Furloughs at Delta and Northwest

[General Lee]

I am sure that if we furlough it will be equally shared. Probably 300-350 from each side. It will not be the merger, it will be fuel. Voting No will not change this.

Which Delta planes will be parked do you think? What about the 737-700s and 777s that are coming?


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Superpilot92]

You guys keep talking about Furloughs like they have been announced. As of right now no furloughs are planned and to offset the chances of a furlough the NWA side has already established NUMEROUS plans to get some of the old guys to punch out. They did this to COA in the event of either side undermining the no furlough clauses. we have about 300-400 people with papers that are on the fence on whether to leave or not. The company knows these people are going to punch out as soon as they get their equity. Also the guys on the fence have the option of leaving pre-merger and getting their medical and dental coverage covered through retirement. If they stay they will be looking at expensive medical coverage in retirement. is DALPA looking at tne same programs? We'll see.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

More detail will be forthcoming. There are a lot of ifs general. I have realized that things are moving a lot quicker that we realize. FWIW no matter what happens there is no way to get away from this freight train.
Vote no on the JPWA and NWA will probably get what is in it and we will get LOA 19. We will be divided and that is not a good thing. The SLI will happen no matter what we or anyone else tries to do to derail it. Many may not like it, but the TFA basically spells it out.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Though vague there is a MOA that states that DAL and the association will look in to early outs. That says something guys.

 

[Superpilot92]

More detail will be forthcoming. There are a lot of ifs general. I have realized that things are moving a lot quicker that we realize. FWIW no matter what happens there is no way to get away from this freight train.
Vote no on the JPWA and NWA will probably get what is in it and we will get LOA 19. We will be divided and that is not a good thing. The SLI will happen no matter what we or anyone else tries to do to derail it. Many may not like it, but the TFA basically spells it out.

Exactly. NWA will get our own "LOA 19" but it will be the gains in JPWA. The SLI will be done in the same process regardless of the outcome with the TA. We need to take the gains and run help build this company and pilot group up so we can get the industry leading contract when our negotiating environment is better.

 

[exeagle]

You guys keep talking about Furloughs like they have been announced. As of right now no furloughs are planned and to offset the chances of a furlough the NWA side has already established NUMEROUS plans to get some of the old guys to punch out. They did this to COA in the event of either side undermining the no furlough clauses. we have about 300-400 people with papers that are on the fence on whether to leave or not. The company knows these people are going to punch out as soon as they get their equity. Also the guys on the fence have the option of leaving pre-merger and getting their medical and dental coverage covered through retirement. If they stay they will be looking at expensive medical coverage in retirement. is DALPA looking at tne same programs? We'll see.

Just curious, how do you know we have 300 to 400 guys on the fence about leaving?

 

[~~~^~~~]

.... deleted, I'm not sure.

 

[DTW320]

You guys keep talking about Furloughs like they have been announced. As of right now no furloughs are planned and to offset the chances of a furlough the NWA side has already established NUMEROUS plans to get some of the old guys to punch out. They did this to COA in the event of either side undermining the no furlough clauses. we have about 300-400 people with papers that are on the fence on whether to leave or not. The company knows these people are going to punch out as soon as they get their equity. Also the guys on the fence have the option of leaving pre-merger and getting their medical and dental coverage covered through retirement. If they stay they will be looking at expensive medical coverage in retirement. is DALPA looking at tne same programs? We'll see.

This is from the latest Council 20 update clipped from a long discussion of the pros/cons of the TA:
·

Retiree health insurance is the BIG problem. The DAL plans have NO “premium sharing” (active and retired pilots) for pre-age 60 retirees (resulting in a 250% to 400% increase in premiums); and age 60-64 retirees pay a 50% shared premium on a split risk pool limited to that age category (rather than the blended pool currently in use for the NWA plan) leading to a 200% to 300% increase in premiums.
·Pilots who retire before DCC willbe grandfathered under the NWA Plan (and premiums).

This needs to be posted on every base bulletin board/mailroom/left seat clipboard at NWA.

NWA Seniors (to me anyway): Get out now while you still can!!

 

[DTW320]

Hence the supercharged, JATO bottle assisted, Mach 3 drive to get an SLI, ASAP.

This, also from our Council 20 update:

Seniority List Integration (SLI).
In the meantime, the seniority list integration process will begin (again). On July 8, the NWA and DAL “Representatives” (as discussed earlier) will begin a 30-day process to attempt to negotiate a seniority list. The DAL “Representatives” are expected to include the DAL MEC CH and others rather than just specifically their Merger Committee. If an agreement cannot be reached on a combined seniority list by August 8, they will then submit the issues in dispute to a three-member arbitration panel. The arbitration panel will be bound to deliver a single, complete seniority list decision by November 20, 2008, with the option of writing a detailed justification NLT the December 20, 2008.

