Game On

[theskyking]

You could never face persecution for a legitimate write up. Period. End of discussion. Next topic please.

 

[B19 Flyer]

You could never face persecution for a legitimate write up. Period. End of discussion. Next topic please.

True.

However, it won't take a lot of effort to show the good judge a pattern of writeups that didn't exist before the work action. It's very easy to identify by employee.

 

[FR8DOG777]

Puuuuhhhllleeeeeeez

The more evidence of a slowdown, the easier it is to get the injunction and stop the union from hurting their non-pilot coworkers and aircraft owners.
Yes let's put an end to this travesty immediately. Just the other day I flew some owners that said we were nothing but warts and they didn't care what was wrong with the airplane and we were intentionally impeding their schedule. The sad fact is you fools have accomplished nothing but further tarnishing of our name and service we provide. Ask yourselves this? Just what have you accomplished? Do you think we will settle for anything less than industry standard? Do you think you are doing any of the remaining owners a favor by trying to negotiate a less favorable contract with the pilots that are the lifeblood of this company? Satan is the ceo of this company whispering into little ********************tfingers ear; trust us we know how to handle these situations(FUD AND HARRISAX). Good luck boys, you're gonna need it. +

 

[HiSpeedFlyer]

Folks, it is real easy.

"Don't do anything illegal for or against the company." B19 will try to twist words, make us try to contradict ourselves, whatever. He is throwing around FUD. He is not your friend.

Nope, Fischman...I'm done with Haitin'! I want him to be my buddy..To quote someone closer to B19's makeup, "I'm gonna Love hime and Hug Him and Squeeze Him and call him George..."
"Now, George, don't be a bad Bunny rabbit, or you will have to be punished!!"


B19, you are an abominable snowman... and you better watch out or you might melt in the bright sunny rays of unionism.



BTW.. All is well for now, results came in today. More to follow on other channels.

 

[Helmsalee]

Anyone who quotes Frank Lorenzo and believes it is an idiot.

 

[netjetwife]

I still dont understand why anyone wants to engage this Idiot? (B19) If you he called you on the phone and started his B.S. Wouldnt you just hang up? ..JUST HANG UP ON HIM ALREADY!!!

Those of us with caller ID wouldn't even bother to answer the phone; we would avoid him just like we do telemarketers. Essentially their the same thing...he's pushing a bad deal (FUD) no one is interested in. Come to think of it, scrolling past his posts and/or using the ignore function--as many of us do --is the same thing. I agree with you, Shane, that his posts don't warrant a direct quote. Those are for friendly chats with online neighbors. A village idiot standing in the square banging monotonously on his drum....FUD..FUD..FUD..while demonizing boots and mock pirate voices used for fun, just sends the rest of the community in the opposite direction rolling their eyes and sympathizing with one another.

Give the frac board telemarketer equivalent the boot.

 

[Fozzy]

Management has worked very hard over the past 30 years to eat away at the job of the PIC. They love nothing more than reducing us to monkeys (and paying us as such).

Ignore B19, if you are doing your job and being professional, you have nothing to fear. At the very least you will have your honor for being a professional. Something that has been lost at many carriers. (and yes that is an insult and a challenge!!!).
B19 knows nothing of honor so this will be over his head. But he does know a lot of getting on his knees. (another insult, what some people do for moneyuke

A quick search of google gives you the below.
http://www.globalair.com/discussions/legal_services/article~/msgID=63

All pilots are aware, or at least should be aware of FAR 91.3(a) which states that "[t]he pilot in command of an aircraft is directly responsible for, and is the final authority as to, the operation of that aircraft." FAR 91.3(a) establishes authority for a PIC to exercise discretion and take actions in the operation of his or her aircraft, as well as responsibility for any and all actions taken by the PIC. This FAR has been relied upon by many an NTSB accident investigator in establishing the probable cause for an accident and by many plaintiffs' attorneys trying to establish liability for an aircraft accident.

§ 91.3 Responsibility and authority of the pilot in command.

