Future AMR/B6 timeline....

[CapnVegetto]

The idiots are the no voters. You can't pigeon hole an entire group because of their background. We have good/bad mil, corp, frac, regional, major pilots.

I'm hearing stories of a lot of no voters regretting it now. Especially with this whole COLA raise debacle.

If there is another drive this year, I believe it has a good chance of succeeding.

 

[BeachBummer]

I'm hearing stories of a lot of no voters regretting it now. Especially with this whole COLA raise debacle.

If there is another drive this year, I believe it has a good chance of succeeding.

NO NO NO! It will be the end of jetBlue as we know it!!! Dave will quit! Rob will quit!! They'll sell us to USAir!! They'll take away FLICA! We will be forced back to 2006 pay scales and then our hours will be capped!! ALPA will assess the JB pilots for TWA's sellout to AA. We won't be able to get better health care, look at the economy. I can invest my 2% in better things.

No way man, never happen. Dave, Rob and the moat will protect us and we have a poison pill. uke:

 

[pilotpayne]

If AA buys us, we are going to get stapled. If we have a CBA and get SUPER lucky a few high up captains might get a bit of integration. 190 guys and all FO's are going to get stapled, though.



So they would staple 190 captains. Why?

How do you guys come up with this stuff?

 

[Lake Alice]

If we have a CBA we have a shot. We have the ability to fight that battle.

With the PEA Dave Barger or a member of management is our representative.

 

[CapnVegetto]

If AA buys us, we are going to get stapled. If we have a CBA and get SUPER lucky a few high up captains might get a bit of integration. 190 guys and all FO's are going to get stapled, though.



So they would staple 190 captains. Why?

How do you guys come up with this stuff?

It's actually quite simple. Look at M/A history. If you use the 'career expectations' model, which would actually be best for us, you see that AA has no comparable equipment in # of seats, A/C type, etc. Since no arbitrator would put any group of employees in smaller, lower paying equipment senior to those in larger, higher paying equipment, it's a no brainer.

It's like saying if AA bought Mesa, then the #1 RJ guy at Mesa gets equal seniority to the #1 777 captain at AA. Not gonna happen.

You would be wise to look at M & A history to see what we can expect. Even if we get pure DOH, the most junior pilot on AA's current on property list was hired considerably earlier then when B6 even started ops. DOH = staple.

It's a sad, sad fact, but that is what is going to happen, like it or not. The only thing a CBA will really do is allow Mcaskill/Bond to apply to the B6 pilot group, meaning we will be senior to all currently furloughed AA pilots. Which, in my opinion, won't matter because there won't be a furlough if they buy us anyway.

For those of you that think we will have a fighting chance against the APA I just shake my head. No arbitrator will give us the time of day, and the APA will keep the companies seperate ala USAir before they let one of our guys gain any seniority to any one of their guys. The best case wet dream scenario for us would be our guys getting intergrated captain/fo to all their MD80/737 guys. That ain't gonna happen, especially with the 190 guys.

Those that say it will be ugly are wrong. The APA will light us on fire and piss on the ashes, just like they did with the TWA guys. The only saving grace is the fact that in less than 20 years, pretty much their entire seniority list will be gone. Even if we get stapled, every B6 pilot that is left will be able to hold international widebody captain at some point. The junior guys like me will hold it for 10-15 years. That ain't so bad.

I say bring it on.

 

[CapnVegetto]

If we have a CBA we have a shot. We have the ability to fight that battle.

With the PEA Dave Barger or a member of management is our representative.

we do have the ability to fight the battle, but we don't have a leg to stand on. The most junior pilot on property at AA is senior to the entire B6 company. The best we can possibly hope for is a few senior guys getting a little bit of integration.

Honestly, I doubt we'd do much worse with Barger representing us. But we still need a CBA desperately simply for McCaskill/Bond to apply.

 

[macdu]

NO NO NO! It will be the end of jetBlue as we know it!!! Dave will quit! Rob will quit!! They'll sell us to USAir!! They'll take away FLICA! We will be forced back to 2006 pay scales and then our hours will be capped!! ALPA will assess the JB pilots for TWA's sellout to AA. We won't be able to get better health care, look at the economy. I can invest my 2% in better things.

No way man, never happen. Dave, Rob and the moat will protect us and we have a poison pill. uke:

"TWA's sell out". Excuse me! Are you kidding me!

 

[Flyby1206]

It's actually quite simple. Look at M/A history. If you use the 'career expectations' model, which would actually be best for us, you see that AA has no comparable equipment in # of seats, A/C type, etc. Since no arbitrator would put any group of employees in smaller, lower paying equipment senior to those in larger, higher paying equipment, it's a no brainer.

It's like saying if AA bought Mesa, then the #1 RJ guy at Mesa gets equal seniority to the #1 777 captain at AA. Not gonna happen.

You would be wise to look at M & A history to see what we can expect. Even if we get pure DOH, the most junior pilot on AA's current on property list was hired considerably earlier then when B6 even started ops. DOH = staple.

It's a sad, sad fact, but that is what is going to happen, like it or not. The only thing a CBA will really do is allow Mcaskill/Bond to apply to the B6 pilot group, meaning we will be senior to all currently furloughed AA pilots. Which, in my opinion, won't matter because there won't be a furlough if they buy us anyway.

For those of you that think we will have a fighting chance against the APA I just shake my head. No arbitrator will give us the time of day, and the APA will keep the companies seperate ala USAir before they let one of our guys gain any seniority to any one of their guys. The best case wet dream scenario for us would be our guys getting intergrated captain/fo to all their MD80/737 guys. That ain't gonna happen, especially with the 190 guys.

If it was anyone other than APA, I would argue that RAH and F9 integration placed a huge portion of RJ guys above A320 pilots, so your arguement doesnt hold water.

BUT... we would hypothetically be dealing with AMR and APA. The two most evil and dangerous groups in the business. There would be no doubt in my mind that we would be stapled and/or furloughed. CBA or no CBA.

 

[CapnVegetto]

If it was anyone other than APA, I would argue that RAH and F9 integration placed a huge portion of RJ guys above A320 pilots, so your arguement doesnt hold water.

BUT... we would hypothetically be dealing with AMR and APA. The two most evil and dangerous groups in the business. There would be no doubt in my mind that we would be stapled and/or furloughed. CBA or no CBA.

Exactly. AMR is Satan incarnate.

 

[Otto77]

Anyone hear on of our fellow pilots question to RM regarding pay review today? Glad he asked and was interesting to see all the excuses. Long story short looks like nothing will come about without a CBA.