Freedom loses all 50 seat flying for Delta.

[SpacemanSpiff]

You can thank Delta for that one...

I'm one of those 100 pilots that was furloughed at the end of 2005. My wife and I ended up losing the house we were building at the time. Thanks Mesa pilots!

Don't you think that had more to do with Delta having a little payback from that strike back in 2001 (or was it 2000? - I forget)? Delta feels like they learned a lesson - they put all their eggs in one basket in ComAir at CVG and got burned.

You are REALLY reaching if you are blaming Delta and ComAir's financial issues on the Mesa pilot group. Nice try though.

 

[SpacemanSpiff]

Don't worry guys...

JO is doing a MUCH better job of putting Mesa out of business than the Aloha lawsuit ever could. You might not have to wait until October. Cost are rising and revenue is rapidly falling.

JO is doubling down in Hawaii by adding more flights now that he has eliminated Aloha. Ego! was already losing millions before, and now it will lose money at an even faster rate. His insanity is almost comical.

What surprises me most is that the institutional investors are not raising holy he!! about JO's "performance" AND the board of directors actually extending JO's contract.

 

[relief tube]

in that case. PM me the routing number to your checking account. so you can pay my bills and etc while i look for another job

How f--king ironic. How about an Aloha guy instead who's a lot more deserving.

I call BS on your comment. I would almost bet the farm that as long as you have more than a year's tenure there, that furlough's wont touch you. The only ones affected will be the 300 hour 21 year old wonder pilots that should have built more time in the first place.

 

[B.T.Justice]

Over the years mesa has held regional wages down, and put more workers out of work than you realize. I was with ACA and I was based in ORD, then IAD. When UAL went bankrupt, Bain Capital (UAL bk consultants) pointed to ACA / AWAC / SKYW, and laid out the new contract rates. They went through the books line by line. Pilot wages...too expensive. Hotels....too expensive. Paper for the copier...too expensive. (i'm not kidding)

We had to meet Mesa prices or be shown the door. ACA had guts and exited UAL with dignity. I eventualy lost my job, and it's funny; I don't remember any Mesa pilots feeling sympthathy for the 1700 ACA pilots that lost their jobs.....because of Mesa.

If Mesa didn't undercut everyone so bad, ACA and AWAC would still be UAL carriers. So sorry, I won't be shedding any tears.

I think in time you'll find out that most other regionals are far better. They even provide single occupancy accomadations on stand ups!

 

[fly4surf]

Ego!

good one.

 

[Medeco]

Over the years mesa has held regional wages down, and put more workers out of work than you realize. I was with ACA and I was based in ORD, then IAD. When UAL went bankrupt, Bain Capital (UAL bk consultants) pointed to ACA / AWAC / SKYW, and laid out the new contract rates. They went through the books line by line. Pilot wages...too expensive. Hotels....too expensive. Paper for the copier...too expensive. (i'm not kidding)

We had to meet Mesa prices or be shown the door. ACA had guts and exited UAL with dignity. I eventualy lost my job, and it's funny; I don't remember any Mesa pilots feeling sympthathy for the 1700 ACA pilots that lost their jobs.....because of Mesa.

If Mesa didn't undercut everyone so bad, ACA and AWAC would still be UAL carriers. So sorry, I won't be shedding any tears.

I think in time you'll find out that most other regionals are far better. They even provide single occupancy accomadations on stand ups!

That pretty much sums it up for you Mesa newbies and others who have short term memories.

Medeco

 

[Cpt Oveur]

I think in time you'll find out that most other regionals are far better. They even provide single occupancy accomadations on stand ups!

Then by implication, Mesa doesn't provide that? **** mesa!

 

[WSurf]

And here is Your Boss at Mesa.

Makes for lovely reading!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_G._Ornstein

 

[DrewBlows]

Don't you think that had more to do with Delta having a little payback from that strike back in 2001 (or was it 2000? - I forget)? Delta feels like they learned a lesson - they put all their eggs in one basket in ComAir at CVG and got burned.

