For All You FLOPS BJ Pilots, a little memory lane action

[B19 Flyer]

Any college intern can trend....

Sonny boy??? I must have irritated you....good.

Where did you read that I would write up an aircraft that was not broke? What I said is that the crew is allowed to inspect the aircraft regardless if the item is on the checklist or not. The company has it stuck in their head, that there are all these illegal checklists everywhere, I have never carried one or saw another pilot with one. See, all that info is our heads. However, if I did carry one, I would show it to anyone who asked.

As far as the court cases, I don't care, I am a pilot not an attorney. Every item I have written up has been broke and a good write-up. Furthermore, I will pre-flight my aircraft exactly the same regardless of union and company relations. I am a professional and I pride my self on being a safe pilot. You are the type that would fly the broken airplane and end up killing yourself. This isn't about union and management issues, this is about safety.

Your response just cemented that you really have no idea what you are talking about!

The only thing that irritates me is your level of complete ignorance of what can happen on the famous game of "chicken" that union members play to slow down a company.

Let me restate myself in a method you may or may not understand. You go ahead and write anything up to your heart's content that you perceive to be unservicable or unairworthy.

Use any checklist you want, including those that you find on the web that are detailed to the point where items that are outside of the ordinary are detailed.

But, don't go whining when you discover that the company has been trending unusual write-ups from PICs that are out of the ordinary. These write-ups become outliers and stick out like a sore thumb. The more outliers you write up, the easier it is to trend and match up with what is lifted off the few public message boards that are out there.

There are a couple of unions and a number of pilots that have been personally sanctioned and fired over the years because they decided that what they chose to write up was fine by all the flight crews ahead of them but always seemed to be a problem when they took the airplane.

You can't hide from the trending or stats. If you are the only one writing up certain items and it happens on every aircraft you happen to fly, you are either calling the flight crew ahead of you stupid or you are the stupid one to think nobody can trend it or notice.

Once again, I encourage you to post those lists and complete your preflights in any manner you choose. If you want to think you can't get pulled aside, maybe you need to once again go through the history on these to see how hard the courts have come down on those individuals who have taken their perception to a level their co-workers haven't.

Oh, and one last note. I know exactly what I'm talking about. You are the one that thinks you are getting away with something based on your false security blanket that the PIC has the final word on a write up. You aren't, you just another union fool willing to be led down a primrose path.

 

[fob727]

union busting

uke: For you, B19
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qajBfEdzoE

 

[B19 Flyer]

uke: For you, B19
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qajBfEdzoE

I didn't bother looking at it but this is the best you can do? I laid the facts out and you have no response?

Didn't think so.. the truth hurts, doesn't it?

 

[fischman]

.. the truth hurts, doesn't it?

You would know.

 

[fob727]

I didn't bother looking at it but this is the best you can do? I laid the facts out and you have no response?

Didn't think so.. the truth hurts, doesn't it?

I didn't think you would look at the videos. You show how closeminded you are, and therefore your ignorance. The three videos expose exactly what you are doing here on these threads. You are a management bootlicker.uke: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=So_Fv4a9EPo

 

[Myster79]

The only thing that irritates me is your level of complete ignorance of what can happen on the famous game of "chicken" that union members play to slow down a company.

Let me restate myself in a method you may or may not understand. You go ahead and write anything up to your heart's content that you perceive to be unservicable or unairworthy.

Use any checklist you want, including those that you find on the web that are detailed to the point where items that are outside of the ordinary are detailed.

But, don't go whining when you discover that the company has been trending unusual write-ups from PICs that are out of the ordinary. These write-ups become outliers and stick out like a sore thumb. The more outliers you write up, the easier it is to trend and match up with what is lifted off the few public message boards that are out there.

There are a couple of unions and a number of pilots that have been personally sanctioned and fired over the years because they decided that what they chose to write up was fine by all the flight crews ahead of them but always seemed to be a problem when they took the airplane.

You can't hide from the trending or stats. If you are the only one writing up certain items and it happens on every aircraft you happen to fly, you are either calling the flight crew ahead of you stupid or you are the stupid one to think nobody can trend it or notice.

Once again, I encourage you to post those lists and complete your preflights in any manner you choose. If you want to think you can't get pulled aside, maybe you need to once again go through the history on these to see how hard the courts have come down on those individuals who have taken their perception to a level their co-workers haven't.

Oh, and one last note. I know exactly what I'm talking about. You are the one that thinks you are getting away with something based on your false security blanket that the PIC has the final word on a write up. You aren't, you just another union fool willing to be led down a primrose path.

B-19 they can trend whatever they want, I DON'T CARE!!! Furthermore, you keep bringing the union into this, why? When have I said anything about the union? This discussion was about safety. I realize now, you are to obtuse to understand and I am wasting my time.

You live a very sad life. All you do is sit around typing garbage about a company you supposedly have nothing to do with. The worst part is, your not even good at it.

