Game On

[Fozzy]

Good thing B19 flies a desk and not an airplane. According to him it would be stupid, selfish and counterproductive to thoroughly preflight an airplane. I guess, as a management stooge, he would be happy to fly any old plane into any old situation. B19, keep up the good work. You are a shining example.

My bet is B-19 is unable to do the job of a professional pilot. He is on a desk because that is all he can do.
Jealous and bitter. :angryfire
But he does make for some amusing reading. :laugh:

 

[G4dude]

As a pilot for NJI, I don't have a proverbial dog in this hunt. However, I feel FLOPS will not survive this situation as it appears to be unfolding. If the owners come to NJA and Flex, hopefully y'all will be hired forthwith.
I do not like unions, but FLOPS management appears to be CLUELESS.

 

[HSDriver]

As a pilot for NJI, I don't have a proverbial dog in this hunt. However, I feel FLOPS will not survive this situation as it appears to be unfolding. If the owners come to NJA and Flex, hopefully y'all will be hired forthwith.
I do not like unions, but FLOPS management appears to be CLUELESS.

Apparently, according to MS our owners will be flying less and so they probably can't afford to go to netjets or any other fractional that pays industry standard wages.

 

[netjetwife]

... But, until the majority of the ranks understand something as simple as DONT WORK OVERTIME, we are F$%#ED. I don't understand it. Neither do I. How can any of the pilots want to do favors for a CEO that has proven he has no integrity and operates under a double standard that denies parity to Options pilots. If pilots weren't doing overtime FLOPS could not meet their crewing needs and planes would be parked. Isn't this happening now? Also, aren't pilots quitting left and right? Aren't most pilots in the job market avoiding the FLOPS who won't pay professional wages? Its like the majority of pilots dont care or something. I'm sure at times it does feel like that, but the very fact that a majority of the pilots voted to stand up for themselves says otherwise. Right now we are losing the battle because of a complete lack of solidarity. While there are still some Options pilots who need to invest in their future (pay dues) and insist on fair treatment and wages (refuse to do favors like OT) I do think you're failing to give your peers the credit they deserve. You are at the bargaining table making progress toward acquiring a contract. It is very obvious to management, that is why they are dragging their feet in negotiations. Wrong conclusion for their behavior. They stall because they think it is in their financial interest to do so, but that just shows flawed logic. Yes, from their perspective every day of delay the pilots lose out on the pay raise they have earned and management keeps the perks they enjoy without having to do their job by running the company efficiently. However, in reality, wasting training dollars because they have to replace pilots they have underpaid is a short sighted method doomed to failure. Parking planes because pilots won't come to fly them at sub-par wages actually hurts the business. Its pathetic. Agreed. The FLOPS are putting their egos above what is best for the good of the company and the right way to treat the pilots--professional wages commesirate with their skill and responsibilities. If we could get some solidarity we could bring this thing to a conclusion. But to me at least, it not looking good right now.
HS

Having been through this before, I have a more optimistic view and my conversations with NJA and Options pilots make me think you're seeing the darkness before the dawn. The Options pilots are on the right track and the message is getting through--hence the increase in FUD you're seeing. I recall the way most of the Options pilots posted and looked at the NJA folks in 2004. Very different from today. Now they remind me of the NJA posters during their contract dispute. That's a huge jump in solidarity that should not be overlooked. Sometimes in order to see how far you've really come you have to look back at where you started. Don't be discouraged, HS. Just dig in your heels and offer your fellow pilots encouragement and positive reinforcement in taking a stand for their future. From what I hear (and I have good hearing )there is light at the end of the tunnel.
Best Wishes!
NJW

 

[B19 Flyer]

Having been through this before, I have a more optimistic view and my conversations with NJA and Options pilots make me think you're seeing the darkness before the dawn. The Options pilots are on the right track and the message is getting through--hence the increase in FUD you're seeing. I recall the way most of the Options pilots posted and looked at the NJA folks in 2004. Very different from today. Now they remind me of the NJA posters during their contract dispute. That's a huge jump in solidarity that should not be overlooked. Sometimes in order to see how far you've really come you have to look back at where you started. Don't be discouraged, HS. Just dig in your heels and offer your fellow pilots encouragement and positive reinforcement in taking a stand for their future. From what I hear (and I have good hearing )there is light at the end of the tunnel.
Best Wishes!
NJW

Trust the union, just like she did.

