Future AMR/B6 timeline....

[BeachBummer]

Plus, that is in direct contradiction with McCaskill/Bond. Court Fight!!!

There would end up being some kind of compromise.

The only court fight that would happen involving McB, would be if they granted single carrier status. There will be no fight, no ground to stand on if they buy us/we buy them when both parties are operating under umbrella holdings. Assets can be xfrd back and forth.

This is why single carrier status was not even applied for until after the SWA/AT pilots came to an agreement.

In a TE if your haning your carreer on this law, you should make a plan B.

While I would hope that the "Dave" and the mass retirements at AA or any other would help us out, I fear that we would be on the recieving end of any hose job.

just my thought on the situation. ok now, ready fire aim LOL!

 

[BeachBummer]

B6 can always just bid for select assets only. Similar to the WN ATA deal.

There will be no bidding on AA's assets. This BK is a restructure. ATA's BK was full on meltdown. AA has 4billion in the bank. ATA barely had enough cash on hand to cover payroll.

AA will come out and absorb or merge or be absorbed in entirety by something. It's the airline way. Just look at the most recent all preceded by a BK, AWA/US... NWA/DAL... AA/TWA... the list goes on and on and on. When in bk misery loves company, bring some one else into the party.

 

[Fins Up]

The only court fight that would happen involving McB, would be if they granted single carrier status. There will be no fight, no ground to stand on if they buy us/we buy them when both parties are operating under umbrella holdings. Assets can be xfrd back and forth.

This is why single carrier status was not even applied for until after the SWA/AT pilots came to an agreement.

In a TE if your haning your carreer on this law, you should make a plan B.

While I would hope that the "Dave" and the mass retirements at AA or any other would help us out, I fear that we would be on the recieving end of any hose job.

just my thought on the situation. ok now, ready fire aim LOL!

Also, McB says company leadership can "negotiate" on behalf of the pilot group if they want to. I find it hard to believe they would fight tooth and nail for us while they're trying to work out their own sweet deals.

 

[UpNDownGuy]

It's actually quite simple. Look at M/A history. If you use the 'career expectations' model, which would actually be best for us, you see that AA has no comparable equipment in # of seats, A/C type, etc. Since no arbitrator would put any group of employees in smaller, lower paying equipment senior to those in larger, higher paying equipment, it's a no brainer.

It's like saying if AA bought Mesa, then the #1 RJ guy at Mesa gets equal seniority to the #1 777 captain at AA. Not gonna happen.

You would be wise to look at M & A history to see what we can expect. Even if we get pure DOH, the most junior pilot on AA's current on property list was hired considerably earlier then when B6 even started ops. DOH = staple.

It's a sad, sad fact, but that is what is going to happen, like it or not. The only thing a CBA will really do is allow Mcaskill/Bond to apply to the B6 pilot group, meaning we will be senior to all currently furloughed AA pilots. Which, in my opinion, won't matter because there won't be a furlough if they buy us anyway.

For those of you that think we will have a fighting chance against the APA I just shake my head. No arbitrator will give us the time of day, and the APA will keep the companies seperate ala USAir before they let one of our guys gain any seniority to any one of their guys. The best case wet dream scenario for us would be our guys getting intergrated captain/fo to all their MD80/737 guys. That ain't gonna happen, especially with the 190 guys.

Those that say it will be ugly are wrong. The APA will light us on fire and piss on the ashes, just like they did with the TWA guys. The only saving grace is the fact that in less than 20 years, pretty much their entire seniority list will be gone. Even if we get stapled, every B6 pilot that is left will be able to hold international widebody captain at some point. The junior guys like me will hold it for 10-15 years. That ain't so bad.

I say bring it on.

This is so stupid it actually makes my head hurt. You think an arbitrator would take JB's list, rearrange it so all 320 guys are senior to all 190 guys, then staple it to AA? Oww! Oww! So much pain...

Seniority is seniority. I'm a 190 CA that's senior to you, and after any merger, I'll still be senior to you.

 

[CapnVegetto]

This is so stupid it actually makes my head hurt. You think an arbitrator would take JB's list, rearrange it so all 320 guys are senior to all 190 guys, then staple it to AA? Oww! Oww! So much pain...

Seniority is seniority. I'm a 190 CA that's senior to you, and after any merger, I'll still be senior to you.

Learn to read, idiot.

I never said that I'd be senior to anybody. I'm saying SOME super senior captains MIGHT get a bit of integration. MAYBE.

I doubt it.


The APA will protect their own, as far as they are concerned, we can go to hell.

If AA buys us, you better get ready to be stapled. It's going to happen. I'll take it right now. I'll be a widebody captain for 20+ years thanks to retirements if there is a staple tomorrow. I'll take that.

 

[A350]

So in typical fashion.....it is all about you and less about everyone else?

Brilliant!

A350

 

[CapnVegetto]

Boy, that's rich.

You don't want to get into that debate with me, skippy.

 

[A350]

Wanna bet?

You opened your mouth. Lets hear it.

A350

 

[BeachBummer]

So in typical fashion.....it is all about you and less about everyone else?

Brilliant!

A350

He'll correct me if I'm wrong here. CaptVag's point is that should we get stapled, for those of us on the bottom of Jb's list it's not that bad of a deal. Those "Senior" bus drivers and what not that are hinging thier livley hood on the left seat are the one's that will get hit the hardest when McB does not apply to a TE. Thus showing his support for a union to help us protect the masses. Something like that?

So, everyone just simmer down.

 

[A350]

Beach:

I understand your point....

But you are incorrect about his "position". He has stated multiple times that we WILL get stapled and that he would "take that tomorrow"....not "should we get stapled". This position also indicates the ignorance that all of those near the bottom of our list are as young as he is, meaning they would all fare as well as he would. This is another ridiculous assumption.

I also understand the mentality of "it matters not, it won't affect me" and how it has helped put this profession in the shambles that it can be.

He can have the last word.

A350