and it will be much easier to keep things civil if we aren't trying to screw each other now.
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WIN. Filled with win. Finally, some gets it.
 
Stifler's Mom said:
Everybody meet at the A-Tech Hangar. We close the doors. The last person standing is #1 on the new seniority list, and we work backwards from there.
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I'm all about this option. With all of my police, CIA, FBI and recurrent ground self defense training I will surely be numero uno when the dust settles.
 
You forgot the 3,000+/- skw pilots. Don't give up on xjt's scope yet...then there's comair or mesa or eagle. What about them. Point is we don't know anything yet.
 
I don't understand the problem with relative seniority. I had a UAL jumpseater who asked if it was fair that a CAL 2005 hire should be senior to him, a 1996 hire, I said yes if that's what their relative seniority would be. You are x% on your premerger company list you should be at the same x% after the integration. That's how it should have been at USAir, that's how it should be at the new UAL, and I think that's how it should be at the new ASA ( with SKYW as well). With relative seniority no one benefits and no one is harmed, everyone is where they were before any integration. Let's face it, it's really only one aircraft type, it's not like the 700 and 900 pay much more than the 50 seaters.
 
But that is a windfall for the xjt guy that got hired in 1996, and now he is just as senior as an asa guy that was hired in 1984. If you want truly fair integration, doh is it. How can you argue with that. We are similar, we are buying you, and we have the better long term prospects. I like our chances with the arbitrator if it comes to that. Relative is not fair for the asa guys. Sorry.
 
outtahere said:
But that is a windfall for the xjt guy that got hired in 1996, and now he is just as senior as an asa guy that was hired in 1984. If you want truly fair integration, doh is it. How can you argue with that. We are similar, we are buying you, and we have the better long term prospects. I like our chances with the arbitrator if it comes to that. Relative is not fair for the asa guys. Sorry.
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I agree. This is a acquisition not a merger.
 
Really? It is fair to be equal to that 1984 hire if you're relatively in the same place. How is that a windfall? What is that 1996 XJT pilot gaining? Both pilots are 1% before the merger and 1% after the merger, everything is the same. Nothing really changes as far as bidding anything.

Also, ASA isn't buying anything, it's Skywest, they are putting XJT with ASA, could have just as well put it with SKYW. And XJT is a larger company than ASA, so what? XJT is not in bankruptcy (yet) and XJT has contracts to continue flying for CAL and UAL for at least the next several years. There are benefits for both groups, aside from the ego part of seeing your seniority number next to someone hired years after you, what's the problem with relative seniority?
 
Not sure what is exactly fair at all, but you cannot say ASA is buying XJT when you are trying to bypass the scope issue then say SkyW is buying XJT when it comes to merging the lists if it is only those 2. That doesn't fly. We all know why ASA is buying XJT, but that is exactly what is happening. The hiring is so similar at both companies. The only issue is that XJT has more pilots.
 
airtime42 said:
I agree. This is a acquisition not a merger.
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If XJT didn't bring great value to Inc, JA would not have bought us. Skw has wanted to get into bed so badly that they have gone thru great lengths twice in two years to make it happen. That's the thing with mergers and acquisitions, they are mutually beneficient. If not, skw should just let us go bk if you guys are so sure that would happen and then they can just buy the assets and do with the pilots what they would really rather do.
 
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Isn't DOH better than on the street in a few years???????

SKYW is getting your flying with or with XJT that's just how ruthless the industry is.

Now let it rip..........
 

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