She tells you to "dig in", yet when the union gave her husband a chance to stay at American Airlines, they bailed out and went to NJ.

She's been flaunting the quality of IBT and 1108, yet now that negotiations are over and 1108 has what they want, the want to get rid of IBT because the affiliation is too expensive.

She is a "fair weather" self proclaimed union expert. If the union doesn't suit her needs, she hooks on to whatever bandwagon is there and follows it.

She is a shining example of everything there is bad about unions.

 

[skanza]

You make me sick

Best time to check all 49 items:

1-Before a passenger leg

2-When aircraft is out of the country. Do a really good pre-flight in Bermuda or the Bahamas, that'll show them.

Why are these good times to check these things?! Is it because (as I have stated before) this is your way of crossing your arms and holding your breath like a child trying to get something? Answer the question this time! Don't tell me about not flying broken airplanes, safety or any of that other BS. Its obvious what your angle is: Union inspired operation disruption to prove your point. Just remember, if you close the doors, there will be nothing to negotiate! Get it?
Answer the question.

 

[netjetwife]

Skanza, it's too bad that you have a "shoot the messenger" attitude. Are you an Options pilot? Please share your company and position so that I can understand where you're coming from. You're sadly misguided to blame the frustrated, burned-out pilots for expressing justified anger over being paid sub-par wages. Yes, they're getting fed up busting butt while falling further behind the majority of their industry peers. And what reasonable person can blame them? After all, experts warn managers repeatedly about the repercussions of using sticks instead of carrots. Some don't need the warning (SWA); some make up for lost time after the light bulb goes off (NJA with IBB); but some have to be dragged kicking and screaming (MS is actually the brat here, not the underpaid/overworked pilots) to the bargaining table to settle things fairly.
Skanza, it sounds as though you've fallen into the FUD trap and bought into the fear and intimidation. Sad but not unheard of. Union busters use those despicable tactics to trip up the unwary and/or fearful by nature. The key to growth and harmony in the workplace has been explained over and over by experts--motivation. A fair contract will raise morale and induce pilots to go the extra mile. Management knows that and it gets pointed out repeatedly at the bargaining table so place blame accordingly for disruptions.

WARNING: LABOR STRIFE WILL BE ENCOUNTERED. FRAC PILOTS ARE PROFESSIONALS AND SHOULD BE COMPENSATED ACCORDINGLY BUT FLIGHT OPTIONS MANAGEMENT HAS THUS FAR REFUSED TO MEET INDUSTRY STANDARDS SO DISPLAYS OF LOW MORALE ARE UNAVOIDABLE.

 

[jetwash]

Just remember, if you close the doors, there will be nothing to negotiate! Get it?

At least there will be more job openings at Netjets that pay a real wage. So who cares what happens to FLOPS, it seem management doesn't.

 

[Galaxy]

Why are these good times to check these things?! Is it because (as I have stated before) this is your way of crossing your arms and holding your breath like a child trying to get something? Answer the question this time! Don't tell me about not flying broken airplanes, safety or any of that other BS. Its obvious what your angle is: Union inspired operation disruption to prove your point. Just remember, if you close the doors, there will be nothing to negotiate! Get it?
Answer the question.

