Flex's Response?

[twincessna]

December 13 is more than 6 days away

 

[flighter]

In the WSJ today it was reported Bombardier/Flex made a profit in 2005. Fella's it's time for them to show you the money!!!!!!!!!

 

[cosmotheassman]

Oh yeah. the 13th. what a moron I am. That's what being out for 6 days at a time does to you.

 

[Cpt Splash]

Just spoke to one of my buddies from Flex down at the training center and it seems that the mass exodus is starting already.

Bombardier is also shutting down both LR45 Sims starting mid Jan for Maintenance for six weeks and had to cancel a whole bunch of recurrent classes. I wonder if Flex plans on hiring only people into the 300 during this time.

I really hope you guys get the pay and schedule you deserve. There are a lot of people at Flex that I used to fly with who really need management to step up to the plate and offer something competative.

Anybody at Flex that are looking for something PM me.

 

[cosmotheassman]

Of course mass exodus does equate to quick upgrade time! 6 weeks for maint? That doesn't sound right. They can build a sim in 6 weeks!

If you know any global express positions with about 18 days off a month and $100k PM me!!

 

[Peter_Griffin]

This is purely a guess but, I bet we get a pay raise with no change in work days. We'll keep the 17 days a month and maybe see a good pay raise. I suppose if that happens though the raise better be significant or there might be a mass exodus from what I've been hearing.

Dude -- there is no way. Look at the CAB meeting notes on the BB and what you are talking about isn't even on the radar. It's pretty clear what they are thinking about is a schedule reduction (to possibly 15) with no pay raise, no extra benies etc....

The only thing that might change the course of events is the fact that the positive profit report came out just before all this. They can't very well say they can't afford it if they clearly can, but this is flex we are talking about so I think they will try to cry poor... We'll see... People are already leaving in droves and I expect that number will only increase after the 13th. I hope I am wrong... I hope that management is going to see they can't get away with it and switch up the game plan in time to keep some really good guys.

 

[cosmotheassman]

I'm just trying to be positive. A schedule reduction to 15 with the same annual pay IS a raise dude. Be positive about this. Negative thinking can only set your standard lower. Personally I would like to see NJ+. But I think we all know that won't happen. But, what if it does?? Mr Griffin, what will you say if they match NJ pay scale??? Will you be excited or will you still be upset with something?

 

[miles otoole]

Dude -- there is no way. Look at the CAB meeting notes on the BB and what you are talking about isn't even on the radar. It's pretty clear what they are thinking about is a schedule reduction (to possibly 15) with no pay raise, no extra benies etc....

The only thing that might change the course of events is the fact that the positive profit report came out just before all this. They can't very well say they can't afford it if they clearly can, but this is flex we are talking about so I think they will try to cry poor... We'll see... People are already leaving in droves and I expect that number will only increase after the 13th. I hope I am wrong... I hope that management is going to see they can't get away with it and switch up the game plan in time to keep some really good guys.

Am I missing something? A company 10 times the size, announces a pay raise and other companies pilots are immediately complaining because they haven't matched? This sounds like many of my buds from WN who quit as soon as UA and DAL announced industry leading pay scales in 2001.
As I remember, Leo Mullin from DAL said he wanted to give the pilots a pay raise because they deserved it and then left 2 years later with his pension intact and stated that there's no way the company could afford it.
Just maybe, they are waiting for the less than loyal folks to leave before they give those who stay a pay raise? Wasn't it just a few years ago that nobody expected Net jets to raise their payscale? How many have left since then?
Flex jets announces, what, a profit of $1,000,000 and the pilots want $20,000,000? How does that make sense?

 

[Lear70]

I always found it amusing how Flexjet separated their sales income from their operating income on statements to the pilot group.

During our first "major" pilot meeting in 1998 they came right out and said, "Folks, our goal at this company is to SELL AIRPLANES! We aren't in the business of making a profit off operations, we just want to break even."

In other words, you have more bargaining power than you realize when the SALES side of the house makes TENS OF MILLIONS A YEAR in NET profits off Flexjet sales. If you organize into a union group (which I believe you should), you can hold out for NetJets wages, simply because BOMBARDIER IS NOT WILLING TO LOSE THAT INCOME STREAM.

