Get ASA/XJT Combined Seniority List

[Nevets]

Isn't DOH better than on the street in a few years???????

SKYW is getting your flying with or with XJT that's just how ruthless the industry is.

Now let it rip..........

Sure they are. That is why they have gone thru all this trouble twice in two years. If you were right, they would just do that since it would be easier to screw the pilots and a whole lot cheaper. And even if it was true, I personally rather take that risk then to be a part of the JA whipsaw.

 

[Max Q]

Smells like scum in here.

 

[outtahere]

What whipsaw? Things are alot better at asa now than before skywest. True we don't have three days like we used to, but everything else is better. Skywest does wht they are good at, they make money. They are smart enough to treat the employees well, because it makes money. They have kept a union out of bigloveville this whole time by keeping the help happy. If you're gonna fight a war, at least know what it is you are fighting over. You don't have a clue.
By the way, you're company is a chess piece in the Inc game, whether you become the queen, or the pawn is up to all of us getting this deal done. Fall on you're sword if you like, but I think you'll be alone.

 

[AVoiceOfReason]

If XJT didn't bring great value to Inc, JA would not have bought us. Skw has wanted to get into bed so badly that they have gone thru great lengths twice in two years to make it happen. That's the thing with mergers and acquisitions, they are mutually beneficient. If not, skw should just let us go bk if you guys are so sure that would happen and then they can just buy the assets and do with the pilots what they would really rather do.

A little full of ourselves aren't we. You do bring value to Skywest Inc, as does Skywest Inc bring value to you. Now here is the question. Who needs the other more. In my opinion, Skywest Inc. will be fine even if this doesn't happen. ExpressJet on the other hand may not fare as well if this falls through.

Pride goeth before the fall.

AVoiceofReason

 

[Broke in CVG]

I think the SLI should be alphabetically based on last name.

This isn't a big deal.... it could have been worse, Compass SLI. How would you like to be a 10th year displaced CA-FO yanking gear for a 3rd year CA, who 4 years ago was your new hire FO before jumping ship for Compass?

 

[Whydoitry]

This isn't a big deal.... it could have been worse, Compass SLI. How would you like to be a 10th year displaced CA-FO yanking gear for a 3rd year CA, who 4 years ago was your new hire FO before jumping ship for Compass?[/QUOTE]

Well as much as it sucks, relative seniority would be fair. That new hire FO took a risk going to Compass that the 10 year CA-FO didn't. Now if that FO was in the top 50% at Compass, and was a CA, he should still be top 50% on the new list.

I'm still waiting for someone to point out the problems with relative seniority, and how there is a windfall for anyone.

 

[rstev1955]

What whipsaw? Things are alot better at asa now than before skywest.

How many pilots did Skywest furlough over the past 5 years? How many pilots did ASA furlough over the past 5 years. Case closed.

 

[COOPERVANE]

Where I am on the list, as an ASA pilot I would do better with DOH. But I think it is MORE FAIR for everyone to do relative seniority.

I didn't like how our signing bonus was disbursed even though I was a Captain. My friends in my new hire class who were still FO's got less than half of what I did. I was embarrassed how the other Captains sat around and justified why they should get more. It was a signing bonus, not retro.

I am embarrassed by people who want to unfairly improve their seniority by screaming DOH and "we bought you" Good thing it's not up to us.

This is what is wrong with this world and this industry. Your greed is showing.

 

[Tarzan]

Where I am on the list, as an ASA pilot I would do better with DOH. But I think it is MORE FAIR for everyone to do relative seniority.

I didn't like how our signing bonus was disbursed even though I was a Captain. My friends in my new hire class who were still FO's got less than half of what I did. I was embarrassed how the other Captains sat around and justified why they should get more. It was a signing bonus, not retro.

I am embarrassed by people who want to unfairly improve their seniority by screaming DOH and "we bought you" Good thing it's not up to us.

This is what is wrong with this world and this industry. Your greed is showing.

You must be on the MEC! They care about XJT more than ASA pilots! (according to outtahere)

 

[Nevets]

What whipsaw? Things are alot better at asa now than before skywest. True we don't have three days like we used to, but everything else is better. Skywest does wht they are good at, they make money. They are smart enough to treat the employees well, because it makes money. They have kept a union out of bigloveville this whole time by keeping the help happy. If you're gonna fight a war, at least know what it is you are fighting over. You don't have a clue.
By the way, you're company is a chess piece in the Inc game, whether you become the queen, or the pawn is up to all of us getting this deal done. Fall on you're sword if you like, but I think you'll be alone.

Didn't they give your 900s to skw during negotiations? What about PBS?

Anyways, JA has already whipsawed XJT with his skw pilots two years ago.

 

[Nevets]

A little full of ourselves aren't we. You do bring value to Skywest Inc, as does Skywest Inc bring value to you. Now here is the question. Who needs the other more. In my opinion, Skywest Inc. will be fine even if this doesn't happen. ExpressJet on the other hand may not fare as well if this falls through.

Pride goeth before the fall.

AVoiceofReason

Of course Inc brings great value to XJT. That is exactly why I said it was mutually beneficent. But keep in mind that it's Inc that has initiated this for the second time in two years.

Pride? Of course I have pride! I have pride in this profession and rather not be a part of JA plans to make a farce out of our contract just becuase he doesn't have respect for gus new employees. Yes, personally I rather go it alone then to let this whipsaw continue.

