Flex's Response?

[miles otoole]

Lets say that Bombardier decides that giving the Flex guys a raise would be detrimental to their bottom line and decide the sell them off. NJA decides that they want to buy them. The sale goes through and all of the Flex guys are now NJA guys and a part of the union. What happens to the seniority level at Flex? How are the aircraft that are currently being operated staffed? Just curious to see what people think. I personally don't want to see that happen since competition is great for the business.

A more likely scenario, Let's say NJA realizes the raises they have doled out are indeed detrimental to their bottom line and BRK sells them to CS or Flex. The sale goes through and all the NJA guys are now no longer part of a union company. What happens to NJA seniority?

 

[Fozzy]

Miles,
Get a clue. You buy the whole package, company, union and contract. That is the way it is.

 

[cosmotheassman]

Fozzy, keep telling yourself that....

Vixin, you don't have to continue to remind me that I'm new. The fact that I'm new doesn't belittle my opinion like you think it does. I'm an equal voice whether I've been here a week or 10 years. Work with us not against us. Your attitude troubles me.

 

[vixin]

deleted....

 

[CL300Pilot]

Question for Vixin...

For us "newbies", can you clue me in to what is real bad about Flex? Before I hired on, I spoke with several lear pilots, both FO's and Cpt's, and all they would say was that being gone 6 days stunk and so does PBS. Six days is a long time, but if we wanted to be home every night, we would either be EMS pilots or not flying in the fractional side. I am not trying to start a fight, just wanting to learn more about Flex that I have yet to see or hear. Thanks.


PS. If you wish to PM me instead of posting here, that is ok as well.

 

[nipper]

N00bs - stop comparing this job to your last (crappy) job. I don't want my QOL compared to your previous $hi##y job! I have put a fair amount of time in here and I want to see improvement. I'm living a real life with a real family; not playing house and chasing around the latest piece-of-as$ saying "I'm a super-duper pilot. Wanna play the humpa humpa dance with me and listen to Justin and Brittany CDs?" The people who built this company don't want to hear your opinion.

And Flex buy NJ? Ha! Why and How?!

 

[Peter_Griffin]

What I am really surprised about is the lack of intel here on this board and on the BB (but somehow some of us get the impression that the CAB did their homework -- from where do we get these specifics -- I was just on the BB and couldn't find any evidence of that)?

Anyway, with working a long days from coast to coast, hanging out with a few other crews this past week and some holiday get together chitter chatters, I have heard a lot of stuff. According to people who were present at the CAB meeting this is it:

The ONLY thing presented to Montreal for approval (i.e. for the announcement next week) is to cut us back to 15 days. Period. That's the ONLY thing...

So no pay raises, no duty time reductions, no changes to overtime or holiday pay, no changes to schedules (i.e. no 7/7), none of the other stuff we have been asking for -- even the small stuff like switching to miles cards...

Surely I am not the only one who has heard this since jaws are flapping away everywhere I have been this week. The only other thing I heard (but is not related to NJA match negotiations) was that they are possibly looking to upgrade down through 2002 pilots, but that will mean a lot of new hires, so... Anyone else?

Even though this puts me in a good upgrade position I am outta here without a doubt. I have a family to look out for and can't put up with the BS. Hopefully I will be able to stick around long enough to send in my UNION card for the next vote with a big fat checkmark in the YES box.

If this is true I do not see how anyone, philosophically against unions or not, could not agree that one is needed at Flex. DG, MM et al is gonna continue to stock the executive bathroom with that special pilot group toilet paper if we don't stick up for ourselves guys... This is ridiculous.

15 days -- THAT IS IT !??! WTF?????

 

[vixin]

Nipper well said except, I still dont mind hearing from newbies, just they do not have a clue.

 

[Just Peachy]

work

So.... 15 days of work...Dat Be It? and Dat Be out of 28 days?

Hell of a deal... for mgmt!! I worked there 5 years and its never gotten any better. uke:

 

[Sparse]

Miles,
Get a clue. You buy the whole package, company, union and contract. That is the way it is.

Maybe you should ask some of the Pan Am pilots about that when Delta bought Pan Am. The only ones that came over were 727 and A-315 pilots. No recognition of senoirity. You buy what you negotiate to buy.

 

[CL300Pilot]

Peter......

The only other thing I heard (but is not related to NJA match negotiations) was that they are possibly looking to upgrade down through 2002 pilots, but that will mean a lot of new hires, so... Anyone else?

You say you have heard that they are looking to upgrade from the most current new hires to 2002? What could possibly be driving that type of demand? I just want to make sure I am understanding what you are hearing.

 

[Fozzy]

Okay, how about this. If this ever happens, I will start worrying about it. But until that time, I will enjoy the fruits of our labor. Enjoy a superior paycheck, QOL and benefits than any other frac out there. I won't have to wait for management to match + someone else's contract (hard work).

So Cosmo and the rest, you just keeping babbling away, and I will enjoy what my Union has gotten for me.

 

[Lear70]

Maybe you should ask some of the Pan Am pilots about that when Delta bought Pan Am. The only ones that came over were 727 and A-315 pilots. No recognition of senoirity. You buy what you negotiate to buy.

Sadly, incorrect. You need to do your homework better.

It's called a "successorship clause", and does indeed cover the labor groups IF, and that's a big IF, the company is purchased AS A WHOLE. Pan Am was not, it went bankrupt and sold off bits and pieces; THAT'S why only those pilots went over.

The big issue in every successorship clause from that point forward was that the company was FORCED to take the ENTIRE seniority list unless the company was liquidated and the assets sold by a bankruptcy court.

For instance, American would have LOVED not to have taken the TWA pilots in their purchase, but they HAD to because of the successorship language. Almost all of them are laid off, granted, but the pilots under 45 or so will eventually see AA property.

That said, I don't see NJA buying Flex or vice-versa - just no reason to. I also don't see Flex raising pay to match NJA.

On the union front, I don't like 'em. I think they're rackets, especially ALPA, lining Duane Woerth's pockets, but unfortunately they are a necessary evil in this industry. I hate to break it to you guys, but with your current management's mentality, it's going to take a union to FORCE change, they're not going to GIVE you jack sh*t.

 

[el raton]

Sadly, incorrect. You need to do your homework better.

It's called a "successorship clause", and does indeed cover the labor groups IF, and that's a big IF, the company is purchased AS A WHOLE. Pan Am was not, it went bankrupt and sold off bits and pieces; THAT'S why only those pilots went over.

The big issue in every successorship clause from that point forward was that the company was FORCED to take the ENTIRE seniority list unless the company was liquidated and the assets sold by a bankruptcy court.

For instance, American would have LOVED not to have taken the TWA pilots in their purchase, but they HAD to because of the successorship language. Almost all of them are laid off, granted, but the pilots under 45 or so will eventually see AA property.

That said, I don't see NJA buying Flex or vice-versa - just no reason to. I also don't see Flex raising pay to match NJA.

On the union front, I don't like 'em. I think they're rackets, especially ALPA, lining Duane Woerth's pockets, but unfortunately they are a necessary evil in this industry. I hate to break it to you guys, but with your current management's mentality, it's going to take a union to FORCE change, they're not going to GIVE you jack sh*t.

well said and amen

 

[cosmotheassman]

Well, we will know in just a week or so what the company is offering us so lets see what happens. If it's not good, then everyone bails right??