Future pilot shortage...

[Fly-By-Cable]

And a bigger airplane is harder to fly? I disagree, compared to GA aircraft the automation and warning systems that the modern crew fly today is leap years ahead of GA pilots who have to try and find that little speck in the sky that's traffic coming towards them. Ever have a back fire or panel outage while at nite in a single engine aircraft? After the blood returns to your brain from your toes u first try to remember if you are paid up on your life insurance and then work the problem!!! I've flown with a c cell flashlight held between my ear and shoulder once or twice(eventually bought a headlamp) for 2 hrs flying back home from a nite flight?

Those war stories wont impress anyone here. I've flown GA aircraft across the country and back, lost my only engine on an ILS in actual, lost comm in actual in unfamiliar airspace, and certainly I've had an instrument panel lighting problem almost every night flight. Now until YOU shoot an LDA into DCA during thunderstorms and moderate turbulance hand flying all the way down with the autopilot unable to maintain course with a 25G40kt crosswind, oh and not at 85kts either, then don't pretend you know what you're talking about. In fact I can't stand passenagers like that. "I have a private pilots licence and an instrument rating, and there's never a wheels up time when I fly ifr between Ewn and Fay. Why is there a delay to clt?"

 

[waka]

Those war stories wont impress anyone here. I've flown GA aircraft across the country and back, lost my only engine on an ILS in actual, lost comm in actual in unfamiliar airspace, and certainly I've had an instrument panel lighting problem almost every night flight. Now until YOU shoot an LDA into DCA during thunderstorms and moderate turbulance hand flying all the way down with the autopilot unable to maintain course with a 25G40kt crosswind, oh and not at 85kts either, then don't pretend you know what you're talking about. In fact I can't stand passenagers like that. "I have a private pilots licence and an instrument rating, and there's never a wheels up time when I fly ifr between Ewn and Fay. Why is there a delay to clt?"

Who's trying to impress by telling war stories now? Remember, GA aircraft includes 135 and I've done both 121 (hand flown in bad wx) and 135. Single pilot 135 was definitely more challenging.

 

[Fly-By-Cable]

Who's trying to impress by telling war stories now? Remember, GA aircraft includes 135 and I've done both 121 (hand flown in bad wx) and 135. Single pilot 135 was definitely more challenging.

I'm not trying to impress anyone, my post was meant to show the poster that his experience with issues in a cockpit is shared and exceeded by almost all professional pilots. Thus making it irrelevant to this discussion.

 

[Fly-By-Cable]

First off.... single pilot IFR in a twin piston turbo with no autopilot is WAY more difficult than flying around in an RJ or a citation. you guys are nuts!

Yes. It does take some coordination. So I'll amend my assertion and say '*almost* any bar tard with a credit card can get a commercial pilot's license and a job at a regional airline'

The free market has set my salary at close to 100K a year with 10 weeks of leave. That's because what I do is REALLY hard and not many people can do it.

Flying is more difficult than say... attending to a parking lot. But it is insufficiently hard to require decent pay in the free market.

Just is what it is....

The difference between you and someone who knows what theyre talking about is experience. You have clearley not yet been in a situation that made you be thankful to be alive, and angry when you get your paycheck. Stick around long enough and it'll happen. Due to advance tools now available to pilots and dependable engines, it may take 20 years, but non the less it'll happen.

 

[pilotyip]

The difference between you and someone who knows what theyre talking about is experience. You have clearley not yet been in a situation that made you be thankful to be alive, and angry when you get your paycheck. Stick around long enough and it'll happen. Due to advance tools now available to pilots and dependable engines, it may take 20 years, but non the less it'll happen.

Been doin this for 40+ years, I haven't gotten there yet either

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Sad but true!

When it was old steam gauges and you had to be careful not to nuke an engine on a regular basis while hand flying, you really had skill.

I wonder how Fate is the Hunter would read today if Gann was a RJ new hire from a bridge program.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Oh yeah... lots of d!ck swinging going around here. LULZ.