You are REALLY reaching if you are blaming Delta and ComAir's financial issues on the Mesa pilot group. Nice try though.

Airlines don't make major fleet decisions based on spite. Delta put a significant portion of Comair's flying up for bid to the cheapest bidder during bankruptcy. Not surprisingly, Mesa won a some of that flying. They won the flying because they were the cheapest, it's that simple. Part of the reason they were cheaper than Comair is because they don't pay their employees as much. Another reason is because they had extra airplanes they needed to place due to losing their contract with USAirways.

No one will ever know, but it wouldn't surprise me if Mesa's contract with Delta was only break even or possibly even at a loss. Remember too, Mesa agreed to absorb the leases for the ACA Dorniers in early 2005 to get their foot in the Delta door. There is no way they could have been making a profit while paying the leases of 30 airplanes they didn't even fly. Also, Mesa agreed to fly Dash-8's they didn't even own, some of which proved to be unairworthy.

Given all this it's not surprising Mesa's performance was lacking. They basically put themselves in a position where they couldn't adequately staff an airline because any additional costs would put them in the red. Meanwhile, when Delta decided they wanted to cut flying the first place they looked was Mesa. In bankruptcy Delta could justify poor performance as cutting costs. Out of bankruptcy, Delta could use Mesa's poor performance to justify terminating the contract, once again cutting costs.

Mesa has basically been running a business model which relied on employees showing up for work every day, unfortunately they treated their employees so poorly that many left at their first chance, further hurting Mesa's abysmal performance.

None of this is Mesa's pilot's fault, they don't make business decisions at Mesa, though many of them will pay for managements poor business decisions. Like it or not, many pilots won't be upset to see Mesa suffer. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't one of them.

I was in the hiring pool at ACA when they lost their UAL contract. In fairness there is blame to be spread in that case, but Mesa played a part. In 2005 when Mesa took over D328 lease payments I was at Skyway. In 2006 when Mesa "won" Delta flying, I was furloughed from Comair.

I hold no ill will toward Mesa pilots, but I'm no fan of Mesa management. If there are any Mesa pilots on this forum who are interested in Compass, PM me, I'll be happy to refer you.

 

[WSurf]

I was in the hiring pool at ACA when they lost their UAL contract. In fairness there is blame to be spread in that case, but Mesa played a part. In 2005 when Mesa took over D328 lease payments I was at Skyway. In 2006 when Mesa "won" Delta flying, I was furloughed from Comair.

Jeez, now Compass! Is there a regional you haven't flown for? Damn, I hope the rest of your career goes much better for you bubba.

Good Luck

Oh and insert Sarcasm....

 

[cq43vt17t]

No , once again..THERE ARE NO FREEDOM A LISTERS ON PROPERTY

I don't know about you, but I've flown, trained with, and met several myself. There are some still at YV & F8. I know of some on the 145 and the 900. The surprising thing is that most of the ones I have encountered, you would have never guessed they were part of the operation when it started.

 

[79%N1]

Over the years mesa has held regional wages down, and put more workers out of work than you realize. I was with ACA and I was based in ORD, then IAD. When UAL went bankrupt, Bain Capital (UAL bk consultants) pointed to ACA / AWAC / SKYW, and laid out the new contract rates. They went through the books line by line. Pilot wages...too expensive. Hotels....too expensive. Paper for the copier...too expensive. (i'm not kidding)

We had to meet Mesa prices or be shown the door. ACA had guts and exited UAL with dignity. I eventualy lost my job, and it's funny; I don't remember any Mesa pilots feeling sympthathy for the 1700 ACA pilots that lost their jobs.....because of Mesa.

If Mesa didn't undercut everyone so bad, ACA and AWAC would still be UAL carriers. So sorry, I won't be shedding any tears.

I think in time you'll find out that most other regionals are far better. They even provide single occupancy accomadations on stand ups!

CAN I GET AN AMEN!

 

[B.T.Justice]

Then by implication, Mesa doesn't provide that? **** mesa!

Up until about a year ago, the crew had to sleep on the plane....Now I think it's 1 room for the entire crew!

