Future AMR/B6 timeline....

[BeachBummer]

"TWA's sell out". Excuse me! Are you kidding me!

Don't be a mc******************************!
Breath... Breath... one more... ok. now read the sarcasm in that WHOLE POST. This is the crap our managment says.

:beer: now go have a cold one and relax.

HAHAHA, I got sensored.

 

[fifty30retard]

Dave went from gate agent in 1982 at New York Air, to Director of Stations at New York Air in 6 short years, under Frank Lorenzo's ownership, then got rolled into Lorenzo's Continental management team and became a Vice President.

Frank hated all representation and so does your religious icon Dave. The apple falls not far from the tree. Dave is Frank, and Frank is Dave.

Been kicked in the teeth lately?

 

[Lake Alice]

I tried to find the JTTP where he made the statement but I was unable. If I'm not mistaken he also referenced the relationship during last years state of the airline.

 

[hoover84]

I guess Dave was off the day Frank
handed out the golden parachutes
prior to his departure.
He'd be a fool ever to mention Lorenzo's
name to any pilot. Did he see the bad and the good(?)
from the man, I'm sure he did.
Just as you do when you fly with the worst pilot in the base.
Does that make you a crappy pilot too?

 

[geardown]

I've never heard him mention Lorenzo by name , but he definitely likes to talk about all his experience he got from New York Air. That is just about the same as using Frankie's name.

 

[Vastly Underemp]

A union is coming the same as a merger. It WILL happen. Our best hope is that it happens in time to make McCaskill/Bond apply to us.

If AA buys us, we are going to get stapled. If we have a CBA and get SUPER lucky a few high up captains might get a bit of integration. 190 guys and all FO's are going to get stapled, though. That's just the way it is. Our PEA vs. the APA? That's a no brainer. If we have a CBA, though, at least we'll be put ahead of any furloughs not on property.

The APA doesn't hate us, it is simply their job to get the best deal possible for their members. Barger doesn't hate us any more than I hate him. He is just doing his job, which is to maximize shareholder value. He's there to make money for the company, NOT to take care of the employees.

The thing that gets me is this: NOBODY in the entire industry has looked at WN, how they run their heavily unionized shop, how they treat their employees with tops in the industry pay and benefits, and said "you know, that's not a bad idea, maybe we should try that. Our employees will work their butts off!" It would be a novel idea if B6 management, or any airline management for that matter would give that a shot.

I'm probably dreaming, though.

APAs contract requires recall of ALL furloughees prior to any OAL acquisitions. Most of the furloughees are former TWA, so they may not fight quite so hard as they have in the past, but I think they don't want to set the precedent of caving on this one.

Your milage may vary

 

[RiddleEagle18]

APAs contract requires recall of ALL furloughees prior to any OAL acquisitions. Most of the furloughees are former TWA, so they may not fight quite so hard as they have in the past, but I think they don't want to set the precedent of caving on this one.

Your milage may vary

APA's contract is about to change too. I would be shocked if that survives.

 

[CapnVegetto]

APA's contract is about to change too. I would be shocked if that survives.

Plus, that is in direct contradiction with McCaskill/Bond. Court Fight!!!

There would end up being some kind of compromise.

 

[Draginass]

The difference between TWA and B6 would be that B6 adds value to the corporation. TWA was a big looser to the corporation. Within a couple of years AA was back to it's original size and blew a billion bucks for nothing.

The last take rate for recalls was about 15%. I suspect that would go deep into the single digits now if there were to recall.

 

[shon7]

B6 can always just bid for select assets only. Similar to the WN ATA deal.

 

[BeachBummer]

Plus, that is in direct contradiction with McCaskill/Bond. Court Fight!!!

There would end up being some kind of compromise.

The only court fight that would happen involving McB, would be if they granted single carrier status. There will be no fight, no ground to stand on if they buy us/we buy them when both parties are operating under umbrella holdings. Assets can be xfrd back and forth.

This is why single carrier status was not even applied for until after the SWA/AT pilots came to an agreement.

In a TE if your haning your carreer on this law, you should make a plan B.

While I would hope that the "Dave" and the mass retirements at AA or any other would help us out, I fear that we would be on the recieving end of any hose job.

just my thought on the situation. ok now, ready fire aim LOL!

 

[BeachBummer]

B6 can always just bid for select assets only. Similar to the WN ATA deal.

There will be no bidding on AA's assets. This BK is a restructure. ATA's BK was full on meltdown. AA has 4billion in the bank. ATA barely had enough cash on hand to cover payroll.

AA will come out and absorb or merge or be absorbed in entirety by something. It's the airline way. Just look at the most recent all preceded by a BK, AWA/US... NWA/DAL... AA/TWA... the list goes on and on and on. When in bk misery loves company, bring some one else into the party.