 

[cynic]

The difference between you and someone who knows what theyre talking about is experience. You have clearley not yet been in a situation that made you be thankful to be alive, and angry when you get your paycheck. Stick around long enough and it'll happen. Due to advance tools now available to pilots and dependable engines, it may take 20 years, but non the less it'll happen.

No, I'm a pretty good pilot so I've not inadvertently flown into a really bad situation and as I get older and acquire more experience; that is less likely to happen, not more.

I'm also paid really well, I have a pension and I'll actually retire when I'm 55. That is because the work I do is exceedingly complex and difficult. So much so that few people can do it. Unlike flying, which is more fun but doesn't pay well because it is easy and as I keep saying...

almost any bard tard with a credit card can do.

 

[bri5150]

No. I agree with Cynic. I think that you're giving pilots too much credit. Sure, much of your list is true, but just not even close to the extent that you're suggesting. Only 50%? of 20 to 40 year olds can pass a checkride? It's way more than that. In my instructing days, I signed off many commercial candidates and didn't have one failure.....and it was under pt 61 at a mom and pop FBO.

Given the way our "knowledge" tests are designed, study is based more on passing the test versus actual application of knowledge. Heck, just look at all of the so-called study guides....just questions, answers and brief explanations of answers.

As for flight training, people can train to proficiency as long as they have money......lather, rinse, repeat and most will eventually learn to fly well enough to pass a checkride. As for the oral, instructors tend to design their prepping of the student for the oral part of the checkride to the specific examiner.

Upon obtaining a Private, Commercial, CFI, etc., a pilot doesn't know diddly squat. That's why these certificates are considered to be "licenses to learn."

It just isn't that difficult to obtain one's certificates.

Again, I don't think that pilots are god gift to man and only the select few can possibly do what we do. I am going to make some numbers up, but I think they are probably pretty close. 10% of the demographic we are talking about are mentally or physically handicapped to the point they can't even try or can't get a medical. 10% are so afraid of airplanes they won't even set foot in a single engine GA aircraft (might even be higher). Another 8% don't speak English, which will disqualify them immediately. So, we are up to 28% that can't even get in the aircraft to try. Now add in those that can't understand the physics or don't have the hand eye coordination. 50% might not be the right number, but it is no where near "any tard can get a commercial".

 

[Fly-By-Cable]

No, I'm a pretty good pilot so I've not inadvertently flown into a really bad situation and as I get older and acquire more experience; that is less likely to happen, not more.

I'm also paid really well, I have a pension and I'll actually retire when I'm 55. That is because the work I do is exceedingly complex and difficult. So much so that few people can do it. Unlike flying, which is more fun but doesn't pay well because it is easy and as I keep saying...

almost any bard tard with a credit card can do.

Like I said

 

[Fly-By-Cable]

[Ok "pretty good pilot who wouldn't fly into a bad situation". Found this interesting story on another board. I'm sure the delta captain wrote this because it was such an easy day. Maybe you and your 1500 hrs in light twins can contact this guy and tell him where he went wrong. http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/major/57933-dal-pirep-japan.html

 

[bri5150]

[Ok "pretty good pilot who wouldn't fly into a bad situation". Found this interesting story on another board. I'm sure the delta captain wrote this because it was such an easy day. http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/major/57933-dal-pirep-japan.html

removed

 

[Jetjockey]

No, I'm a pretty good pilot so I've not inadvertently flown into a really bad situation and as I get older and acquire more experience; that is less likely to happen, not more.

I'm also paid really well, I have a pension and I'll actually retire when I'm 55. That is because the work I do is exceedingly complex and difficult. So much so that few people can do it. Unlike flying, which is more fun but doesn't pay well because it is easy and as I keep saying...

almost any bard tard with a credit card can do.

So enlighten us with your extraordinary career and the job only you can do? I'd love to hear this. Ironic you come to a pilot forum to tell us how easy our job is.

You sound like some disgruntled, know it all pompous geek teacher.

 

[propilot]

First off.... single pilot IFR in a twin piston turbo with no autopilot is WAY more difficult than flying around in an RJ or a citation. you guys are nuts!

