Flexjet Union Drive on the move

[FraxJockey]

STOP THE PRESS. FRAXJOCKEY EXPOSED!!! HAHAHAHA. HEY FRAXJOCKEY YOUR IDENTITY HAS BEEN REVEALED, WE KNOW WHO YOU ARE.

I won't lower myself by giving your name out here on this board but, be assured that your identity is KNOWN. Watch what you say on this forum. Several of us here know who you are now. You should learn to keep your mouth closed at work!

And why should I care about this?

Want proof that we know? Let me see, have you ever flown a 727?? HAHAHAHA!!!!

Do you have any idea how many guys at Flex have flown a 727?

 

[FraxJockey]

Funny thing is I know who quite a few people are on this board...too bad Cosmo had to resort to threats. Oh well, at least you think you know who I am.

 

[cosmotheassman]

It wasn't a threat.

 

[GEXDriver]

.

GEX, tsk, tsk.... I can't help but notice the inconsistency in your post (it doesn't add up.. ) in regards to Flt Ops. You tell Hogprint that there's no way he can know that Management never intended to give the pilots a raise (reality speaks for itself, had they wanted to they would have already) and then turn around and announce to the board--"Flight Options - they're already toast". As both opinions are based to a degree on guess work, it seems rather hypocritical for yours to be stated as a fact while you tell others there is no way they can know what seems self-evident. Actually, summing up past events is easier than predicting the future.

Nice attempt at dialectic, but I suggest you take a logic review before you try again.

It was apparent to even the casual observer that Flight Options management was trying to give their pilots a comparability raise in late January 2006, but this effort was stopped dead by the pilots organizing under the tutelege and encouragement of the Teamsters.

There was another group of pilots that were trying to form a FLOPs only group of pilots called FOPA to be constructed under the model of Southwest Airlines pilot group - SWAPA. In true Teamster thug fashion, these pilots were shouted down.

My FLOPs "is already toast" comment comes from quarter after quarter of reviewing Raytheon's Security and Exchange Commission 10Q quarterly reports. I do this because Raytheon and GD constitute the defense portion of my stock portfolio. During second quarter 2006, Flight Options lost $10 million. Their third quarter conference call will be on October 26, but the street is not forecasting a sudden surge to profitability for Flight Options.

Again, I was not suggesting any course of action to FLOPs pilots, their goose is already cooked. I was only suggesting that the Flex pilots do as I have done, observe the Flight Options pilots around the FBOs, talk to a few of them and see if that is really what they want. Even some of the union true believers (all due apologies to Eric Hoffer) at FLOPs are beginning to lose heart. Many FLOPS pilots are trying to go elsewhere.

Flex on the other hand, appears to be a cohesive group that is making some good market penetration and has begun a swing toward profitability, they actually have something to lose.

What puts you in the position of knowing how long it will take? When the NJ pilots woke up and took charge--voting in new leadership and digging in their heels--their contract was ratified by 11 months.

Absolutely nothing. What I said was, "even though it might take 4 years to get a contract like it did at NJA", which is speculation not an attempt at establishing a definitive time line. Even you have to admit that this is a possibility.

Note Bene: It has already been nearly 11 months in FLOP's attempt to get a contract and the clock is still running...

Actually, NJW if you listen to some of your own pilots they're not that happy. Seven days is a long time to be away when you have kids - you're missing half their lives. They don't like commuting, some have told me they could have just as easily been in the back on Comair at Lexington-Bluegrass. The new guys think the old guys threw them under the bus with the new domicile policy and a lot of guys are gripping about the repetitive extended duty days. It seems that your own organization could benefit from your tender mercies.

 

[EdAtTheAirport]

"Amen brotha! When I go into FBO's and I see a yellow tie and a union lanyard, I steer clear because I know inevitably what is going to be talked about...I too am sick and tired of hearing the bithching."

 

[FraxJockey]

Watch what you say on this forum.

Threat or not, why is my opinion so important to you that you feel I have to watch what I say? This is an anonymous board where anyone should feel free to post their VIEW whether it's popular or not. If every time I post something you are going to take it personally I'd rather not post anything at all. I'll let everyone believe what you have to say and not hear another point of view. I will be watching.... See on the line.

Frax

 

[CA1900]

The new guys think the old guys threw them under the bus with the new domicile policy...