You want the TRUTH? You can't handle the TRUTH!
Lets face it..The days of good ole Uncle Ken are long gone. We all admit it that we were carrying non-safety of flight items till we hit a MX base. We even got questioned by the Feds on how the FLOPS airplanes mysteriously break in MX bases. I believe we did it to help the company out-you know save money and get the job done. I look back now and see how it did help but was it right? No- but it happens at a lot of 91 depts and many many 135 and even some smaller frax to this day. Things changed for the company when Ken who was a pilot knew who the face of the company was-The Pilots. He kept us happy by being the highest paid frax pilots-for a while....Then came the next two losers who focused on numbers instead of people.
Once the things that mattered most to me -pay and QOL changed-I changed with it. I stopped then and there carrying anything-long before the union came here. Then some loser in a glass cubicle in Cleveland came up with a tier system-instead of getting pissed off-I just got better at my job. With each jab the company gave me I just became a master at crawling around and finding every detail on the plane I fly. Then they started to give me hours on end to look for them prior to a flight. I am just doing my job-are you doing yours?
So it is not a child's tantrum as you would put it.. This has been a slow learning process for all of us. What have you learned from it? I love these lists the guys put out because it makes me proud to the level of detail I have gotton to know the planes. I check it thoroughly every day before and after flights. It breaks where it breaks-it it breaks in the Bahamas-so be it not my problem-thats what MX is for. Let them figure it out.

As for closing the doors--If MS can not run a profitable business and pay his employees fair standard wages then yea-we should close the doors. It doesn't break my heart one bit. If FLOPS really is broke and can not pay--fine-just show the Union the books to prove it. This is the same crap NJA cried until the came close to closing the doors then alakazam! they settle a contract and make record profits and never showed the books to anyone. It's all BS-MS-Pay up or Get out!

Does that answer your question?

 

[Whoosh!]

Why are these good times to check these things?! Is it because ......... Just remember, if you close the doors, there will be nothing to negotiate! Get it?
Answer the question.

WTF is wrong with you d1ck lick? Gone to too many B19 sausage parties apparently.

 

[skanza]

At least there will be more job openings at Netjets that pay a real wage. So who cares what happens to FLOPS, it seem management doesn't.

Well, plenty of folks do care. Just because you don't, doesn't make it absolute. I don't understand what you mean by "mangagment doesn't" either. Do you have examples? Good, provable examples?

 

[Hobbes]

I don't care. I would rather see Flight Options go out of business than go through another two to three years of this piss poor backwards management and support. Do you hear me? The sooner we can get to the point of closing the doors, the sooner the eventual outcome to this stupid fight will become clear. Let's get on with our lives. With or without Flight Options as a part of it, it no longer makes any difference to me.

 

[Frac Cap]

I don't understand what you mean by "management doesn't" either. Do you have examples? Good, provable examples?

Hey, I do. I was surprised to learn that NJ pilots can see every empty leg on their BB. This allows them to see when the plans may be falling apart and intervene. Either by getting a free ride instead of having the company pay for airlines, or waste of numerous other kinds. I have asked long ago as far back as Nahill why we don't have this money saving information at our disposal. All he said was we are working on doing just that.

Well 5 years later and we still don't have that. I guess management doesn't care to give us the tools to see when they screw up and to possibly be able to step in to correct it.

That is just one example off the top of my head. So sit down and smoke another one with B-19, that is if you are not one in the same.

 

[netjetwife]

There are two very good examples of management teams that care--NJA and CS. Both have raised wages pro-actively to keep the pilots from leaving for more lucrative positions. In sharp contrast, FltOps upper management has failed to address the high attrition rate and recruitment problems caused by sub-par wages and low morale. Thus, judging by their lack of action, it is fair to say that the FLOPS don't care, especially relative to the compensation and work rules enjoyed by the majority of frac pilots.

FRAC PILOTS ARE PROFESSIONALS RESPONSIBLE FOR LIVES AND SHOULD BE COMPENSATED ACCORDINGLY

 

[B19 Flyer]

FRAC PILOTS ARE PROFESSIONALS RESPONSIBLE FOR LIVES AND SHOULD BE COMPENSATED ACCORDINGLY

Another stupid, ignorant and one sided quote by the know-it-all pilot's wife that has no respect for non-pilot aviation professionals.