(a) The pilot in command of an aircraft is directly responsible for, and is the final authority as to, the operation of that aircraft.

 

[Hobbes]

I POST:

Quote by Hobbes:
Bottom line: Write it up where and when you find it. In the US, out of the US, empty leg, live leg, preflight, postflight, day or night. When you find it is when you find it, and that is when you are REQUIRED to report it.

(and YES - the "checklists" can be used by pilots who are doing things by the book. If mx were being performed with integrity, there would be no need to say anything about these "checklists" - your issue with them is in itself a tacit admittance that you know the airplanes are flying around with grounding discrepancies that you wish not to be found.)

The village idiot B19 retorts:

I encourage you to hold those write ups and break those airplanes in the most inconvenient locations possible.



At some point do other posters all not see that VI (village idiot, that would be B19) does not even address what you actually say, but twists words around and adds and subtracts whatever is needed to try to make things fit his agenda?

NO ONE in the IBT1108 is or ever has advocated holding writeups or choosing where to write them up....that is CGF mx who tries to make you hold writeups and choose where to write them. IBT and it's members say, first verify it is a LEGITIMATE squawk (not hard to do, this company takes piss poor care of it's airplanes) and then write it up wherever you are when you find, whether it is a convenient location or not. Anyone with a brain will see that the writeups no longer fall all in one location (mx base) and they are all legitimate squawks....no worries for the pilots, end of story.

Back to real life....hope you are having fun today B19, Bob Tyler, David Marker, whoever you are!

 

[B19 Flyer]

Management has worked very hard over the past 30 years to eat away at the job of the PIC. They love nothing more than reducing us to monkeys (and paying us as such).

Ignore B19, if you are doing your job and being professional, you have nothing to fear. At the very least you will have your honor for being a professional. Something that has been lost at many carriers. (and yes that is an insult and a challenge!!!).
B19 knows nothing of honor so this will be over his head. But he does know a lot of getting on his knees. (another insult, what some people do for moneyuke

A quick search of google gives you the below.
http://www.globalair.com/discussions/legal_services/article~/msgID=63

All pilots are aware, or at least should be aware of FAR 91.3(a) which states that "[t]he pilot in command of an aircraft is directly responsible for, and is the final authority as to, the operation of that aircraft." FAR 91.3(a) establishes authority for a PIC to exercise discretion and take actions in the operation of his or her aircraft, as well as responsibility for any and all actions taken by the PIC. This FAR has been relied upon by many an NTSB accident investigator in establishing the probable cause for an accident and by many plaintiffs' attorneys trying to establish liability for an aircraft accident.

§ 91.3 Responsibility and authority of the pilot in command.

(a) The pilot in command of an aircraft is directly responsible for, and is the final authority as to, the operation of that aircraft.

91.3 simplifies research to identify abnormal trends in write-ups. There is only one PIC per aircraft, and if write up trends follow the PIC rather than the aircraft, the basis of the injunction is formed.

Knock your socks off, write those airplanes up, show the trends, supply the evidence.

 

[Fozzy]

Knock your socks off, write those airplanes up, show the trends, supply the evidence.

Go for it! I can not wait to see the press release. "Captain punished for writing up unairworthy aircraft!" That is bad press no frac can afford.

Man could that help the competitors!

Keep the FUD coming F&H, I will do may part knocking it back.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Those of us with caller ID wouldn't even bother to answer the phone; we would avoid him just like we do telemarketers. Essentially their the same thing...he's pushing a bad deal (FUD) no one is interested in. Come to think of it, scrolling past his posts and/or using the ignore function--as many of us do --is the same thing. I agree with you, Shane, that his posts don't warrant a direct quote. Those are for friendly chats with online neighbors. A village idiot standing in the square banging monotonously on his drum....FUD..FUD..FUD..while demonizing boots and mock pirate voices used for fun, just sends the rest of the community in the opposite direction rolling their eyes and sympathizing with one another.

Give the frac board telemarketer equivalent the boot.

