For All You FLOPS BJ Pilots, a little memory lane action

[Fozzy]

How do you pump fuel again? My car has been high an dry since I pulled it off the lot.
And could someone teach me how to file a flight plan?

 

[skanza]

no, i think it was sharing safety related issues geard toward preventing accidents and FAR violations.

remember, when omething goes wrong, it's the captain and fo's ass on the line. Not the guy telling you to go fly.

you'll learn this stuff when you become a captain......someday kid.

Then: 1. Why are these threads started by pro-union individuals? 2. Why at times when union negotiations are going bad? 3. And why the unmistakable undertone of "this is how we can break airplanes" ?
It seems pretty obvious even to the outsider that is neither pro- nor anti-union that these "preflight" lists are formed to stall the operation and not as a way to share safety information...as you claim.
Another proof is that no one involved in the formation of these lists will share thier identity. They choose to do it while hiding behind a silly username on a message board. If it's so innocent and you want to promote safety, then send an email to all of Beechjet crews with your list! Do it! I know you won't and that's the proof.

 

[brokeflyer]

I can't....I dont fly a beechjet. Thanks to that list I feel confident that I could a good pre-flight.

Dont matter what you think, if it's broke then it's broke. There is nothing on that list that is destructive.

Get a grip on reality and leave the big decsions to the Capt.

 

[dime line]

Then: 1. Why are these threads started by pro-union individuals? 2. Why at times when union negotiations are going bad? 3. And why the unmistakable undertone of "this is how we can break airplanes" ?
It seems pretty obvious even to the outsider that is neither pro- nor anti-union that these "preflight" lists are formed to stall the operation and not as a way to share safety information...as you claim.
Another proof is that no one involved in the formation of these lists will share thier identity. They choose to do it while hiding behind a silly username on a message board. If it's so innocent and you want to promote safety, then send an email to all of Beechjet crews with your list! Do it! I know you won't and that's the proof.

Keep living in fairy land.

 

[skanza]

I can't....I dont fly a beechjet. Thanks to that list I feel confident that I could a good pre-flight. So you get your training from the internet? Nice, Capt.

Dont matter what you think, if it's broke then it's broke. I agree, if it's broke then it's broke. But that's not my point. There is nothing on that list that is destructive. Well that's debatable, but the timing of when one should perform these "safe" preflights is the issue; e.g. -union-pilot not happy with management. -airplane is at a no-mx airport. -

Get a grip on reality and leave the big decsions to the Capt.

You just don't get it. Read my post again. Creating lists to purposely break an aircraft under the disguise of "safety first" is under-handed, crooked and non-professional. Yes, I'm accusing you people of that.
Again with the proof:
Why only create/distribute the list during negotiation struggles?
Why not email it to all the BJ crews from your company email (if safety is your goal)?
These questions cannot be answered with selling yourself out.

 

[skanza]

Keep living in fairy land.

Bayl, that doesn't even make any sense. You obviously didn't read/comprehend the text of my post.

fool

 

[CA1900]

You just don't get it. Read my post again. Creating lists to purposely break an aircraft under the disguise of "safety first" is under-handed, crooked and non-professional. Yes, I'm accusing you people of that.

I just downed a NetJets plane last week for a minor item, at an airport without our maintenance personnel. A strip of emergency exit lights was burned out, and the MEL doesn't give us relief from a whole strip being out. I suppose we could have just ignored it; I mean, after all, what are the odds we'll really need them?

I didn't do it because we're in contract negotiations -- we aren't.

I didn't do it to screw our share owner -- quite the opposite.

I wrote it up because it was broken, and was a required piece of equipment to operate the airplane safely.

Are you suggesting a less-than-thorough preflight, contract negotiations or not?

 

[brokeflyer]

You just don't get it. Read my post again. Creating lists to purposely break an aircraft under the disguise of "safety first" is under-handed, crooked and non-professional. Yes, I'm accusing you people of that.
Again with the proof:
Why only create/distribute the list during negotiation struggles?
Why not email it to all the BJ crews from your company email (if safety is your goal)?
These questions cannot be answered with selling yourself out.

Well you can have your opinion. We'll use our facts. Facts are, if the plane is broke then it is broke, regardless of where or when or by who. If it's broke at the service center, then it's broke at the service center. If it's broke in desertedville, Pa, then that is where it's broke.

We can debate this all day long, but the bottom line is the PIC decides if it's safe, not your opinion.

Ill be glad to go fly a plane with a "questionable" mx problem soon as you walk down to the FAA office in DC and trim just a little bit of fat off the regs.

Until then, we'll continue to do things the safe way.