Just for the record NJW, ALL aviation employees are professionals and should be compensated accordingly, NOT JUST PILOTS.

PILOTS are NOT THE ONLY ONES that have invested in their careers. Many of us have serious financial investments in our careers and carry more than just a pilot certificate and college degree yet choose to remain on the ground. Without NON-PILOT employees to ensure the air carrier operates safely, your husband couldn't take his volunteer paycheck from the union while others do the work and produce revenue.

UNIONS threaten the well being of NON-PILOT employees.

You continually show nothing but disrespect for all non-pilot employees at NJ, other fracs and the aviation industry. Disgusting.

 

[B19 Flyer]

The sooner we can get to the point of closing the doors, the sooner the eventual outcome to this stupid fight will become clear. Let's get on with our lives.

When a union is involved, it's always a stupid fight.

Congrads, that's the first smart thing I've ever seen you write. You got what you asked for!

 

[B19 Flyer]

Why are these good times to check these things?! Is it because (as I have stated before) this is your way of crossing your arms and holding your breath like a child trying to get something? Answer the question this time! Don't tell me about not flying broken airplanes, safety or any of that other BS. Its obvious what your angle is: Union inspired operation disruption to prove your point. Just remember, if you close the doors, there will be nothing to negotiate! Get it?
Answer the question.

They can't answer any more than any other union can. That's why the precedent was set with Judge Bertelsman.

They will bumble, use the safety statement and go out or their way to ground airplanes based on what the union considers "legal". Only after the court order is issued will they stop with the nonsense.

_____________________________________

http://www.airlinesafety.com/articles/ComairInjunction.htm

FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF KENTUCKY​

AT COVINGTON​

COMAIR, INC., Case No. 99-250​

Plaintiff, Judge Bertelsman
v.
AIR LINE PILOTS
ASSOCIATION, INTERNATIONAL,
Defendant.