Yes. It does take some coordination. So I'll amend my assertion and say '*almost* any bar tard with a credit card can get a commercial pilot's license and a job at a regional airline'

The free market has set my salary at close to 100K a year with 10 weeks of leave. That's because what I do is REALLY hard and not many people can do it.

Flying is more difficult than say... attending to a parking lot. But it is insufficiently hard to require decent pay in the free market.

Just is what it is....

My wife makes nearly 100K sitting in an office. If you think 100K is going to make you rich, your naive about a lot of things, including how impossibly difficult your job is. By the way, I make nearly 100k and only work 6 months a year...

 

[propilot]

You have no right to bitch because you took a low paying job. You ARE the problem. RIGHT this second... you are why the pay is so low.

Now if flying airplanes were hard (like building scientific applications on a super computer... that's what I do ) then you would be making a whole lot more money. But it's not and anything with the intellectual capacity of say... an advanced chimp can get through the training so there you are.

WOW, your a computer engineer/programmer/whatever. Congratulations. No one else will ever be able to replace you! Get a life...

 

[wrxpilot]

I think a large percentage of the adult population can meet the minimum standards of a commercial checkride. But the commercial checkride is merely an entry level point at which the real learning for a burgeoning professional pilot takes place.

It is a much smaller percentage of this population that I would consider to be "good" pilots. Those that have that rare combination of skill, knowledge, aptitude, judgment, attention to detail, and the ability to work under pressure that comprise a competent professional pilot (the one that you'd trust to fly your family on a crappy night). Extra points if they are also able to effectively teach/mentor other pilots they fly with. Yes, some of that is developed as they gain experience. But let's be honest... It's not something most people are blessed with having the ability to cultivate.

Obviously there are varying degrees of standards that some companies have regarding pilot applicants. Some are apparently ok with the absolute minimum skill set and aptitude, while others have much higher requirements.

Most of the time the lowest common denominator can skate through without bending any metal. With modern aircraft designs and technology, combined with rigorous company procedures that spell out exactly what to do for most routine ops, things usually stay pretty safe. But then things happen like United Express 6291, Eagle Flight 3379, United Express (Mesa) 5733, Colgan 3407, etc. These incidents clearly demonstrate that NOT everybody is cracked up to be a pilot, and really bad ******************** sometimes happens when they're allowed to anyway.

Clearly we, as a society, have demonstrated that having only high quality pilots is not worth the cost when it comes to our regional airline industry. Perhaps that's how it always will be.

 

[J.Otto]

[Ok "pretty good pilot who wouldn't fly into a bad situation". Found this interesting story on another board. I'm sure the delta captain wrote this because it was such an easy day. Maybe you and your 1500 hrs in light twins can contact this guy and tell him where he went wrong. http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/major/57933-dal-pirep-japan.html

that was good story.

flying is the easy part - having good judgment is not universally as easy for most. Hope that guy enjoyed a kobe and a beer after that!

 

[Jetjockey]

I certainly agree $100,000 is not rich. That's middle class if you ask me. I have a longtime close friend who is the head honcho of a hedge fund company. He makes double that amount....IN A MONTH. Sometimes even more. Now that's rich.

Is he Einstein smart....nope. Is he shrewd, you bet your ass he is. Does he work hard? I don't think he ever leaves work. He is constantly taking calls, emails, etc. He thinks I'm wasting time playing with airplanes. He has told me numerous times to come work for him. It's exciting, takes a lot of dedication and time, but it is definitely not for me. Same answer I always give. I like flying airplanes for a living.

 

[Jetjockey]

Cynic is a computer geek??? How funny, his job is probably on the list to be outsourced to India. There are about 100,000 guys over there who have very advanced degrees from top American Universities willing to do those "exceedingly complex and difficult" jobs as he puts for less than 1/10 pf the pay.

 

[Jetjockey]

big secret, jets are the easiest airplanes to fly, one lever, no shortage of power, no p-factor, someone else to do all the hard stuff like talking on the radio, and the bigger the better.

I said bigger than general aviation aircraft..nothing about jet powered. Props, especially big radial are way harder to manage. I'm talking bigger, faster, heavier machines compared to a Seneca that the brain surgeon likes to compare his experiences to.