FO/Flex how would you vote to integrate??

[johnsonrod]

Seniority by age - youngest on top.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

TWA, I have wondered about operational control as well. Could you please explain how that works cross company? Thank you! :beer:

VP of operations is not a FAR 119 mandated position so that person doesn't have to have operational control.

To have operational control the person has yo be a direct employee of the company per FAR 135.23.

JW can be the VP of operations for FO but not have operational control since the position is not FAA mandated.

 

[The Architect]

Still Wrong

3/3 KS, the VP of FO left for Constant Aviation.

JW was named VP of the closed fleet that day which includes FO and FJ.

JW reports to DW.

Not sure how much clearer ths can be.

You guys seem to be in denial.

Look JM, you don't have titles right. You don't understand that structure at Flight Options. And you certainly are considered very bias.

So, as hard as it is. For right now, you are WRONG, with the exception of KS leaving.

You are drawing lines that don't exist right now. I'm not sure why. Are you just trying to show that some sort of new power exists? Are you trying to make Flight Options pilot inferior? What is this insane motivation to push "our bosses now run you boys?"

Everyone is entitled to their opinions and choices. As it should be. But the facts are the facts.

RIGHT NOW:

JS is VP of Flight Operations at Flight Options and has oversight and control of all Flight Options pilots.
DW does not have oversight or control of any Flight Options pilots.
JW is NOT VP of Operations at Flight Options.

Again, this will probably change. But that is how it is NOW.

And if anyone tells you different...well, they are a LIAR.

Now, you want to talk about seniority integration? How does it feel to have 90FX and 91FX flown by 3 Flight Options pilots (2 management, 1 former management) right out of the gate? How's that contract and bid process working for you?

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

Now, you want to talk about seniority integration? How does it feel to have 90FX and 91FX flown by 3 Flight Options pilots (2 management, 1 former management) right out of the gate? How's that contract and bid process working for you?

Those aircraft are being operated outside of the FJ program.

I have zero desire to fly an ultra long haul aircraft on long international trips. I didn't apply for the position so I could care less who gets the jobs.

The Global program doesn't fall under our agreement. I just hope those who crew those aircraft enjoy their new jobs.

 

[The Architect]

Again

Those aircraft are being operated outside of the FJ program.

Tell that to everyone when they are added to the Flexjet certificate. Or maybe the Onesky certificate.

How do you think they are going to be marketed? Are they going to have their own sales team, CAM's, dispatchers, etc.?

Nope.

 

[albatros101]

Only 2 FJ pilots applied for the Global. That says something about FJ, Just saying..

 

[slowtation capt]

Those aircraft are being operated outside of the FJ program.

I have zero desire to fly an ultra long haul aircraft on long international trips. I didn't apply for the position so I could care less who gets the jobs.

The Global program doesn't fall under our agreement. I just hope those who crew those aircraft enjoy their new jobs.

181CR is operated outside of the Flops fleet, however it is on our certificate and dispatched from our schedulers.
How's it feel to have old beat Globals with an FX tail # that are owned by Nextant Aerospace.

 

[CL300Pilot]

Only 2 FJ pilots applied for the Global. That says something about FJ, Just saying..

No offense, but this statement is not true. Only 2 FJ pilots were open to moving to where ever the plane was going to be based. I have already had this discussion with RH.

Guys, in regards to TWA, he is telling you exactly what we are being told on the FJ side. I know the man and respect him very much. He is speaking the truth about what we are being told by not only DW but KR as well. He is very much anti-union and is entitled to his opinion just as you and everyone else is. The fact of the matter is, union or no union, each and everyone of us are merely along for the ride because only KR knows the big picture now. I for one as many of the FJ pilots remain cautiously optimistic.

At the end of the day, I only hope the we, FJ and FO pilots are able to get together and enjoy dinner and drinks as co-workers and not us and them.

 

[CL300Pilot]

181CR is operated outside of the Flops fleet, however it is on our certificate and dispatched from our schedulers.
How's it feel to have old beat Globals with an FX tail # that are owned by Nextant Aerospace.

slow, does it really matter if this puts both of our companies on a track to compete against NJA for market share in the fractional business?

 

[slowtation capt]

slow, does it really matter if this puts both of our companies on a track to compete against NJA for market share in the fractional business?