PRELIMINARY INJUNCTION​

Upon the reading of the Complaint, the memorandum of law in support of COMAIR Inc.’s motion and affidavits in support of that motion, and upon consideration of the proceedings heretofore had, this Court specifically finds as follows:
That the Defendant Air Line Pilots Association, International ("ALPA") is the collective bargaining representative of the pilots employed by Plaintiff COMAIR, Inc. ("COMAIR").
COMAIR is a common carrier by air subject to the Railway Labor Act, 45 U.S.C. 145 et seq. (the "RLA" to the "ACT").
That there exists a collective bargaining agreement between the parties.
That the parties currently are engaged in collective bargaining for a successor collective agreement, pursuant to Section 6 of the RLA, 45 U.S.C. 156.
The RLA requires the parties to observe the status quo during collective bargaining until and unless the parties exhaust the negotiation, mediation and arbitration mechanisms established by the RLA for the resolution of "major disputes."
Those processes have not been exhausted.
Notwithstanding its statutory duty to maintain the status quo, Defendant ALPA and its members have violated the status quo by the manner and means in which its members have written-up mechanical deficiencies.
Pursuant to Consolidated Rail Corp. v. Railway Labor Executives’ Ass’n., 491 U.S. 299, 303 (1989), "district courts have subject matter jurisdiction to enjoin violation of the status quo pending completion of the required procedures, without the customary showing of irreparable injury." Rather, it is sufficient for the plaintiff to demonstrate that the defendant has violated the status quo prior to the exhaustion of the RLA’s procedures for the resolution of major disputes.
Even if Plaintiff were required to demonstrate that the traditional equitable factors were met prior to the issuance of injunctive relief, that burden has been met, inasmuch as Plaintiff has suffered from irreparable harm, and will continue to suffer irreparable harm, unless an injunction is issued. Moreover, it has demonstrated a likelihood that it will succeed on the merits, and that the public interest will be served by the issuance of injunctive relief. Finally, the balance of hardships tips in its favor, inasmuch as the injunction sought by Plaintiff COMAIR does no more than require Defendant ALPA to comply with the mandates of the RLA.
WHEREFORE, for the reasons set forth herein, and as set forth more fully in Plaintiff’s Complaint, motion, memorandum in support of its motion, and supporting affidavits, Plaintiff is hereby granted a PRELIMINARY INJUNCTION.
IT IS THEREFORE ORDERED that ALPA, and its officers, members, representatives, attorneys and agents, and the airline pilots employed by COMAIR, and all persons acting in concert with, through or under them and each of them, are hereby restrained in the manner set forth below:
From calling, permitting, authorizing, encouraging, participating in, approving of, or continuing any disruption, curtailment, or restriction of normal airline operations or procedures, including but not limited to improper maintenance write-ups, slowdowns, or other work stoppages and all acts in furtherance or in support thereof:
AND IT IS FURTHER ORDERED:
That ALPA, its officers, members, representatives, attorneys and agents take all steps in their power to prevent said disruption of normal airline operations or procedures from continuing, including but not limited to, the following:
instruct all pilots to refrain from improper maintenance write-ups, work slowdowns, or any other disruption of COMAIR’s flight operations, and provide COMAIR a copy of all such instructions.
notify, by the most expeditious means possible, all ALPA-represented pilots employed by COMAIR of the issuance, contents and meaning of this preliminary injunction, and produce a copy of all such messages to COMAIR.
that the notice described in (b) above include a directive from ALPA to all COMAIR pilots to cease and desist upon pain of fine, suspension, or other sanction from improper maintenance write-ups, or any other disruption of flight operations, and to cease and desist all exhortations or communications encouraging the same.
that ALPA post the notice described in (b) above to its Internet web site, and provide a copy of the notice to COMAIR.
that ALPA include the contents of the notice described in (b) in a recorded telephone hotline message to all COMAIR pilots, and provide a copy of the message to COMAIR.
that ALPA report by 1200 noon on December 22, 1999, by sworn affidavit, the methods used to effect the notice described in (b) above, with a copy to COMAIR and the Court.
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that a bond is hereby set in this matter in the amount of $25, 000 to be deposited with the Clerk of Courts.
SO ORDERED this 21st day of December, 1999, 5:45 p.m. E.S.T.
/s/ William C. Bertelsman
U.S. DISTRICT JUDGE

 

[netjetwife]

You want the TRUTH? You can't handle the TRUTH! ...

Galaxy, that's one of my husband's favorite movie lines. Good intro to a very true post!

Hobbes, you're absolutely right that every pilot waiting for a fair contract puts his/her life on hold. Families aren't started or expanded; saving for retirement, kids going to college, home purchase or remodeling, etc isn't possible; and big ticket purchases must be postponed. Unfortunately, you guys know exactly what I'm talking about. Every underpaid pilot has a list ...

I'm with you, FC. The FLOPs have wasted enough time already and every day of delay just pushes pilots past the point of caring. Here's a newsflash for the FLOPs-- respect and loyalty are earned by treating workers in the same fashion. It's time to get serious at the bargaining table!

 

[dime line]

Another stupid, ignorant and one sided quote by the know-it-all pilot's wife that has

no respect for non-pilot aviation professionals.

Just for the record NJW, ALL aviation employees are professionals and should be compensated accordingly, NOT JUST PILOTS.

PILOTS are NOT THE ONLY ONES that have invested in their careers. Many of us have serious financial investments in our careers and carry more than just a pilot certificate and college degree yet choose to remain on the ground. Without NON-PILOT employees to ensure the air carrier operates safely, your husband couldn't take his volunteer paycheck from the union while others do the work and produce revenue.

UNIONS threaten the well being of NON-PILOT employees.

You continually show nothing but disrespect for all non-pilot employees at NJ, other fracs and the aviation industry. Disgusting.