You are a pilot's wife and nothing more.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Go for it! I can not wait to see the press release. "Captain punished for writing up unairworthy aircraft!" That is bad press no frac can afford.

Man could that help the competitors!

Keep the FUD coming F&H, I will do may part knocking it back.

No, it wont' pick on the individual pilot. You are inexperienced at this stuff aren't you?

Actually, it will read something like this:

Delta Air unit Comair gets injunction against pilots

Wed Feb 7, 2007 3:04pm EST
NEW YORK, Feb 7 (Reuters) - Comair, a bankrupt unit of Delta Air Lines Inc. DALRQ.PK, on Wednesday was granted a preliminary injunction by a U.S. bankruptcy court halting any work action by its pilots related to an ongoing contract dispute.

 

[theskyking]

These are the same threats that managers have used since airplanes have been flying. "You either fly that airplane or you lose your job." Isn't that the same kind of BS that B19 is regurgitating here? He is insinuating that if you discover a legitimate write up that you will be targeted.

Everyone knows that some pilots are more thorough with their preflights than others. So, in B19's estimation and esteemed opinion, that thorough, conscientious pilot will be targeted by management.

I say bring it on.

I think it would be hard to define a legitimate write up as a work action. If it's broke, it's broke. Now if everyone called in sick on the same day, then maybe you might have a case.

 

[B19 Flyer]

These are the same threats that managers have used since airplanes have been flying. "You either fly that airplane or you lose your job." Isn't that the same kind of BS that B19 is regurgitating here? He is insinuating that if you discover a legitimate write up that you will be targeted.

Everyone knows that some pilots are more thorough with their preflights than others. So, in B19's estimation and esteemed opinion, that thorough, conscientious pilot will be targeted by management.

I say bring it on.

No, that is not what I'm saying.

When a trend develops that can prove a concerted effort, even if it is a rogue effort, of write-ups outside of the ordinary, the injunction can be granted stopping the behavior. The trends are easy to identify because there are usually only a small percentage of pilots that will act stupidly. That small group will make the entire group look like idiots, and the union gets bad press when the injunction is issued.

Like I said, do the writeups, be safe, show the trend so the injunction can be filed. The quicker the better.

You seem to think that it can't happen.

Here is the original injuntion based on the slowdown. That wasn't "sanctioned" by the union either, but I'm certain that it made the pilots stop the behavior.


http://www.airlinesafety.com/articles/ComairInjunction.htm

 

[fischman]

These are the same threats that managers have used since airplanes have been flying. "You either fly that airplane or you lose your job." Isn't that the same kind of BS that B19 is regurgitating here? YES HE IS! He is insinuating that if you discover a legitimate write up that you will be targeted. That's what I've been trying to say! I would encourage the FI.com mods to forward this thread to the FAA. I am SURE that would be very interested in knowing that a "manager for a non-union airline" is advocating to not write up airplanes when they break. B19 would be out of aviation on his OWN accord. (He'll still blame unions. How could his FAILURE possibly be HIS fault?!?)

Everyone knows that some pilots are more thorough with their preflights than others. So, in B19's estimation and esteemed opinion, that thorough, conscientious pilot will be targeted by management. I stand by every write-up I send in.

I say bring it on.

I think it would be hard to define a legitimate write up as a work action. If it's broke, it's broke. Now if everyone called in sick on the same day, then maybe you might have a case.

.....

 

[fischman]

No, that is not what I'm saying. Be clear then. You have not made a clear post.

When a trend develops that can prove a concerted effort, even if it is a rogue effort, of write-ups outside of the ordinary, the injunction can be granted stopping the behavior. So they are supposed to leave the items broken??? Who is supposed to do these write ups??? The trends are easy to identify because there are usually only a small percentage of pilots that will act stupidly. That small group will make the entire group look like idiots, By doing their job and writing up broken airplanes? How does that make them look like idiots? and the union gets bad press when the injunction is issued. The company gets bad press when planes start falling out of the sky too.