We all know you are anti-union and that is fine with me. However, the union at Flight Options is not going away. We will either have a CBA or they will close the doors.

 

[B19 Flyer]

B-19 they can trend whatever they want, I DON'T CARE!!! Furthermore, you keep bringing the union into this, why? When have I said anything about the union? This discussion was about safety. I realize now, you are to obtuse to understand and I am wasting my time.

You live a very sad life. All you do is sit around typing garbage about a company you supposedly have nothing to do with. The worst part is, your not even good at it.

We all know you are anti-union and that is fine with me. However, the union at Flight Options is not going away. We will either have a CBA or they will close the doors.

The list on this thread is all about union activity and the childish people who think delaying flights by writing up insignificant items will somehow advance their cause toward completing a CBA. The fact is, it's all identifiable and if anybody involved in one of these campaigns thinks they are getting away with something they are doing nothing but kidding themselves.

Oh, and you're statement about having a CBA or closing the doors? Be careful what you ask for, right now all of us are lucky just to have jobs.

 

[fischman]

The list on this thread is all about union activity and the childish people who think delaying flights by writing up insignificant items will somehow advance their cause toward completing a CBA. That is NOT what the thread is about. That is what YOU THINK it is about. AGAIN, how insignificant does something need to be in order for it not to be written up? At what point is a broken item OK to fly? Here's a lesson for you non-pilot folks (B19). If a broken item is not on a "Minimum Equipment List" (MEL), then it MUST be written up in accordance with the Federal Aviation Regulations (FARs). That is the LAW, and something you seem to be OK with breaking. The fact is, it's all identifiable and if anybody involved in one of these campaigns thinks they are getting away with something they are doing nothing but kidding themselves. Ahh... Your Jedi mind tricks only work on the weak minded. Flying around in airplanes with undocumented broken items is ILLEGAL. The highest write up count for one airplane is 17 items. Guess what happened when I called in the write ups? The Maintenance Controller said, "That airplane sound like it's in bad shape. Thanks for letting us know about it. We'll get her fixed up."

Oh, and you're statement about having a CBA or closing the doors? Be careful what you ask for, right now all of us are lucky just to have jobs.

I would SERIOUSLY reconsider your stance on this issue. I don't know if you realize it or not, but you are advocating an ILLEGAL activity. I sincerely hope you are not pressuring your pilots to fly broken airplanes. Unfortunately, with your post history, I think you probably do.

Re-read the original post in this thread. There is NO mention of a union until YOU made it. There is NOTHING illegal about professionals exchanging safety info.

Your fear mongering isn't working.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Can't hide from facts fischman.

I would SERIOUSLY reconsider your stance on this issue. I don't know if you realize it or not, but you are advocating an ILLEGAL activity. I sincerely hope you are not pressuring your pilots to fly broken airplanes. Unfortunately, with your post history, I think you probably do.

Re-read the original post in this thread. There is NO mention of a union until YOU made it. There is NOTHING illegal about professionals exchanging safety info.

Your fear mongering isn't working.

I'm not advocating any illegal activity.

I'm only telling you that matching lists against statisitcal outliers either shows the pilots are currently missing items that should be written up and aren't, or that pilots are engaging in a write-up campaign geared to slow the carrier down.

Statistical outliers are used in court everyday as evidence. It's not your call, it's the company and the court. So far, the courts have supported the company and individual pilots have even been sanctioned for their behavior. Fact.

 

[fischman]

I'm not advocating any illegal activity.

I'm only telling you that matching lists against statistical outliers either shows the pilots are currently missing items that should be written up and aren't, or that pilots are engaging in a write-up campaign geared to slow the carrier down.

Statistical outliers are used in court everyday as evidence. It's not your call, it's the company and the court. So far, the courts have supported the company and individual pilots have even been sanctioned for their behavior. Fact.

That's right. You can't hide from the facts.

The fact is, and this is the last time I'm going to tell you this, if an item is broke it needs to be documented in an MEL or fixed. THAT IS THE LAW.

If you aren't advocating illegal activity (which you have been in your previous posts), what would you suggest a pilot do when he comes across something on this list that is broken? Should he call it in, or fly it because he is worried about court action? (WHICH IS ILLEGAL!!!!)

Seriously. What would you suggest?

 

[B19 Flyer]

All the other pilots must be wrong, eh?

That's right. You can't hide from the facts.

The fact is, and this is the last time I'm going to tell you this, if an item is broke it needs to be documented in an MEL or fixed. THAT IS THE LAW.

If you aren't advocating illegal activity (which you have been in your previous posts), what would you suggest a pilot do when he comes across something on this list that is broken? Should he call it in, or fly it because he is worried about court action? (WHICH IS ILLEGAL!!!!)

Seriously. What would you suggest?

Basically what you are telling me is all your fellow pilots are idiots because they don't preflight to the same standard as you.