I'm a new NJA guy, and I just talked with a guy who's been here quite a while. He said the same thing about them throwing the new guys "under the bus," in exchange for a bunch more money, and some guys kinda felt bad about it.

Know what I told him? I told him that, on the contrary, that big raise and the great work rules are why I applied for the job in the first place. I thanked him for the new contract, warts and all. It's why I'm here.

 

[cosmotheassman]

If every time I post something you are going to take it personally I'd rather not post anything at all.

Frax

Thank you, mission accomplished.... and I think I speak for the majority here.



VOTE THAT UNION IN BOYS!!!

 

[EdAtTheAirport]

So how do you explain your comments that I posted?

 

[GEXDriver]

Know what I told him? I told him that, on the contrary, that big raise and the great work rules are why I applied for the job in the first place. I thanked him for the new contract, warts and all. It's why I'm here.

That sounds like, "Thank you, Sir! May I have another?"

Some people like to dress up in leather or rubber and have some chica in spike heels and a mask beat their a$$, too.

But hey, I'm happy where I live - four seasons, crystal clear lakes, gentle hills and a 20 minute drive to work. All I was doing is repeating the comments of some of your NJA colleagues. It must be a popular sentiment if you've heard it, too.

 

[Ultra Grump]

Actually, NJW if you listen to some of your own pilots they're not that happy. Seven days is a long time to be away when you have kids - you're missing half their lives. They don't like commuting, some have told me they could have just as easily been in the back on Comair at Lexington-Bluegrass. The new guys think the old guys threw them under the bus with the new domicile policy and a lot of guys are gripping about the repetitive extended duty days. It seems that your own organization could benefit from your tender mercies.

The NJI, non-union guys are gone just as long. I never hear anyone complaining about the 7-7 schedule. Only the post-ratification-hires have to commute anymore, and if they live in domicile they don't have to do that. I've also never heard anyone "gripping" about extended days, because they pay well and many volunteer for them. Finally, nobody was "thrown under the bus" in the contract. Everyone hired post-ratification knew what they were getting into when they accepted the job.

In addition, the contract was the company's last, best, and final offer, and the domicile issue was inserted by the company. According to our negotiators and president, if we had voted it down, there was no certainty of any changes from the TA we were presented with, and could have regressed. So if anyone thinks we "threw them under the bus," they should think about how much worse it could be. They have what they have because we fought long and hard for it. They could be working under the old contract still, starting at a whopping $27k, like most of the rest of us did, and all on the 17-day schedule, instead of the horrible 7-7.

 

[GEXDriver]

I've also never heard anyone "gripping" about extended days, because they pay well and many volunteer for them.

"Gripping" is like really intense "griping".

I'd like to blame my keyboard for that gaffe, but actually it's my own literacy issues that are at fault.

 

[FraxJockey]

Thank you, mission accomplished.... and I think I speak for the majority here.

Don't worry Cosmo, we're like weeds. As soon as you pluck one out another grows in its place.

 

[gunfyter]

GEX,

Nothing prevents management from opening up Home basing to all the New hires. Like they do for NJI.

Why blame the Union? We asked for the same policy NJI has.

 

[Hogprint]

I don't know anything of the sort, and neither do you. It seemed to be a valid offer.

Again, my original post was just suggesting that Flex pilots take a look at what the Teamsters had done to Flops prior to sending their cards in. I was making no recommendations regarding Flight Options - they're already toast.

Flops is already losing money before operating expenses are increased by a union contract (even though it might take 4 years to get a contract like it did at NJA). If you haven't figured it out, Cav Man, you are the "expense" in Warren Buffet's "revenue/expense" problem at NetJets.



We have eight aircraft and are not currently looking for new pilots.

Agreed. We don't know what exactly is going on, but you have to admit, their timing is suspect.

Yes I'm well aware I'm the expense in the equation. Do realize Ten Man it is not a problem it is business. No one understands that more than Uncle Warren. Last time I checked he was giving away billions. If we are such a problem we'd be gone.

It is always interesting to see the perspective of guys in a nice tight flight department. I'm sure it is great from your side, but if you think for a minute that your eight plane fleet will be treated the same as a 400+ NJ fleet and 2k plus pilot group, well you have been sitting in the catbird seat way to long.