Like I said, do the writeups, be safe, show the trend so the injunction can be filed. The quicker the better. Speed is not the measurement of a good job.

You seem to think that it can't happen.

Here is the original injuntion based on the slowdown. That wasn't "sanctioned" by the union either, but I'm certain that it made the pilots stop the behavior.


http://www.airlinesafety.com/articles/ComairInjunction.htm

No one is scared of the same injuction you keep posting. You are throwing FUD

 

[B19 Flyer]

.....

Read my previous post fischman.. I'm trying to teach you something here...

 

[B19 Flyer]

No one is scared of the same injuction you keep posting. You are throwing FUD

There is a massive difference between the fear, uncertainty and doubt that you post, and the fact of the injunction that was issued on the other side of the state stopping the behavior.

But then again, facts lose you in this conversation, don't they?

 

[Hobbes]

FUD

FUD

FUD

FUD

FUD

FUD

FUD

 

[theskyking]

"From calling, permitting, authorizing, encouraging, participating in, approving of, or continuing any disruption, curtailment, or restriction of normal airline operations or procedures, including but not limited to improper maintenance write-ups, slowdowns, or other work stoppages and all acts in furtherance or in support thereof:"

This is a quote form the link you posted. The key word is "improper". Again, I stand by the fact that if it's broke, it's broke. I don't care how many times I've written something up in the past, if it's broke today, tomorrow, or the next day it should get written up when and where it is found.

 

[1po'dpilot]

B19/scab/...

...whatever you prefer to be called. Since you've blatenyly ignored my last post in this thread...

Here is your FUD:
That there exists a collective bargaining agreement between the parties.
That the parties currently are engaged in collective bargaining for a successor collective agreement, pursuant to Section 6 of the RLA, 45 U.S.C. 156.
The RLA requires the parties to observe the status quo during collective bargaining until and unless the parties exhaust the negotiation, mediation and arbitration mechanisms established by the RLA for the resolution of "major disputes."
Those processes have not been exhausted.
Notwithstanding its statutory duty to maintain the status quo, Defendant ALPA and its members have violated the status quo by the manner and means in which its members have written-up mechanical deficiencies.

Once again I will point out there is no CBA, and FLOPS position is there is no status quo. You of all people know that. So try to find something relevant to this argument and relative to fractionals.

Now I can't wait to hear your brilliant retort... Or maybe you'll just pretend to have not read this again since you have no way of countering it.


FUD away......

 

[B19 Flyer]

...whatever you prefer to be called. Since you've blatenyly ignored my last post in this thread...

Here is your FUD:
That there exists a collective bargaining agreement between the parties.
That the parties currently are engaged in collective bargaining for a successor collective agreement, pursuant to Section 6 of the RLA, 45 U.S.C. 156.
The RLA requires the parties to observe the status quo during collective bargaining until and unless the parties exhaust the negotiation, mediation and arbitration mechanisms established by the RLA for the resolution of "major disputes."
Those processes have not been exhausted.
Notwithstanding its statutory duty to maintain the status quo, Defendant ALPA and its members have violated the status quo by the manner and means in which its members have written-up mechanical deficiencies.

Once again I will point out there is no CBA, and FLOPS position is there is no status quo. You of all people know that. So try to find something relevant to this argument and relative to fractionals.

Now I can't wait to hear your brilliant retort... Or maybe you'll just pretend to have not read this again since you have no way of countering it.


FUD away......

Didn't ignore, just didn't find it relevant.

CBA or not, a change in pattern as a negotiations tactic and work slowdown can have an injunction ordered to cease the action.

 

[Hobbes]

FUD

FUD

FUD

FUD

FUD

FUD
​

 

[netjetwife]

Hobbes, you're 100% correct. FUD is posted because it is hard to deny reality without looking like the village idiot. Here are a few factual reminders to keep things real: The FLOPS aren't meeting the industry standard. The Options pilots are overworked and underpaid compared to the vast majority of frac pilots. Contracts are common-place in our economy, especially among professionals. By refusing to offer the pilots a fair deal upper management is slowing down operations as more and more pilots leave in disgust and most qualified candidates refuse to apply. Pilots looking for a job in the frac industry go to NJA and CS where they are treated respectfully and paid appropriately.