No we don't, this is a PILOT board not a MX board, so no I don't care

 

[skanza]

And who decided this is a pilot board? And are you sure he means MX? What about engineers, trainers, anylists, and safety personel to name a few. All of these professionals along with the pilots contribute to the operation and are required or no one flies! I think you're being a little selfish...

 

[Whoosh!]

Sausage parties? Who's B19 anyways? Dude, you comment has nothing to do with my post.

If you're posting in these threads and you still don't know who B19 is, you've got problems.

My comment has everything to do with your post. Either you're David Marker or you and B19 are hittin' it. When was the last time you got something for free? What makes you think FLOPS' mgmt is going to give out industry standard treatement without a fight. The never have, still don't, and have recently indicated they have no intention of doing so willingly! Not hard to understand why guys are intentionally fighting for what is right.... fighting hard. They'll either win or SHUT this POS DOWN. Frankly, if FLOPS can't keep up with the industry, close the god dam doors and give the market share to those who can actaully provide quality treatment to both its external and internal customers.

 

[fischman]

This is FUD.

They can't answer any more than any other union can. That's why the precedent was set with Judge Bertelsman.

They will bumble, use the safety statement and go out or their way to ground airplanes based on what the union considers "legal". Only after the court order is issued will they stop with the nonsense.

_____________________________________

http://www.airlinesafety.com/articles/ComairInjunction.htm

FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF KENTUCKY​

AT COVINGTON​

COMAIR, INC., Case No. 99-250​

Plaintiff, Judge Bertelsman
v.
AIR LINE PILOTS
ASSOCIATION, INTERNATIONAL,
Defendant.

PRELIMINARY INJUNCTION​

Upon the reading of the Complaint, the memorandum of law in support of COMAIR Inc.’s motion and affidavits in support of that motion, and upon consideration of the proceedings heretofore had, this Court specifically finds as follows:
That the Defendant Air Line Pilots Association, International ("ALPA") is the collective bargaining representative of the pilots employed by Plaintiff COMAIR, Inc. ("COMAIR").
COMAIR is a common carrier by air subject to the Railway Labor Act, 45 U.S.C. 145 et seq. (the "RLA" to the "ACT").
That there exists a collective bargaining agreement between the parties.
That the parties currently are engaged in collective bargaining for a successor collective agreement, pursuant to Section 6 of the RLA, 45 U.S.C. 156.
The RLA requires the parties to observe the status quo during collective bargaining until and unless the parties exhaust the negotiation, mediation and arbitration mechanisms established by the RLA for the resolution of "major disputes."
Those processes have not been exhausted.
Notwithstanding its statutory duty to maintain the status quo, Defendant ALPA and its members have violated the status quo by the manner and means in which its members have written-up mechanical deficiencies.
Pursuant to Consolidated Rail Corp. v. Railway Labor Executives’ Ass’n., 491 U.S. 299, 303 (1989), "district courts have subject matter jurisdiction to enjoin violation of the status quo pending completion of the required procedures, without the customary showing of irreparable injury." Rather, it is sufficient for the plaintiff to demonstrate that the defendant has violated the status quo prior to the exhaustion of the RLA’s procedures for the resolution of major disputes.
Even if Plaintiff were required to demonstrate that the traditional equitable factors were met prior to the issuance of injunctive relief, that burden has been met, inasmuch as Plaintiff has suffered from irreparable harm, and will continue to suffer irreparable harm, unless an injunction is issued. Moreover, it has demonstrated a likelihood that it will succeed on the merits, and that the public interest will be served by the issuance of injunctive relief. Finally, the balance of hardships tips in its favor, inasmuch as the injunction sought by Plaintiff COMAIR does no more than require Defendant ALPA to comply with the mandates of the RLA.
WHEREFORE, for the reasons set forth herein, and as set forth more fully in Plaintiff’s Complaint, motion, memorandum in support of its motion, and supporting affidavits, Plaintiff is hereby granted a PRELIMINARY INJUNCTION.
IT IS THEREFORE ORDERED that ALPA, and its officers, members, representatives, attorneys and agents, and the airline pilots employed by COMAIR, and all persons acting in concert with, through or under them and each of them, are hereby restrained in the manner set forth below:
From calling, permitting, authorizing, encouraging, participating in, approving of, or continuing any disruption, curtailment, or restriction of normal airline operations or procedures, including but not limited to improper maintenance write-ups, slowdowns, or other work stoppages and all acts in furtherance or in support thereof:
AND IT IS FURTHER ORDERED:
That ALPA, its officers, members, representatives, attorneys and agents take all steps in their power to prevent said disruption of normal airline operations or procedures from continuing, including but not limited to, the following:
instruct all pilots to refrain from improper maintenance write-ups, work slowdowns, or any other disruption of COMAIR’s flight operations, and provide COMAIR a copy of all such instructions.
notify, by the most expeditious means possible, all ALPA-represented pilots employed by COMAIR of the issuance, contents and meaning of this preliminary injunction, and produce a copy of all such messages to COMAIR.
that the notice described in (b) above include a directive from ALPA to all COMAIR pilots to cease and desist upon pain of fine, suspension, or other sanction from improper maintenance write-ups, or any other disruption of flight operations, and to cease and desist all exhortations or communications encouraging the same.
that ALPA post the notice described in (b) above to its Internet web site, and provide a copy of the notice to COMAIR.
that ALPA include the contents of the notice described in (b) in a recorded telephone hotline message to all COMAIR pilots, and provide a copy of the message to COMAIR.
that ALPA report by 1200 noon on December 22, 1999, by sworn affidavit, the methods used to effect the notice described in (b) above, with a copy to COMAIR and the Court.
IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that a bond is hereby set in this matter in the amount of $25, 000 to be deposited with the Clerk of Courts.
SO ORDERED this 21st day of December, 1999, 5:45 p.m. E.S.T.
/s/ William C. Bertelsman
U.S. DISTRICT JUDGE