 

[Fins Up]

The only court fight that would happen involving McB, would be if they granted single carrier status. There will be no fight, no ground to stand on if they buy us/we buy them when both parties are operating under umbrella holdings. Assets can be xfrd back and forth.

This is why single carrier status was not even applied for until after the SWA/AT pilots came to an agreement.

In a TE if your haning your carreer on this law, you should make a plan B.

While I would hope that the "Dave" and the mass retirements at AA or any other would help us out, I fear that we would be on the recieving end of any hose job.

just my thought on the situation. ok now, ready fire aim LOL!

Also, McB says company leadership can "negotiate" on behalf of the pilot group if they want to. I find it hard to believe they would fight tooth and nail for us while they're trying to work out their own sweet deals.

 

[UpNDownGuy]

It's actually quite simple. Look at M/A history. If you use the 'career expectations' model, which would actually be best for us, you see that AA has no comparable equipment in # of seats, A/C type, etc. Since no arbitrator would put any group of employees in smaller, lower paying equipment senior to those in larger, higher paying equipment, it's a no brainer.

It's like saying if AA bought Mesa, then the #1 RJ guy at Mesa gets equal seniority to the #1 777 captain at AA. Not gonna happen.

You would be wise to look at M & A history to see what we can expect. Even if we get pure DOH, the most junior pilot on AA's current on property list was hired considerably earlier then when B6 even started ops. DOH = staple.

It's a sad, sad fact, but that is what is going to happen, like it or not. The only thing a CBA will really do is allow Mcaskill/Bond to apply to the B6 pilot group, meaning we will be senior to all currently furloughed AA pilots. Which, in my opinion, won't matter because there won't be a furlough if they buy us anyway.

For those of you that think we will have a fighting chance against the APA I just shake my head. No arbitrator will give us the time of day, and the APA will keep the companies seperate ala USAir before they let one of our guys gain any seniority to any one of their guys. The best case wet dream scenario for us would be our guys getting intergrated captain/fo to all their MD80/737 guys. That ain't gonna happen, especially with the 190 guys.

Those that say it will be ugly are wrong. The APA will light us on fire and piss on the ashes, just like they did with the TWA guys. The only saving grace is the fact that in less than 20 years, pretty much their entire seniority list will be gone. Even if we get stapled, every B6 pilot that is left will be able to hold international widebody captain at some point. The junior guys like me will hold it for 10-15 years. That ain't so bad.

I say bring it on.

This is so stupid it actually makes my head hurt. You think an arbitrator would take JB's list, rearrange it so all 320 guys are senior to all 190 guys, then staple it to AA? Oww! Oww! So much pain...

Seniority is seniority. I'm a 190 CA that's senior to you, and after any merger, I'll still be senior to you.

 

[CapnVegetto]

This is so stupid it actually makes my head hurt. You think an arbitrator would take JB's list, rearrange it so all 320 guys are senior to all 190 guys, then staple it to AA? Oww! Oww! So much pain...

Seniority is seniority. I'm a 190 CA that's senior to you, and after any merger, I'll still be senior to you.

Learn to read, idiot.

I never said that I'd be senior to anybody. I'm saying SOME super senior captains MIGHT get a bit of integration. MAYBE.

I doubt it.


The APA will protect their own, as far as they are concerned, we can go to hell.

If AA buys us, you better get ready to be stapled. It's going to happen. I'll take it right now. I'll be a widebody captain for 20+ years thanks to retirements if there is a staple tomorrow. I'll take that.

 

[A350]

So in typical fashion.....it is all about you and less about everyone else?

Brilliant!

A350

 

[CapnVegetto]

Boy, that's rich.

You don't want to get into that debate with me, skippy.

 

[A350]

Wanna bet?

You opened your mouth. Lets hear it.

A350

 

[BeachBummer]

So in typical fashion.....it is all about you and less about everyone else?

Brilliant!

A350

He'll correct me if I'm wrong here. CaptVag's point is that should we get stapled, for those of us on the bottom of Jb's list it's not that bad of a deal. Those "Senior" bus drivers and what not that are hinging thier livley hood on the left seat are the one's that will get hit the hardest when McB does not apply to a TE. Thus showing his support for a union to help us protect the masses. Something like that?

So, everyone just simmer down.

 

[A350]

Beach:

I understand your point....

But you are incorrect about his "position". He has stated multiple times that we WILL get stapled and that he would "take that tomorrow"....not "should we get stapled". This position also indicates the ignorance that all of those near the bottom of our list are as young as he is, meaning they would all fare as well as he would. This is another ridiculous assumption.

I also understand the mentality of "it matters not, it won't affect me" and how it has helped put this profession in the shambles that it can be.

He can have the last word.

A350