OPTIONS PILOTS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE LIVES OF THEIR PASSENGERS AND THE REPUTATION OF THE COMPANY. THEY SHOULD BE PAID ACCORDINGLY LIKE THEIR PEERS AT NJA AND SHARES.

 

[Galaxy]

I finally got tired of B19's fud and ignored him.. I wish the rest of you would just do the same and stop quoting his FUD.

Although I will never see B19's response-
This is the only Lorenzo quote I like;
"I'm not paid to be a candy ass, I'm paid to go and get the job done."

I stick to that one.. and the job is to fly the safest fleet of junk airplanes in the world.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

I finally got tired of B19's fud and ignored him.. I wish the rest of you would just do the same and stop quoting his FUD.
.

lol. My view of this whole thread is just a repeated list of "you are ignoring this message" from B-19, NJW, etc. People still quoting that drivel are just as guilty as the trolls they're quoting. Life is too short to go back & worth with a miserable, useless POS, that essentially has spent 97% of their LIVES on here engaged in nothing but the same nonstop bs...over and over and over. Think about what pathetic lives lead to that kind of existence? I pity the likes of them because instead of being with their families, they chose to make posting on here their full time "job." Think of how much hate is inside of someone like that.
All they have is this board and the puppets that all too easily give them the attention they seek, by responding to and quoting them.
Puppets being played on this April Fool's and EVERY day.

 

[fischman]

There is a massive difference between the fear, uncertainty and doubt that you post, and the fact of the injunction that was issued on the other side of the state stopping the behavior.

But then again, facts lose you in this conversation, don't they?

I think you are confused. You are the FUD poster. Not me.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Hobbes, you're 100% correct. FUD is posted because it is hard to deny reality without looking like the village idiot. Here are a few factual reminders to keep things real: The FLOPS aren't meeting the industry standard. The Options pilots are overworked and underpaid compared to the vast majority of frac pilots. Contracts are common-place in our economy, especially among professionals. By refusing to offer the pilots a fair deal upper management is slowing down operations as more and more pilots leave in disgust and most qualified candidates refuse to apply. Pilots looking for a job in the frac industry go to NJA and CS where they are treated respectfully and paid appropriately.

OPTIONS PILOTS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE LIVES OF THEIR PASSENGERS AND THE REPUTATION OF THE COMPANY. THEY SHOULD BE PAID ACCORDINGLY LIKE THEIR PEERS AT NJA AND SHARES.

You are a pilot's wife. Nothing more.

 

[Fozzy]

No, it wont' pick on the individual pilot. You are inexperienced at this stuff aren't you?

Actually no. What you don't seem to grasp is this. When you have NOTHING to loose, you just don't give a $hit. This was the same problem NJA had in 05. The pilots were ready to burn the place down and go unemployed. The court can do whatever they want, to bad no one will be there any more. So push the FUD, nobody cares about getting sued. It is win win. You win a contract or the place goes under. I know that bothers the hell out of you, because you care about the non union employees (this begs many questions why you care about non union employees so much) but that is the way it is.
Pay a professional wage or go under. Simple.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Actually no. What you don't seem to grasp is this. When you have NOTHING to loose, you just don't give a $hit. This was the same problem NJA had in 05. The pilots were ready to burn the place down and go unemployed. The court can do whatever they want, to bad no one will be there any more. So push the FUD, nobody cares about getting sued. It is win win. You win a contract or the place goes under. I know that bothers the hell out of you, because you care about the non union employees (this begs many questions why you care about non union employees so much) but that is the way it is.
Pay a professional wage or go under. Simple.

I care about non-union employees because they are much more dedicated to aviation than union employees are. They aren't in it for the money, they are in it for the mission.