 

[brokeflyer]

I just downed a NetJets plane last week for a minor item, at an airport without our maintenance personnel. A strip of emergency exit lights was burned out, and the MEL doesn't give us relief from a whole strip being out. I suppose we could have just ignored it; I mean, after all, what are the odds we'll really need them?

I didn't do it because we're in contract negotiations -- we aren't.

I didn't do it to screw our share owner -- quite the opposite.

I wrote it up because it was broken, and was a required piece of equipment to operate the airplane safely.

Are you suggesting a less-than-thorough preflight, contract negotiations or not?

That was the correct thing to do, you need to treat EVERY flight as if the faa is gonna ramp check you.

 

[FR8DOG777]

This just in

Michael $hitfinger to be named CEO of Signature flight support FBO network. May god have mercy on their souls. I am sure he will fix the cost side of things real good over there.

 

[fischman]

Source? God, I hope that isn't true.

 

[FR8DOG777]

fraid it's true fishman. any bets on how long untill they are bankrupt and atlantic takes them over? I know it will be minimum uplift for me at siggy

 

[fischman]

That sucks.

 

[skanza]

I just downed a NetJets plane last week for a minor item, at an airport without our maintenance personnel. A strip of emergency exit lights was burned out, and the MEL doesn't give us relief from a whole strip being out. I suppose we could have just ignored it; I mean, after all, what are the odds we'll really need them?

I didn't do it because we're in contract negotiations -- we aren't.

I didn't do it to screw our share owner -- quite the opposite.

I wrote it up because it was broken, and was a required piece of equipment to operate the airplane safely. And I agree with that and will not dispute what you did as I would do the same.

Are you suggesting a less-than-thorough preflight, contract negotiations or not? No, but flying an airplane one leg -THEN- doing a "detailed" preflight in the midst of contract negotiations just to break it at K-nowhere is what I disagree with. IT DOES HAPPEN.

I guess I can't say it enough: Airplane break when/where they break. Don't ignore safety of flight issues. Also, don't micro-preflight with the union devil sitting on your shoulder, you never know who's watching...

Back to the list. Nobody has explained why the list isn't emailed to BJ crews on the company email. That would prove that the intent is safety, not as an operation stalling tactic. You people are failing here!

 

[fischman]

I guess I can't say it enough: Airplane break when/where they break. Don't ignore safety of flight issues. Also, don't micro-preflight with the union devil sitting on your shoulder, you never know who's watching...

Back to the list. Nobody has explained why the list isn't emailed to BJ crews on the company email. That would prove that the intent is safety, not as an operation stalling tactic. You people are failing here!

That is contradictory. You can't have both. Do a thorough preflight or ignore safety.

 

[skanza]

Still. You miss the point. I see the pre-flight thoroughness very as negotiations very. That should not happen. A preflight should stay the same - always with safety in mind.
But the list posted here, encourages a pre-flight beyond what's require for safe flight just to stall the operation. If not, send it out on company email. But I bet you won't address this because I'm right.

 

[fischman]

Still. You miss the point. I see the pre-flight thoroughness very as negotiations very. That should not happen. A preflight should stay the same - always with safety in mind.
But the list posted here, encourages a pre-flight beyond what's require for safe flight just to stall the operation. If not, send it out on company email. But I bet you won't address this because I'm right.

Still. YOU miss the point.

THIS is contradictory. YOU CAN NOT HAVE BOTH. At what point is it "beyond what's required for safe flight?" Isn't the up to the PIC?

 

[brokeflyer]

fisch....this guy hasn't learned the PIC responsiblities yet so he can't really join in the conversation yet.

 

[B19 Flyer]

That is contradictory. You can't have both. Do a thorough preflight or ignore safety.

As long as lists are posted on message boards to instruct union membership on items that are specific problem areas above and beyond that of what you are taught in in initial or recurrent, there will be courts stepping in and using those lists as proof of a designed and coordinated effort by union membership to slow down the operation. Every write up can be trended. Lists such as the one here can be matched up to the trending and provides evidence leading to court injunction.

Keep posting these folks... love to see them.

 

[fischman]

As long as lists are posted on message boards to instruct union membership on items that are specific problem areas above and beyond that of what you are taught in in initial or recurrent, there will be courts stepping in and using those lists as proof of a designed and coordinated effort by union membership to slow down the operation. Every write up can be trended. Lists such as the one here can be matched up to the trending and provides evidence leading to court injunction.

Keep posting these folks... love to see them.

This is proof of nothing. It is not an official union message. It is a pilot posting items to watch out for on preflight. It will mean nothing in a court of law.

At what point is a broken item to be ignored? BROKEN IS BROKEN. Sharing safety information is just being professional, and possibly saves lives. You wouldn't understand. You're just a pencil pusher. Leave the flying up to the professionals, and go ahead and keep thinking you are important.