It does not.
It shows how KR operates, so if you want to believe him that voting no for the Union will allow you guys to stay seperate from Flops.
I know I don't believe him.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

181CR is operated outside of the Flops fleet, however it is on our certificate and dispatched from our schedulers.
How's it feel to have old beat Globals with an FX tail # that are owned by Nextant Aerospace.

Not sure why I would have a feeling one way or the other about it. We all had the opportunity to put in to fly the Global.

Since I wasn't interested in it I didn't spend that much of my time becoming familiar with all the details on the program.

I thought FJ had purchased the Globals, but if you say Nextant did then I guess you care more about this program that I do since you appear to have done some research.

There are way more important things to me right now than 2 Globals being flown by a mix of FO and FJ pilots. I hope the program is a success so FJ can order more ultra long range aircraft since that is a market that lacks competition.

 

[The Architect]

FO or FJ

There are way more important things to me right now than 2 Globals being flown by a mix of FO and FJ pilots.

At present, only Flight Options pilots are flying the Globals (with FX tail numbers). See how KR handles crewing his airplanes with his picks as he chooses.

I hope the program is a success so FJ can order more ultra long range aircraft since that is a market that lacks competition.

You previously said, "Those aircraft are being operated outside the FJ program."

Something change? Or did you finally get it right?

 

[The Architect]

Agreement vs. CBA

The Global program doesn't fall under our agreement. I just hope those who crew those aircraft enjoy their new jobs.

So aircraft can be put on the Flexjet certificate and flown by non-seniority listed pilots. Basically anything KR wants to put on the Flexjet certificate and anyone he chooses to fly it - happens. He picks and chooses. No bidding. No recognition of seniority.

So much for the "agreement" protecting your work.

Wait! Grieve it!

Never mind, your "agreement" doesn't have grievance procedures. Not a CBA by any means.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

At present, only Flight Options pilots are flying the Globals (with FX tail numbers). See how KR handles crewing his airplanes with his picks as he chooses.



You previously said, "Those aircraft are being operated outside the FJ program."

Something change? Or did you finally get it right?

Let me respond the way you guys are used to......

LIAR

2 FJ pilots have been offered positions on the Global. The truth hurts, doesn't it. Oh wait, you probably weren't aware of this fact. Instead of being a LIAR you are just uninformed.

Outside the FJ program means that currently we are not selling fractional shares on the Globals. They are only for upgrades from our current owners.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

So aircraft can be put on the Flexjet certificate and flown by non-seniority listed pilots. Basically anything KR wants to put on the Flexjet certificate and anyone he chooses to fly it - happens. He picks and chooses. No bidding. No recognition of seniority.

So much for the "agreement" protecting your work.

Wait! Grieve it!

Never mind, your "agreement" doesn't have grievance procedures. Not a CBA by any means.

The Globals are not on the FJ certificate. Educate yourself. They are being flown 135.

They are like a hybrid aircraft which we have previously had. The current aircraft we have like that is being flown by pilots who are not on our seniority list.

BTW, how is your grievance going regarding us flying your charter trips? Hmmmmm. You grieved it and..........doesn't look to good.

You CBA also says we are in violation of your scope. And.................

I am VERY impressed by the strength of your union and CBA.

 

[slowtation capt]

BTW, how is your grievance going regarding us flying your charter trips? Hmmmmm. You grieved it and..........doesn't look to good

Are you in those meetings?
How do you know it doesn't look good?
What did you expect, for the grievance to be filed and the very next day resolved?

 

[el raton]

"Fear fear fear".

 

[The Architect]

Offered is not Hired

2 FJ pilots have been offered positions on the Global. The truth hurts, doesn't it. Oh wait, you probably weren't aware of this fact.

Offer - present or proffer (something) for (someone) to accept or reject as so desired.

Hired - to engage the personal services of for a set sum <hire a crew>

Offered. Not hired.

You tell me JM. Does the truth hurt?

And I didn't call YOU a LIAR.

 

[wingsnthings]

Offer - present or proffer (something) for (someone) to accept or reject as so desired.

Hired - to engage the personal services of for a set sum <hire a crew>

Offered. Not hired.

You tell me JM. Does the truth hurt?

And I didn't call YOU a LIAR.

If they accept the offer, then they would be hired. Or I am missing something!? Not sure what the point of this post is.

 

[The Architect]

Weak

BTW, how is your grievance going regarding us flying your charter trips? Hmmmmm. You grieved it and..........doesn't look to good.

You CBA also says we are in violation of your scope. And.................