 

[RP170]

But you really have no idea how our crooked contract came to be.

And you've agreed to work under it.

 

[SpacemanSpiff]

"When UAL went bankrupt..."

Over the years mesa has held regional wages down, and put more workers out of work than you realize. I was with ACA and I was based in ORD, then IAD. When UAL went bankrupt, Bain Capital (UAL bk consultants) pointed to ACA / AWAC / SKYW, and laid out the new contract rates. They went through the books line by line. Pilot wages...too expensive. Hotels....too expensive. Paper for the copier...too expensive. (i'm not kidding)

We had to meet Mesa prices or be shown the door. ACA had guts and exited UAL with dignity. I eventualy lost my job

You said it yourself, "When UAL went bankrupt". They cancelled and renegotiated ALL contracts in ALL areas of their business. UAL even screwed over their own employees. Delta did and USAir did the same thing with all of their contracts. Don't you think that (BANKRUPTCY) might have had a little something to do with it? Your logic is riddled with holes.

As far as exiting with dignity goes...how dignified was it when ACA management made a foolish decision to go it alone with RJ's. I guess that was the Mesa pilot group's fault also, right?

 

[Soverytired]

We had to meet Mesa prices or be shown the door. ACA had guts and exited UAL with dignity. I eventualy lost my job, and it's funny; I don't remember any Mesa pilots feeling sympthathy for the 1700 ACA pilots that lost their jobs.....because of Mesa.

Clearly, you don't know many (if any) Mesa pilots then. ACA going down in flames was a shame. NO pilot at Mesa wanted to merge with you (via Mesa's failed takeover attempt), and no one I knew reveled in ACA's quick demise.

"Exited with dignity?" Clearly, ACA pilots must have had a great deal of control over major business decisions then.

In hindsight, trying to run an airline A.K.A. "Independence" using mainly 50-seat RJ's seems pretty foolish. How much cash did ACA burn through in less than a year? Good god man!

I feel incredibly badly for the Aloha pilots, because they got f'd by Mesa, pure and simple. The ACA story is much, much more complicated. The seeds of ACA's demise are more rooted in a ill-thought-out business plan than a regional that charged United 2% less for it's lift services.

 

[lindsaya99]

Don't you think that had more to do with Delta having a little payback from that strike back in 2001 (or was it 2000? - I forget)? Delta feels like they learned a lesson - they put all their eggs in one basket in ComAir at CVG and got burned.

You are REALLY reaching if you are blaming Delta and ComAir's financial issues on the Mesa pilot group. Nice try though.

Payback? So the Comair pilot group deserved "payback" for going on strike in an attempt to raise the bar for regional airline pay and work rules? Well, then I guess the Mesa pilot group deserved a reward for rolling over and accepting pay and workrules that are among the worst in the industry. Come on guys, even Colgan gets block or better. The fact remains that while I found myself on the street, Mesa took flying over from my previous employer. As another poster stated, the same thing happend to ACA and AWAC. Now its been done to Aloha. 1900 jobs lost just so you could fly a handful of RJs in Hawaii.
I wonder how many Mesa pilots were working at Aloha. Oh the irony, sell out for a quick upgrade so you can move on to a Major just to be put out of a job by a your old regional. Could almost drive a man to drink!

 

[rickair7777]

I don't know about you, but I've flown, trained with, and met several myself. There are some still at YV & F8. I know of some on the 145 and the 900. The surprising thing is that most of the ones I have encountered, you would have never guessed they were part of the operation when it started.

Yeah I had the pleasure of flying with a few FAGs myself, and it wasn't that long ago...I'm almost certain there are still some there.

The A-listers invariably had an excuse for doing it...

Excuses are like buttholes, everyone has one and they all stink.

 

[pdub20s]

a reward for rolling over and accepting pay and workrules that are among the worst in the industry.

Once again, another tool who doesnt know what he is talking about

 

[rogerwilcoout]

In this unique case it is. The industry will be better off, and the MAG pilots will be happier...even if they don't know it yet.

You are an idiot !