For All You FLOPS BJ Pilots, a little memory lane action

[fischman]

Source? God, I hope that isn't true.

 

[FR8DOG777]

fraid it's true fishman. any bets on how long untill they are bankrupt and atlantic takes them over? I know it will be minimum uplift for me at siggy

 

[fischman]

That sucks.

 

[skanza]

I just downed a NetJets plane last week for a minor item, at an airport without our maintenance personnel. A strip of emergency exit lights was burned out, and the MEL doesn't give us relief from a whole strip being out. I suppose we could have just ignored it; I mean, after all, what are the odds we'll really need them?

I didn't do it because we're in contract negotiations -- we aren't.

I didn't do it to screw our share owner -- quite the opposite.

I wrote it up because it was broken, and was a required piece of equipment to operate the airplane safely. And I agree with that and will not dispute what you did as I would do the same.

Are you suggesting a less-than-thorough preflight, contract negotiations or not? No, but flying an airplane one leg -THEN- doing a "detailed" preflight in the midst of contract negotiations just to break it at K-nowhere is what I disagree with. IT DOES HAPPEN.

I guess I can't say it enough: Airplane break when/where they break. Don't ignore safety of flight issues. Also, don't micro-preflight with the union devil sitting on your shoulder, you never know who's watching...

Back to the list. Nobody has explained why the list isn't emailed to BJ crews on the company email. That would prove that the intent is safety, not as an operation stalling tactic. You people are failing here!

 

[fischman]

I guess I can't say it enough: Airplane break when/where they break. Don't ignore safety of flight issues. Also, don't micro-preflight with the union devil sitting on your shoulder, you never know who's watching...

Back to the list. Nobody has explained why the list isn't emailed to BJ crews on the company email. That would prove that the intent is safety, not as an operation stalling tactic. You people are failing here!

That is contradictory. You can't have both. Do a thorough preflight or ignore safety.

 

[skanza]

Still. You miss the point. I see the pre-flight thoroughness very as negotiations very. That should not happen. A preflight should stay the same - always with safety in mind.
But the list posted here, encourages a pre-flight beyond what's require for safe flight just to stall the operation. If not, send it out on company email. But I bet you won't address this because I'm right.

 

[fischman]

Still. You miss the point. I see the pre-flight thoroughness very as negotiations very. That should not happen. A preflight should stay the same - always with safety in mind.
But the list posted here, encourages a pre-flight beyond what's require for safe flight just to stall the operation. If not, send it out on company email. But I bet you won't address this because I'm right.

Still. YOU miss the point.

THIS is contradictory. YOU CAN NOT HAVE BOTH. At what point is it "beyond what's required for safe flight?" Isn't the up to the PIC?

 

[brokeflyer]

fisch....this guy hasn't learned the PIC responsiblities yet so he can't really join in the conversation yet.

 

[B19 Flyer]

That is contradictory. You can't have both. Do a thorough preflight or ignore safety.

As long as lists are posted on message boards to instruct union membership on items that are specific problem areas above and beyond that of what you are taught in in initial or recurrent, there will be courts stepping in and using those lists as proof of a designed and coordinated effort by union membership to slow down the operation. Every write up can be trended. Lists such as the one here can be matched up to the trending and provides evidence leading to court injunction.

Keep posting these folks... love to see them.

 

[fischman]

As long as lists are posted on message boards to instruct union membership on items that are specific problem areas above and beyond that of what you are taught in in initial or recurrent, there will be courts stepping in and using those lists as proof of a designed and coordinated effort by union membership to slow down the operation. Every write up can be trended. Lists such as the one here can be matched up to the trending and provides evidence leading to court injunction.

Keep posting these folks... love to see them.

This is proof of nothing. It is not an official union message. It is a pilot posting items to watch out for on preflight. It will mean nothing in a court of law.

At what point is a broken item to be ignored? BROKEN IS BROKEN. Sharing safety information is just being professional, and possibly saves lives. You wouldn't understand. You're just a pencil pusher. Leave the flying up to the professionals, and go ahead and keep thinking you are important.

 

[skanza]

This is proof of nothing. It is not an official union message. It is a pilot posting items to watch out for on preflight. It will mean nothing in a court of law.

At what point is a broken item to be ignored? BROKEN IS BROKEN. Sharing safety information is just being professional, and possibly saves lives. OK, then why post it interlaced with pro-union, operation disrupting bull$hit? Why not email it using company email instead of hiding behind a silly username? Will someone answer this?! You wouldn't understand. You're just a pencil pusher. Leave the flying up to the professionals, and go ahead and keep thinking you are important.

*****

 

[brokeflyer]

I dont know about flops but we get stuff like that all the time at NJ....sometimes via email and sometimes vial snail mail.