 

[Data]

How did Delta and Northwest handle it, was it a combination of DOH and relative seniority or were the groups matched closely enough to do relative seniority without too many problems? I've heard, and don't know if it's true, that the worst a Delta/NW guy did was a loss of 1.5% seniority. Isn't that going to be the model for ALPA going forward?

 

[IFLYASA]

Based on a relative seniority list, there would be around 300 xjt pilots who were hired "after" me, now become senior to me. That doens't seem very fair.

 

[Whydoitry]

Based on a relative seniority list, there would be around 300 xjt pilots who were hired "after" me, now become senior to me. That doens't seem very fair.

Why is that not fair if your relative seniority is the same?

 

[CFI2766]

Would you be willing to PM me your information so I can see why that error exists?

I stand corrected. There is someone on the XJT list who has the same last name, a pretty uncommon last name, that I do. I got it wrong when I saw the other pilot with my last name.

That being said, what is the point of creating this list? In the context of creating a merger that is better for everyone involved, what was really accomplished in doing this?

I'm not trying to insult you personally, I just don't see the logic here. It's a lot like saying, 'Look, here's a model I built of what I think the next super-dooper regional airplane will look like...See, it's reallllly shiny!!'

No one can accurately predict what the list will look like at this time. This merger will only work if at least 51% of the combined list is happy and the entire pilot group thinks that a merged airline is better than two separate entities. Doest this hypothetical list forward the merger in any way?

 

[IFLYASA]

Why is that not fair if your relative seniority is the same?

Ok
For example, let's say these 300 pilots who were hired after me all decide to come to ATL and bid my airplane. Just go with this. Sure my relative seniority is the same, but I just got pushed back 300 numbers on my airplane to someone hired after me.

I know this is extreme but you should see my point.

 

[79%N1]

Exactly! Relative seniority is a farce! So what I'm in the same percentage! If 300 guys who were hired into this industry 2-3 years after me, and have 2-3 years less invested at this company than me can now bid ahead of me for aircraft, bases and vacation then that is nowhere close to the neighborhood of fair! Sorry. Relative percentage means NOTHING!

 

[sunlitpath]

Relative seniority is a scam. We are both ALPA carriers. Date of Hire is perfectly fair and reasonable as a foundation for integration.

 

[BOX OFFICE]

Relative seniority only works if you have similar bases, equipment, and career expectations. That works well at a mainline carrier, but not so much at a regional. DOH with fences may be the "fairest" way to go. And I have no dog in this fight.

 

[Whydoitry]

Ok
For example, let's say these 300 pilots who were hired after me all decide to come to ATL and bid my airplane. Just go with this. Sure my relative seniority is the same, but I just got pushed back 300 numbers on my airplane to someone hired after me.

I know this is extreme but you should see my point.

Yes I see your point, but it is very unlikely.Yes you would expect some people to switch bases but that would go both ways. With DOH all those senior ASA pilots might bid IAH, again very unlikely.

Really the whole thing is moot unless we get the SKYW pilots in on this as well.

 

[COOPERVANE]

I can tell you exactly what will happen. Whoever is in charge of integrating the lists WILL do so in a manner that pisses off the LEAST amount of people, whatever method that may be.

 

[Whydoitry]

Relative seniority only works if you have similar bases, equipment, and career expectations. That works well at a mainline carrier, but not so much at a regional. DOH with fences may be the "fairest" way to go. And I have no dog in this fight.

We do have similar bases, ATL/IAH IAD/EWR, equipment, (700 only pays $3 more/hr than ERJ CA, meaningless) and career expectations.

 

[Medeco]

I can tell you exactly what will happen. Whoever is in charge of integrating the lists WILL do so in a manner that pisses off the LEAST amount of people, whatever method that may be.

You mean the MOST. :laugh:

I'd like to hear some communication from the ASA MEC about who they are selecting to the Merger committee and why they chose them.

 

[IFLYASA]

Yes I see your point, but it is very unlikely.Yes you would expect some people to switch bases but that would go both ways. With DOH all those senior ASA pilots might bid IAH, again very unlikely.

Really the whole thing is moot unless we get the SKYW pilots in on this as well.

Let's say one day we do get a 100-125 seat aircraft that pays around $20 per hour more. That's significant enough for alot of senior pilots to jump ship toward the bigger boat, regardless of base. Because of relative seniority, I would still have to get in line behind those now "senior 300" pilots that were hired after me.. That pay difference and quality of life is HUGE.

 

[cybourg10]

Lets go DOH with no fences so upgrades aren't closed off to one side for a while. There are a few ASA FOs that could hold LINES as ORD CA. Fences are stupid for regional mergers, there is nothing to protect.

 

[johnpeace]

There are a few ASA FOs that could hold LINES as ORD CA. Fences are stupid for regional mergers, there is nothing to protect.

If I wind up on reserve in Newark I'm going to remember you said that and shaving-cream your car or something.

 

[outtahere]

Date of Hire with a no bump provision that protects seat and domicile is fair for all.

 

[Plainsman]

Question, when will either hire? Word around asa was fall.

 

[BankAccount=0$]

does anybody know if SKYW ever completed their EMB-145 program from a couple of years ago. Or to put it another way, does SKYW have the EMB-145 on their Operating Certificate?

 

[cybourg10]

Date of Hire with a no bump provision that protects seat and domicile is fair for all.

the only way that could happen would be that you CHOSE to upgrade out there in which case the drinks are on you. No one is going to get displaced out of there base but the new openings should not be fenced off.