Don't do ANYTHING illegal FOR or AGAINST the company.

Be professional.

 

[netjetwife]

Looking at the ads on the board you get the idea that FlightInfo and their sponsors anticipate the majority of the members will be current or future pilots discussing the current events in their career. Because of that common understanding I felt that it was important (and the right thing to do) to make my (spouse) status clearly known from my very first post.

Skanza, from the tone of your comment it sounds as though perhaps you belong to one of the non-pilot groups listed? Could you please share your position and employer so that posters/readers can better understand your perspective? I asked previously but perhaps it escaped your notice? Thanks, Netjetwife

PS We don't normally discuss the plight of all the part-time single parents married to a frac pilot, but I don't assume that those posting here aren't thankful and supportive of the contribution made by the frac family members. Skanza, I think you're being a bit presumptuous and unfair...

 

[skanza]

My name is...

Skanza, from the tone of your comment it sounds as though perhaps you belong to one of the non-pilot groups listed? Could you please share your position and employer so that posters/readers can better understand your perspective? I asked previously but perhaps it escaped your notice? Thanks, Netjetwife

PS We don't normally discuss the plight of all the part-time single parents married to a frac pilot, but I don't assume that those posting here aren't thankful and supportive of the contribution made by the frac family members. Skanza, I think you're being a bit presumptuous and unfair...

Yeah right, as soon as everyone else here identifies themselves. (Which will never happen. Everyone here, including me, is hiding their identity behind their silly username.) No, I'm not part of the non-pilot group, but does that mean that I can't acknowledge or defend them? And who's to say you are really a NetJet Wife? Nobody knows, and frankly it doesn't matter. I'm just trying to shed light on the selfish, greed filled narcissism that seems to run rampid with these pro union posters. I'm also presenting a different point of view that a lot of people don't want to admit is possible, or are scared of it and respond with gunfire. That's all.

 

[skanza]

Either I'm B19 or who?

If you're posting in these threads and you still don't know who B19 is, you've got problems.