I am VERY impressed by the strength of your union and CBA.

Not my grievance. But an intelligent individual would hope that it would get settled. That's the best for everyone involved.

Who's we? Flexjet? Because Flexjet hasn't violated anything as far as I know. They are not party to the CBA. But I guess YOU would feel good if YOU could say that YOU violated the CBA.

Glad the IBT impresses you! I'm sure they appreciate your vote of confidence.

Funny how people divert topics and throw stones in other areas when they are in a loosing battle.

 

[The Architect]

Explanation

If they except the offer, then they would be hired. Or I am missing something!? Not sure what the point of this post is.

Simple.

Offered is not hired.

No lies here.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

Simple.

Offered is not hired.

No lies here.

Ok, let me put it another way.

2 FJ pilots have been HIRED to fly the Globals, they just haven't started class yet.

Not sure what you are fishing for. Seems like anything a FJ pilot says something you guys try to discredit it.

 

[slowtation capt]

Ok, let me put it another way.

2 FJ pilots have been HIRED to fly the Globals, they just haven't started class yet.

Not sure what you are fishing for. Seems like anything a FJ pilot says something you guys try to discredit it.

To fly is the key, they weren't given the Chief positions.
The Chiefs are the special CGF office people
Those guys have all ready gone or are going through school
KR places the people he wants into the positions that he wants.
The global's do not fall under our contract at this time.
This is something that you can expect to happen if we vote out the union.
KR will put people where he likes, give people that he likes special salaries, etc....
Maybe this is exactly what you want? Are you hoping for a PSM position or higher if they decide to move ops to Dallas? Is that what you are positioning yourself for?

 

[Fresh Air]

Ok, let me put it another way.

2 FJ pilots have been HIRED to fly the Globals, they just haven't started class yet.

Not sure what you are fishing for. Seems like anything a FJ pilot says something you guys try to discredit it.

As out of character as it may seem, TWA has actually made a true statement here. The hiring of those FJ pilots for the Global program will be announced soon.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

To fly is the key, they weren't given the Chief positions.
The Chiefs are the special CGF office people
Those guys have all ready gone or are going through school
KR places the people he wants into the positions that he wants.
The global's do not fall under our contract at this time.
This is something that you can expect to happen if we vote out the union.
KR will put people where he likes, give people that he likes special salaries, etc....
Maybe this is exactly what you want? Are you hoping for a PSM position or higher if they decide to move ops to Dallas? Is that what you are positioning yourself for?

Wrong again.

Man, this is becoming fun.

One of the FJ pilots was given one of the assistant chief positions.

No idea what a PSM is. I am very happy with my current job and have no aspirations of an office management job. I really don't want to spend 90% of my time dealing with the 5% of the pilots that spend more time being difficult than just doing their job.

Unfortunately some people have forgotten that we get paid to fly airplanes.

 

[The Architect]

Now it will

As out of character as it may seem, TWA has actually made a true statement here. The hiring of those FJ pilots for the Global program will be announced soon.

Funny.

No doubt.

After he reports back, it will probably be announced.

Then the discussion can continue about the 3 Flight Options and 2 Flexjet pilots flying the Global.

 

[slowtation capt]

One of the FJ pilots was given one of the assistant
chief positions.

That's right, to one of Ricci's boys.

 

[slowtation capt]

No idea what a PSM is.

For someone that has ALL the answers, I bet you know what a PSM is

 

[slowtation capt]

I really don't want to spend 90% of my time dealing with the 5% of the pilots that spend more time being difficult than just doing their job.

Unfortunately some people have forgotten that we get paid to fly airplanes.

You so funny!!! You crack me up!!!!
If you saw my trip summaries for last weeks rotation, I didn't have any time for being difficult, funny I never do seem to have time for being difficult, because I am not difficult. I know what my job is, and I perform that job to a high standard, day in, day out, 14/10. After 15 years of service, I want to keep what I have fought for year after year, because I know it will come crumbling down the minute this union is voted out.

 

[The Architect]

Not a bad job

No idea what a PSM is. I am very happy with my current job and have no aspirations of an office management job. I really don't want to spend 90% of my time dealing with the 5% of the pilots that spend more time being difficult than just doing their job.

What's wrong with that job? Not a bad view in that little corner office. And you seldom have to deal with a pilot in person. Easy breezy.

So, approximately 16 Flexjet pilots are being difficult. That's not bad. Would definitely be an easy job.

You should reconsider.