Flex's Response?

[TurboJetCpt]

If you hired in 98 then you upgraded in less then a year. It was the poor guys who hired after Feb 2000 that were lied to in the interview. Anyone hired before that had a quick upgrade. I think you need to check your dates.

Not quite. Quick upgrades were handed out through the end of 2003. I was hired in early 2002 and upgraded in one month...they were sending out 20 bids for Ultra Captain every 2 weeks and couldn't fill the demand. Now if you were in a nicer airplaned and you were waiting for that quick Falcon upgrade, well that has never happened here.

 

[Pervis]

And with the folks at IBT 1108, we at flex could get a good contract, in just under what, 4 years?? No thanks. In all fairness, I'm really glad NJ got what they got, it can only benefit everyone.

Most of us don't count the first three years of negotiations from the previous inept leadership. We started getting serious in Feb of this year, and it only took nine months to get this far. Before the last election in 2004, we had no union leadership at all. One thing I will say about the last group, they created more unity than anyone thought possible, although it was purely coincidental. They had no clue what they were doing.

 

[Just Peachy]

Unions

I agree Pervis... the previous group was in way over their head... and no results were forthcoming. The strong union group was a 180 turn and it did shake up mgmt.

However, and Olsen has said it many times, the strength gomes from the pilot group, like fly the pledge. That gave Olsen the clout he needed to change mgmts offers.

So in nine months we got some serious change. Not all we wanted but leaps and bounds over what the company was offering.

And for you guys poo-pooing unions, show me one major carrier operating without one.......

 

[Lear70]

Not quite. Quick upgrades were handed out through the end of 2003. I was hired in early 2002 and upgraded in one month...they were sending out 20 bids for Ultra Captain every 2 weeks and couldn't fill the demand. Now if you were in a nicer airplaned and you were waiting for that quick Falcon upgrade, well that has never happened here.

I think Vixin is talking about upgrade at Flexjet, not NJA.And Vixin, you're absolutely right, upgrades were quick in '98 and '99, I had my date range correct, I was referring to the sarcastic management quote about quick upgrades from the interview. The sarcasm made it sound like the upgrade didn't happen quick and, at THAT time, it did.

 

[vixin]

LR70,

I was refering to Semore Butts. And yes you are correct I was also talking about Flex as Semore was. They lied to everyone From 2000 on about upgrades. KP just needed to fill the classes and would tell you what you wanted to hear to get you on.

"I hope the company will do the right thing. We're not asking for that much to begin with. Vixin, do you think they'll match what Citation Shares got??"
Cosmo,
Again my friend you are new here. Not that you should not be entitled to your opinion, but they have ALOT of work to do. The CAB boys did not do all their homework. They missed a few important points. Flex needs to keep us happy. I am thinking positive until I hear what they have to offer. If we dont like it then we will see what happens. The match is a small price for Flex and Bombardier to pay. I really do think they will be there with NJ and CS.

 

[Semore Butts]

Vixen, you are completely correct

I was hired Dec 98, told 8 to 10 months to upgrade. Started training Feb, 99.

 

[G100driver]

And with the folks at IBT 1108, we at flex could get a good contract, in just under what, 4 years?? No thanks. In all fairness, I'm really glad NJ got what they got, it can only benefit everyone.

Cosmo, you seem to be a leader in your group, but at the same time you have a problems with unions. While that it is understandable given some of the bad press unions have gotten over time you might want to really reconsider your stance.

If you are to be a leader within an organization that is resistant to change perhaps the best way to slow change is to kill the leadership. A union will make this much more difficult. A union will protect YOU and level the playing field. Management should not hold all of the power. They cannot run a business without you, but it needs to be fair.

Good luck with your uphill battle. Rememeber, it is more than just dollars and cents. You need to improve work rules as well.

 

[Semore Butts]

Semore fu*&(ked up again!

Vixen PM'ed me saying I was a year off.

She is correct, I'm sorry, I was hired Dec 99, and started Feb 2000.

I didn't mean to decieve anyone. What I said about the interview is true (8 to 10 months to upgrade).

I do not mean to ridicule anyone at Flex. I have a lot of buddies there.

 

[vixin]

In this case semore ridicule HR all you want. They lied to the poor new hires in that time frame. They needed to fill their classes and would say anything to get people in the door. They have learned from that leason however. Lets hope I will be able to buy some NJ guys beers.

Vixin

 

[CL300Pilot]

Hypothetical Question to the NJA guys...