They WILL raise fees, raise percentage of sales profits that go to Flex, WHATEVER THEY NEED TO DO in order to keep the income stream coming.

You guys need to look at the "Big Picture".

 

[el raton]

I'm just trying to be positive. A schedule reduction to 15 with the same annual pay IS a raise dude. Be positive about this. Negative thinking can only set your standard lower. Personally I would like to see NJ+. But I think we all know that won't happen. But, what if it does?? Mr Griffin, what will you say if they match NJ pay scale??? Will you be excited or will you still be upset with something?

Wouldn't be nice to have a union then we could avoid this kind of attitude. We could actually have some representation that would give a thumbs up or down to a bone thrown to us. We don't have a choice in what we can or cannot except. The only thing we have going for us is attrition and increasing charter....

 

[cosmotheassman]

Elraton,

You know what sucks about unionizing? If we voted a union in today, it would be minimum 3 years before anything changed. The company would freeze our current pay rates and, everything from then on would have to be fought for. Unionizing would stagnate everything.

 

[el raton]

Cosmo,
How long do you want to work at Flex? if it's a short time I agree, it wouldn't be worth the trouble. 3 years is worth the trouble if it makes this job into a place worth staying at for a career. Don't worry there is no one at flex thats has the guts to do the work to bring a union here

 

[hammer2]

All of you Flex people should shut up and go to nja. You have the best company, best airplanes, you really don't work that hard. You make a lot of money, they feed you everyday, management has turned flex around, they are making a profit now. I wish all I had to work was a 16 day line. I got a better idea go to work flying freight for awhile. Be thankful for the job you have, bunch of idiots. el raton your the biggest idiot on this whole board!!!!!!!!!! Cosmo you got the right idea

 

[twincessna]

Come and work here for a while mr hammer2 before you start calling people idiots. I did fly freight for over 5 years. We work harder than you think.

 

[hammer2]

I do work here, flew freight for years, thankful to be here. Be happy with the job you have or leave. This will be the # 1 frac shortly.

 

[el raton]

hammer2= idiot flamebait

 

[Necromonger]

Great.

I do work here, flew freight for years, thankful to be here. Be happy with the job you have or leave. This will be the # 1 frac shortly.

OK, Office Puke.uke:

What ever!!!

Hey, go cook some more cookies. I hear they love Choc.Chip. Then, you can sit back and enjoy the sub par package presented at the Dog and Pony show on Dec.13. Or, wait for the "Road SHOW". By the way, I have tickets for sale. I can get you on the front row. You might just be dumb enough to buy one.

When we get the "Package", I hope we don't have to look around for Ashton Cutcher to see if we've just been "PUNKED".
:uzi:

 

[cosmotheassman]

Not to change the subject but did anyone notice that "Newflex" has disappeared from this board? Wonder what happened???

 

[TurboJetCpt]

Elraton,

You know what sucks about unionizing? If we voted a union in today, it would be minimum 3 years before anything changed. The company would freeze our current pay rates and, everything from then on would have to be fought for. Unionizing would stagnate everything.

Oh...and things are moving QUICKLY for you NOW ?

The problem with EVERYTHING you say on this board assboy is that when FACTS are presented into your argument...you lose.

 

[vixin]

Leave him alone he has shiney jet syndrome. He will see the light.

 

[Necromonger]

Oh...and things are moving QUICKLY for you NOW ?

The problem with EVERYTHING you say on this board assboy is that when FACTS are presented into your argument...you lose.

:uzi:
Thanx Turbo.

Cosmo, What has really changed in the last 3 years? 4years? 5years?

Same complaints. They just get shuffled around.

Keep drinkin' that Kool-Aide. We'll be tappin' a new keg shortly.
:beer:

 

[cosmotheassman]

If its been so bad for 5 years and you have "FACTS", why haven't any of you formed a union at flexjet yet? Fact is, you're in the minority, otherwise there would be a union. You talk a big game in here Vixin but, you have no teeth for a bite in reality. Your misery does not reflect the whole, go some place else if you're so miserable. None of you can be positive about anything because you are mental midgets. It's people like you that need unions so you can be yourself at work at not get fired for it. In fact, I'll make a deal with all of you. If the deal we get is grossly substandard (by NJ contract standards) I will admit defeat and be on the boat with you.