My comment has everything to do with your post. Either you're David Marker or you and B19 are hittin' it. When was the last time you got something for free? What makes you think FLOPS' mgmt is going to give out industry standard treatement without a fight. The never have, still don't, and have recently indicated they have no intention of doing so willingly! Not hard to understand why guys are intentionally fighting for what is right.... fighting hard. They'll either win or SHUT this POS DOWN. Frankly, if FLOPS can't keep up with the industry, close the god dam doors and give the market share to those who can actaully provide quality treatment to both its external and internal customers.

Nice, I laugh. Keep it up!

 

[dime line]

Yeah right, as soon as everyone else here identifies themselves. (Which will never happen. Everyone here, including me, is hiding their identity behind

their silly username

.) No, I'm not part of the non-pilot group, but does that mean that I can't acknowledge or defend them? And who's to say you are really a NetJet Wife? Nobody knows, and frankly it doesn't matter. I'm just trying to shed light on the selfish, greed filled narcissism that seems to run rampid with these pro union posters. I'm also presenting a different point of view that a lot of people don't want to admit is possible, or are scared of it and respond with gunfire. That's all.

Silly hu? Go and tell Sheringa who you are and see if you have a job tomorrow, wait you will have a job, I will not

 

[Whoosh!]

Nice, I laugh. Keep it up!

You say "who?" and then this... it's not that funny. However, it is funny how that's all you find to address out of my post though.

 

[fischman]

And who's to say you are really a NetJet Wife? Nobody knows, and frankly it doesn't matter.

She is a NetJets pilot's wife.

Aparently my name is "Nobody" because I know.

 

[Fozzy]

The turning point

I don't care. I would rather see Flight Options go out of business than go through another two to three years of this piss poor backwards management and support. Do you hear me? The sooner we can get to the point of closing the doors, the sooner the eventual outcome to this stupid fight will become clear. Let's get on with our lives. With or without Flight Options as a part of it, it no longer makes any difference to me.

Now when the majority feel that way you will have accomplished something.
I remember when I came to that point a few years ago. Nothing to loose. Very liberating.

 

[netjetwife]

Yeah right, as soon as everyone else here identifies themselves. (Which will never happen. Everyone here, including me, is hiding their identity behind their silly username.) I didn't ask your name, just your position and employer--commonly given info here. No, I'm not part of the non-pilot group, Are you a pilot then? Currently flying for----? but does that mean that I can't acknowledge or defend them? Certainly not, but it isn't fair to assign selfish and/or disrespect motives to a poster who doesn't mention other groups in a discussion with fellow pilots. And who's to say you are really a NetJet Wife? Many of the pilots who post here. Nobody knows, Another wrong assumption... and frankly it doesn't matter. I'm just trying to shed light on the selfish, greed filled narcissism that seems to run rampid with these pro union posters. Another word-twister who somehow feels entitled to speak for others but insists that he be allowed to speak for himself.... I'm also presenting a different point of view that a lot of people don't want to admit is possible, or are scared of it and respond with gunfire. That's all.

I post here as a minority, but I do it respectfully and don't shove my words into another poster's mouth. Scared? Responding w/gunfire? That's not what I see. To me they look like fed-up pilots tired of wading thru FUD and insults to discuss directly related, current events in their industry.

Skanza, what gives you the right to proclaim union supporters hold selfish, greedy and narcissistic viewpoints? Your false allegation that such an attitude runs rampant on the board isn't backed up with facts. Factually speaking, this is a frac forum and the majority of frac pilots are unionized. Thus, it's logical (not selfish or egotistical) that Union news will be discussed regularly and there are important things going on right now. (I dare say AIN would agree). It must be noted that many respectful discussions take place here between non-union and union pilots, discussing current events that affect the entire industry. Furthermore, NJ pilots regularly take the time to answer the same questions about NJ over and over in a friendly gesture of sharing info to other pilots--all without asking their union viewpoint.