 

[fischman]

And, please add to the list.................don't be shy

HOW TO PRE-FLIGHT A BEECHJET​

1. Power lever gators (the rubber that keeps stuff from falling into the pedestal) needs to be intact not worn downing item
2. Bonding cables under the spoilerons
3. Top of brake calipers for leaks
4. Plastic conduits for wires for the main gear for fraying and damage
5. Hydraulic lines that go into the pressure switches below the reservoir (mx might try to get you to leave a rag in there for the next flight to check for drips. this is unsafe and illegal) don't even reach in to wipe them (I can't reach them anyway and I have slender long arms)
6. Missing rings/washers on the air stairs, or safety wire, safety wire is not per the BJ MX Manual
7. Nose wheel steering pin for a frayed cable (hazard as it might cut your fingers)(puncture wounds by sharp metal are especially prone to infection)
8. Pitot tubes for worn coating
9. Elevator horn coating (check with control lock installed for more thorough viewing)
10. Door seal channel for damage from door pins
11. Move all pax seats for free movement and locking (check for shoulder harness placards, including the lav seat)
12. All placards (exterior and interior) installed and readable
13. Michelins are installed instead of Goodyear’s, check sidewalls for wear as they are slightly wider and often rub while spinning down in the wells shortly after gear retraction
14. Seat belt extender placards for compatibility with seat belt systems with shoulder harnesses
15. O2 mask microphone function
16. Accumulator window too hazed to see through
17. Broken safety wire on emer gear/door/brake handle
18. Burned out fuel/hyd shutoff valve lights
19. Takeoff pitch trim horn doesn't sound if trim is SLIGHTLY out of the green
20. Takeoff pitch trim horn does sound if trim is BARELY within green.
21. Aileron trims run at different speeds.
22. One aileron trim hesitates partway through full range
23. O2 mask smoke clearing device broken
24. O2 mask weak pressure for inflating halo
25. O2 mask does not stay in cradle.
26. Smoke goggles too scratched/dirty to see safely.
27. Smoke goggles cover(s) missing/damaged.
28. Check for slippage on the engine inlet screws
29. Static and pitot drains are closed
30. Fire extinguisher properly charged
31. Cockpit trim indicator agrees w/ trim position marking on vertical stab
32. Cracked static wicks can be hard to spot without a gentle tug
33. Non-LED rear nav lights have a short lifespan
34. Drain holes under horizontal stab are clear
35. bonding cables under the spoilerons
36. Allowed, two degree's of roll per second when selecting flaps 10
37. Missing LED's on the clocks (No IFR)
38. Check the knife valve on the crapper. It is MEL-able, but a real live mechanic must come out and disconnect the electrical
39. Missing screws around the access panels ... found one plane missing 28!!!
40. Feed back from the hand held mikes. It’s a no no
41. Foil coated Fire retardant blankets in the main landing gear wells. Torn, punctured or missing the foil coating? This is a downing item according to QA. Not MDL’able
42. Engage the autopilot prior to doing the stall test. When the stick shaker comes on, it MUST also disconnect the autopilot.
43. Run your elevator trim full down and full up. If the needle pass the RED limit marks ... broke
44. On battery power only, run your rudder trim from full right to left or visa versa. The rudder must have full travel in less than 64 seconds per the mx manual
45. When selecting flaps 30, be sure they indicate 30, not 29 not 31 ... can you tell me what REF is for a flaps 29 or 31 approach
46. Big Dents under the door from stair malfunction. Must be measured with a caliper, That area is pressurized
47. Nose strut bottoming or bouncing on taxi, nose strut to low
48. Main door handle. If it lifts up without pressing the red button your done
49. Cabin door closed, the "Red" markings for the door pins must be "Completely Covered". This is listed in the AFM
50. All of this because, SAFETY, SERVICE, AND PROFITABILITY

Skanza,

This is the original posting on this thread.



I don't see anything about a union in it. It looks to me like dime line is spreading his/her experience to other aviators.



You can read in to it what you want, but that's how I see it.

 

[993_Pilot]

... Why not email it using company email...

Here is a few answers for you:

How do you know they don't use company email too? Do you have access to their company email?

There is more than one company with beechjets. Maybe this info will help beechjet drivers at other companies.

Because management might misinterpret the intent the same as you and B19 do.

... instead of hiding behind a silly username?...

I'll call your bluff... If you really think hiding behind user names is silly, then post up with your name, position and company name. Go ahead, show us all how silly it is.

I challenge B19 to do the same. Of course you very well could be B19, sock-puppeting as skanza. If not, you definitely idolize him enough to adopt his annoying technique of inserting blue text in the middle of other peoples quotes.

 

[B19 Flyer]

The all knowing example of excellence!

Skanza,

This is the original posting on this thread.



I don't see anything about a union in it. It looks to me like dime line is spreading his/her experience to other aviators.



You can read in to it what you want, but that's how I see it.

There have been two court injunctions against unions in recent years regarding this exact issue. These are very public. You need to contact your union buddies and see how the proof was provided to the court so show validity to the claim in support of the court action against the union and individual pilots.

You will find various message boards were scoured for messages like this and compared to the trending of write-ups and data.

Example: if the carrier has never had the following write up: "Smoke goggles too scratched/dirty to see safely." and suddenly this becomes a problem after being posted on a message board the court takes a dim view of it and will use it as evidence to support the court injunction.

But like I said, keep posting these... it's great stuff and you are the all knowing example of excellence!