Get ASA/XJT Combined Seniority List

[COEX-FO]

Ummmmmm, many of the XJT would lose around 5% while the ASA guys would gain or only lose about 1-2%. I wouldn't consider this "fair and equitable".

It is not fair and equitable and we both know it will not be a DOH integration!

Relative seniority will be the basis and in case of ties, either DOH or DOB will be the tie breaker. There will also probably also be some other minor accommodations such as not being downgraded involuntary etc.

In other words, it's not as simple as example shows.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

In other words, free senority for time not put in.

 

[mtsupilot]

Are you telling me that someone who was hired after my hire date at another "Regional" carrier deserves to be senior to me.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Here we go!

 

[sayrejm]

It is a valid point. If you do r.s then you would have some people at XJT hired years after said person at ASA who would then be more senior on a combined list. Then if you use d.o.h. you would have many ASA guys being junior to every XJT guy there is. So, what is the bright idea to overcome both negatives. Also consider many of these guys will move on in the next 5-10 years and not live out their career at this company. (unless they have always dreamed of flying for a super-duper regional airline!) In all seriousness, it has been and hopefully will remain a good company to work for.

 

[mckpickle]

In other words, free senority for time not put in.

How is it not fair? If you're 20% on the list before the merger and you're 20% after then whats the problem? Where have you lost? Now consider you're 20% before the merger and then you're 30% after....or you're 90% before and 70% after?

 

[ASA_Aviator]

How is it not fair? If you're 20% on the list before the merger and you're 20% after then whats the problem? Where have you lost? Now consider you're 20% before the merger and then you're 30% after....or you're 90% before and 70% after?

I have no idea why we all are arguing over this. Someone other than us will decide it, and we MAY get to vote on it before it all is imposed on us. Basically, let's wait and see what happens, and not piss each other off. We are going to have to get along eventually, and it will be much easier to keep things civil if we aren't trying to screw each other now.

 

[mckpickle]

I have no idea why we all are arguing over this. Someone other than us will decide it, and we MAY get to vote on it before it all is imposed on us. Basically, let's wait and see what happens, and not piss each other off. We are going to have to get along eventually, and it will be much easier to keep things civil if we aren't trying to screw each other now.

I agree 100%. I hope no one thinks I was trying to be confrontational. I was just trying to point out the argument against a DOH.

 

[sweptback]

I have no idea why we all are arguing over this. Someone other than us will decide it, and we MAY get to vote on it before it all is imposed on us. Basically, let's wait and see what happens, and not piss each other off. We are going to have to get along eventually, and it will be much easier to keep things civil if we aren't trying to screw each other now.

You don't get to vote on a SLI.

 

[cybourg10]

I agree 100%. I hope no one thinks I was trying to be confrontational. I was just trying to point out the argument against a DOH.

Plus or minus 5% seniority is the most I saw on the make believe list. No one will see a 20% shift in the real SLI.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

You don't get to vote on a SLI.

I wasn't sure, which is why I said, "MAY" in capital letters. Apparently, we won't. So WTF are we arguing about?

 

[Nevets]

4. Almost everyone will find something to be pissed off about

Yeah, only the person at the top of the list will be happy.

Any chance you can create a new list on relative seniority?

 

[the palm]

From the way I read the ALPA admin manual it looks like there will be 3 people from ASA and 3 people from XJT that will make up the committee and determine the SLI. It is solely up to this "merger" committee. The MEC's won't even have a vote. That is why I need to be put on this committee. I will deliver the goods.

 

[Texx]

How is it not fair? If you're 20% on the list before the merger and you're 20% after then whats the problem? Where have you lost? Now consider you're 20% before the merger and then you're 30% after....or you're 90% before and 70% after?

Well let's see.

Quality of trips
Quality of VAC
Ability of moving to larger airframe, since xjet has none
and the list gets loinger as time passes.

 

[johnpeace]

5 year fences on equipment/domicile changes seems like a no-brainer demand for everyone approaching this from the ASA side.

 

[outtahere]

Our two pilot groups are so close in seniority, that DOH is the ONLY fair way to do this! We have more senior people, so maybe we can do a hybrid relative down to say 1996 hires, but after that, it needs to be straight DOH. I don't want to see XJT guys screwed on this deal, but i won't fall on my sword either. We also don't need a five year fence, thats silly, no xjt guy should be able to displace an asa guy, and vice versa, but an opening is an opening. Its not like the 900 is a freakin' 747! For Gods sake pinnacle flys them! That takes all of the special out of them right there!

 

[Tarzan]

Our two pilot groups are so close in seniority, that DOH is the ONLY fair way to do this! We have more senior people, so maybe we can do a hybrid relative down to say 1996 hires, but after that, it needs to be straight DOH. I don't want to see XJT guys screwed on this deal, but i won't fall on my sword either. We also don't need a five year fence, thats silly, no xjt guy should be able to displace an asa guy, and vice versa, but an opening is an opening. Its not like the 900 is a freakin' 747! For Gods sake pinnacle flys them! That takes all of the special out of them right there!

No, it is not the ONLY FAIR way to do this. You can holler all you like and it won't change anything. Ultimately, both groups must accept what is worked out after the JCBA is done. If not, it ends up in an arbiter's hands. I don't think any of us want that.

 

[outtahere]

Tarzan, you're an ASA pilot right? You must be on the MEC, they care more for the XJT pilots well being than ours.

 

[sunlitpath]

Date of hire is the most fair way to do a seniority merger of to like pilot groups. According to this breakdown, the top half leans asa, the bottom half xjt. Asa just has more total senior people.

Date of hire is fair. That's what we use now. When combining two airlines we should use the same rule. Just because one airline is slightly larger doesn't mean they sholuld jump over more senior people. However, fences should be in place to protect current job status and domicile at both airlines.

 

[Data]

Its not like the 900 is a freakin' 747! For Gods sake pinnacle flys them! That takes all of the special out of them right there!

Classic!