 

[CL604DRVR]

If its been so bad for 5 years and you have "FACTS", why haven't any of you formed a union at flexjet yet? Fact is, you're in the minority, otherwise there would be a union. You talk a big game in here Vixin but, you have no teeth for a bite in reality. Your misery does not reflect the whole, go some place else if you're so miserable. None of you can be positive about anything because you are mental midgets. It's people like you that need unions so you can be yourself at work at not get fired for it. In fact, I'll make a deal with all of you. If the deal we get is grossly substandard (by NJ contract standards) I will admit defeat and be on the boat with you.

Cruises begin sailing daily from DFW, FLL, TEB, & ONT on 12/14. Book early for best selection.

 

[Necromonger]

If its been so bad for 5 years and you have "FACTS", why haven't any of you formed a union at flexjet yet? Fact is, you're in the minority, otherwise there would be a union. You talk a big game in here Vixin but, you have no teeth for a bite in reality. Your misery does not reflect the whole, go some place else if you're so miserable. None of you can be positive about anything because you are mental midgets. It's people like you that need unions so you can be yourself at work at not get fired for it. In fact, I'll make a deal with all of you. If the deal we get is grossly substandard (by NJ contract standards) I will admit defeat and be on the boat with you.

OK...Cosmo.
I respect your trying to stay positive. That's great. The rest of us, in your so called minority, are just preparing for the same old song and dance.
The are alot of fence sitters out there from the last vote (UNION), who may be sent over the edge on Dec.13. We will see.
There are more of us out here than you think.imp:

 

[cosmotheassman]

Hey I'll be the first to admit I'm wrong if what we get is indeed worth jumping ship. All I'm saying is when you wanted to stay out late as a kid, did you ask your parents or did you threaten them and then ask? I just think putting positive pressure on management is a better tactic than making threats of a union. Threatening to unionize says, "you're gonna do what we say or else"

 

[Diesel]

Threatening to unionize will probably work. Everything else hasn't. What do you have to lose?

 

[Necromonger]

Oh No!

Hey I'll be the first to admit I'm wrong if what we get is indeed worth jumping ship. All I'm saying is when you wanted to stay out late as a kid, did you ask your parents or did you threaten them and then ask? I just think putting positive pressure on management is a better tactic than making threats of a union. Threatening to unionize says, "you're gonna do what we say or else"

Just when I think I'm done posting to you...You Drag me back in!

Just take the "COSMO" off your screen name. Yes, you are The A__ Man.
Are you really asking us to treat management like our parents?
OK.

Oh Big Daddy D.G. can I please have a raise? All the other kids are getting one. I promise to do my chores, and I even brushed my teeth today.



How long have you been at Flex? Do you have a clue to what has been happening over the last 5-6years?.....no....

Just sit there in the right seat pull the gear and SHUT UP!!!
:crying:

 

[Going2Baja]

Here's hoping that Flex gets an even BETTER deal than NJA. Keep raising that bar !!!

:beer:

Sounds like the Majors 8 years ago.....I REALLY hope it work out for the fractionals. I think the airline style lifestyle is over.

Tim.

 

[cosmotheassman]

Necro,

You're misinterpreting what I am saying about the parent analogy. Have some conceptual thinking before clamoring your thoughts.

Why would you wait around 5-6 years and continue to be miserable when you know it isn't going to get better? Be honest about why you've worked there for so long but continue to stay because, that sends a mixed message to me. I haven't been here as long as you so, "clue" me in on what's been going on.

Just sit there in the right seat pull the gear and SHUT UP!!!

Have some couth.

And by the way, dragging you back in is part of the fun for me! (Advocatus diaboli)!!

 

[gipper6]

Hey Hammer -
Thanks for calling everyone at FlexJet idiots. I'm certain you didn't forget to include yourself in that mix. It's single minded fools like you that keep the bar down for everyone. Fact is, "just happy to be here" doesn't cut it anymore. We have continually been told we're the best and should be rewarded for it. Cudos to CS management for raising the bar proactively. By the way - flying with guys like you has one positive aspect - total freedom from hero worship.