Lets say that Bombardier decides that giving the Flex guys a raise would be detrimental to their bottom line and decide the sell them off. NJA decides that they want to buy them. The sale goes through and all of the Flex guys are now NJA guys and a part of the union. What happens to the seniority level at Flex? How are the aircraft that are currently being operated staffed? Just curious to see what people think. I personally don't want to see that happen since competition is great for the business.

 

[miles otoole]

Lets say that Bombardier decides that giving the Flex guys a raise would be detrimental to their bottom line and decide the sell them off. NJA decides that they want to buy them. The sale goes through and all of the Flex guys are now NJA guys and a part of the union. What happens to the seniority level at Flex? How are the aircraft that are currently being operated staffed? Just curious to see what people think. I personally don't want to see that happen since competition is great for the business.

A more likely scenario, Let's say NJA realizes the raises they have doled out are indeed detrimental to their bottom line and BRK sells them to CS or Flex. The sale goes through and all the NJA guys are now no longer part of a union company. What happens to NJA seniority?

 

[Fozzy]

Miles,
Get a clue. You buy the whole package, company, union and contract. That is the way it is.

 

[cosmotheassman]

Fozzy, keep telling yourself that....

Vixin, you don't have to continue to remind me that I'm new. The fact that I'm new doesn't belittle my opinion like you think it does. I'm an equal voice whether I've been here a week or 10 years. Work with us not against us. Your attitude troubles me.

 

[vixin]

deleted....

 

[CL300Pilot]

Question for Vixin...

For us "newbies", can you clue me in to what is real bad about Flex? Before I hired on, I spoke with several lear pilots, both FO's and Cpt's, and all they would say was that being gone 6 days stunk and so does PBS. Six days is a long time, but if we wanted to be home every night, we would either be EMS pilots or not flying in the fractional side. I am not trying to start a fight, just wanting to learn more about Flex that I have yet to see or hear. Thanks.


PS. If you wish to PM me instead of posting here, that is ok as well.

 

[nipper]

N00bs - stop comparing this job to your last (crappy) job. I don't want my QOL compared to your previous $hi##y job! I have put a fair amount of time in here and I want to see improvement. I'm living a real life with a real family; not playing house and chasing around the latest piece-of-as$ saying "I'm a super-duper pilot. Wanna play the humpa humpa dance with me and listen to Justin and Brittany CDs?" The people who built this company don't want to hear your opinion.

And Flex buy NJ? Ha! Why and How?!

 

[Peter_Griffin]

What I am really surprised about is the lack of intel here on this board and on the BB (but somehow some of us get the impression that the CAB did their homework -- from where do we get these specifics -- I was just on the BB and couldn't find any evidence of that)?

Anyway, with working a long days from coast to coast, hanging out with a few other crews this past week and some holiday get together chitter chatters, I have heard a lot of stuff. According to people who were present at the CAB meeting this is it:

The ONLY thing presented to Montreal for approval (i.e. for the announcement next week) is to cut us back to 15 days. Period. That's the ONLY thing...

So no pay raises, no duty time reductions, no changes to overtime or holiday pay, no changes to schedules (i.e. no 7/7), none of the other stuff we have been asking for -- even the small stuff like switching to miles cards...

Surely I am not the only one who has heard this since jaws are flapping away everywhere I have been this week. The only other thing I heard (but is not related to NJA match negotiations) was that they are possibly looking to upgrade down through 2002 pilots, but that will mean a lot of new hires, so... Anyone else?

Even though this puts me in a good upgrade position I am outta here without a doubt. I have a family to look out for and can't put up with the BS. Hopefully I will be able to stick around long enough to send in my UNION card for the next vote with a big fat checkmark in the YES box.

If this is true I do not see how anyone, philosophically against unions or not, could not agree that one is needed at Flex. DG, MM et al is gonna continue to stock the executive bathroom with that special pilot group toilet paper if we don't stick up for ourselves guys... This is ridiculous.

15 days -- THAT IS IT !??! WTF?????

 

[vixin]

Nipper well said except, I still dont mind hearing from newbies, just they do not have a clue.

 

[Just Peachy]

work

So.... 15 days of work...Dat Be It? and Dat Be out of 28 days?

Hell of a deal... for mgmt!! I worked there 5 years and its never gotten any better. uke:

 

[Sparse]

Miles,
Get a clue. You buy the whole package, company, union and contract. That is the way it is.

Maybe you should ask some of the Pan Am pilots about that when Delta bought Pan Am. The only ones that came over were 727 and A-315 pilots. No recognition of senoirity. You buy what you negotiate to buy.