The stated goal of all parties is to create a single list that will be in place before the Date of Corporate Closing. The joint contract will not become effective without a joint seniority list (with some possible exceptions limited to a DAL management breach of the agreement or rejection of the seniority list).

 

[Superpilot92]

This is from the latest Council 20 update clipped from a long discussion of the pros/cons of the TA:
·This needs to be posted on every base bulletin board/mailroom/left seat clipboard at NWA.

Retiree health insurance is the BIG problem. The DAL plans have NO “premium sharing” (active and retired pilots) for pre-age 60 retirees (resulting in a 250% to 400% increase in premiums); and age 60-64 retirees pay a 50% shared premium on a split risk pool limited to that age category (rather than the blended pool currently in use for the NWA plan) leading to a 200% to 300% increase in premiums.
·Pilots who retire before DCC willbe grandfathered under the NWA Plan (and premiums).

NWA Seniors (to me anyway): Get out now while you still can!!

Exactly!! this will get a lot of guys. They dont want $1000+ dollars a month taken out of their retirement per month just to stick around and fly till they die.

 

[Superpilot92]

Just curious, how do you know we have 300 to 400 guys on the fence about leaving?

HR rumor TIFWIW

 

[~~~^~~~]

Wild Guess Alert​

With the rush to get the SLI done and the timing of the fleet changes and the fact that an aircraft change would be an entire training cycle....​

IF it is true that Delta is delaying their hiring THEN my guess is that there will be displaced NWA pilots on a Delta advanced entitlement bid within the next five months.​

Makes more sense than hiring to furlough. Explains the urgency and I think would be approved by the FAA, even with separate certificates. Requires an airplane change & full training cycle.​

My theory could be shot down (or confirmed) fast by someone with intricate knowledge of the NWA transition agreement. Are the bidding requirements a minimum limit, or a maximum limit? Can they do bids faster than the transition agreement? Can management be in compliance faster than agreed? I bet the answer is yes.

This seems like something that is a "nice to have" that could go either way. ACL65's comment went over my head, but I think one reason for the cancellation of the displacement was that things are moving too fast to train up pilots when the bids are going to be overcome by events.

Occam, FDJ2 (where's he been) and others - am I nuts?​

 

[Fly4hire]

Again, if there are fences and they only park the DC9s, (and the DC9s are fenced), only NWA pilots or new hires after the DCC would be sent to compass.
Bye Bye--General Lee

GL,

Again not talking fences. With a single list your seniority number determines what you fly not your pre-merger aircraft. You may well have 737 F/O's junior to DC9 F/O's. If the DC9 gets parked the senior pilots go where their seniority will let them.

Sans a SOC does not mean that a former NWA DC9 pilot could not displace into a 737 F/O ahead of a SOC. All us former NWA'ers will have to go through a DAL indoc at some point, and full training would simply be indoc + aircraft.

I know you desperately want former NWA pilots to take all the hits, but bottom line is seniority will determine where a pilot goes.

And what would you do with the DC9 Captains - furlough 12+ year NWA pilots while yesterday's DAL new hire is safe. What about a 25 year 747-200 Captain? Don't think so, and a reason I'm guessing there will be no fences.

If we start furloughing out of seniority we open a Pandora's box of problems that would make USair look tame. Even though it's inconceivable to you right now, it could cut the other way as well - the MD-88's are only marginally more efficient than the DC-9-50. IF for some reason 88's were parked and DC9's were not would you be in favor of furloughing those pilots out of seniority, or rather have them be able to bump into a more junior position, even it's a DC9?

This also supports the no hiring in the fall rumor.....

 

[clippyrip]

Wild Guess Alert​

With the rush to get the SLI done and the timing of the fleet changes and the fact that an aircraft change would be an entire training cycle....​

IF it is true that Delta is delaying their hiring THEN my guess is that there will be displaced NWA pilots on a Delta advanced entitlement bid within the next five months.​

Makes more sense than hiring to furlough. Explains the urgency and I think would be approved by the FAA, even with separate certificates. Requires an airplane change & full training cycle.​

My theory could be shot down (or confirmed) fast by someone with intricate knowledge of the NWA transition agreement. Are the bidding requirements a minimum limit, or a maximum limit? Can they do bids faster than the transition agreement? Can management be in compliance faster than agreed? I bet the answer is yes.

This seems like something that is a "nice to have" that could go either way. ACL65's comment went over my head, but I think one reason for the cancellation of the displacement was that things are moving too fast to train up pilots when the bids are going to be overcome by events.

Occam, FDJ2 (where's he been) and others - am I nuts?​

Interesting thought, it makes sense(AND CENTS) to do it that way.

 

[clippyrip]

And what would you do with the DC9 Captains - furlough 12+ year NWA pilots while yesterday's DAL new hire is safe. What about a 25 year 747-200 Captain? Don't think so, and a reason I'm guessing there will be no fences.

Exactly!!