I would suggest that you get together with your fleet manager to make sure ALL THE PILOTS write up the same things at the same time.

That way you won't be personally picked on as part of the lawsuit as the only guy that does it the "right way" because your write-ups trend as outliers.

It must be strange that only a few pilots preflight correctly and the crew ahead of you just happened to miss the 16 items. Do you complain about the previous crew as being sloppy?

 

[brokeflyer]

you can take your lawsuit gestapo tactics and stuff them up your tight management azz.

Stick to what you know, destroying people's lives for you own gain.

When it comes to safety i've 8itch slapped managers a lot tougher than you. Just keep quiet rookie, let the pro's do their jobs.

cya around

 

[fischman]

Basically what you are telling me is all your fellow pilots are idiots because they don't preflight to the same standard as you.

I would suggest that you get together with your fleet manager to make sure ALL THE PILOTS write up the same things at the same time.

That way you won't be personally picked on as part of the lawsuit as the only guy that does it the "right way" because your write-ups trend as outliers.

It must be strange that only a few pilots preflight correctly and the crew ahead of you just happened to miss the 16 items. Do you complain about the previous crew as being sloppy?

That's not what I said. You are putting words into my mouth. Please stop.

What I am saying is this thread is a safety reminder to fellow professionals.

YOU are the one who mentioned unions, or any job action.

 

[skanza]

That's not what I said. You are putting words into my mouth. Please stop.

What I am saying is this thread is a safety reminder to fellow professionals. OK so, let's try this question: Why, if your statement here is true, is the list posted by obvious pro-union people, during a period when negotiations are not going "your way" and posted on an anonymous message board? If you really cared about safety, you would use the proper channels to disseminate your information. You are also undermining the training by Flight Safety or CAE that you have received by coming up with your own "preflight".

YOU are the one who mentioned unions, or any job action.

Also, why is the thread called "For all you FLOPS BJ pilots, a little trip down memory lane action"? If your intent was safety, wouldn't you call the thread something like: "All Beechjet flight crew, here are some helpful items for you to check on your preflight." ?
I don't think you can answer these questions convincingly, you're done.

 

[fischman]

How would you have titled it?

There was no mention of Unions until B19 brought it up, then he tried his typical management strong arm tactics by trying to scare pilots out of writing up broken airplanes. You guys are the ones who are on the wrong side of the law here. Not me.

Also, I never got an answer to the questions I posed. What would YOU say to these?

That's right. You can't hide from the facts.

The fact is, and this is the last time I'm going to tell you this, if an item is broke it needs to be documented in an MEL or fixed. THAT IS THE LAW.

If you aren't advocating illegal activity (which you have been in your previous posts), what would you suggest a pilot do when he comes across something on this list that is broken? Should he call it in, or fly it because he is worried about court action? (WHICH IS ILLEGAL!!!!)

Seriously. What would you suggest?

B19 chose to ignore them, will Skanza as well? What say you?

 

[fischman]

Also, why is the thread called "For all you FLOPS BJ pilots, a little trip down memory lane action"? If your intent was safety, wouldn't you call the thread something like: "All Beechjet flight crew, here are some helpful items for you to check on your preflight." ?
I don't think you can answer these questions convincingly, you're done.

You'd have to ask the author that. I didn't start it. The bottom line is that you are the one who thinks he sees nefarious deeds being done. Are you always this paranoid? I am ACTUALLY documenting B19 advocating illegal activity.

 

[brokeflyer]

Also, why is the thread called "For all you FLOPS BJ pilots, a little trip down memory lane action"? If your intent was safety, wouldn't you call the thread something like: "All Beechjet flight crew, here are some helpful items for you to check on your preflight." ?
I don't think you can answer these questions convincingly, you're done.

It was done like that just to p1ss you off. You need to calm down and just relax a bit.

You just spend more time thinking about yourself and little less time about what the Captain is doing.

 

[skanza]

Also, why is the thread called "For all you FLOPS BJ pilots, a little trip down memory lane action"? If your intent was safety, wouldn't you call the thread something like: "All Beechjet flight crew, here are some helpful items for you to check on your preflight." ?
I don't think you can answer these questions convincingly, you're done.

Well see, my questions have not been answered. I know yuo're not the author, fisch. Maybe BAYL... I mean dimeline can answer these questions since he started the thread. Until then, the circumstances that make this posting questionable are overwhelming. I don't think he, or anyone will address these questions (see quoted post above) because the mentality will prevent it . I guess we're all just wasting our time debating this here.....

 

[fischman]

What do you expect? It's flightinfo.

As B19 says, it's for entertainment only. I personally enjoy a good debate. I'm curious to read your response to my questions.

 

[dime line]

I really did it to see Skumza whine about it on page 18 of this thread. I actually was planning on page 20 but I will have to adjust my plan for page 18.

Is this really all you can bbich about. That list isn't illegal, any of those items are PIC responsible items.