Flexjet Union Drive on the move

[GVFlyer]

GEX,

Nothing prevents management from opening up Home basing to all the New hires. Like they do for NJI.

Why blame the Union? We asked for the same policy NJI has.

I'll take a short burst at that one.

I think the nature of the relationship between the pilot groups and management is significantly different. I've probably been to my last NJI Christmas Party at the South Carolina Yacht Club at Windmill Harbour as my friend at Okatie has moved back to Massachusetts, but at the last one, where Richard Santulli attended, his affection for NJI pilots was apparent.

That affection is deserved, the boys at the South Carolina Gulfstream Preserve have worked hard for and grown with Richard's little air force.

I don't think Santulli likes you guys that much. Where he's from loyalty is important. He still tries to run NetJets like it's a New Jersey family business. When he set up EJI, there were probably guys that could have done each job better, but he went with the men who had been with him the longest and had shown him something.

What you guys have shown him recently I doubt he views as loyalty, probably more like an attack on his bottom line at the company he built from scratch.

I doubt he will give you anything in the way he does for NJI because he feels that he needs to retain things such as a decent domicile policy for the next time you drag him accross the coals in one of your combat contract negotiations.

GV

 

[RTRHD]

I'll take a short burst at that one.

I think the nature of the relationship between the pilot groups and management is significantly different. I've probably been to my last NJI Christmas Party at the South Carolina Yacht Club at Windmill Harbour as my friend at Okatie has moved back to Massachusetts,

No more partys anyway.

 

[gunfyter]

So nothing prevents him....

Out of Spite, He just wants a hole card to bargain with next time.

But here is my question. When the G-VI comes out... will it be a derivative of the G-V or a new type?

 

[RTRHD]

So nothing prevents him....

Out of Spite, He just wants a hole card to bargain with next time.

But here is my question. When the G-VI comes out... will it be a derivative of the G-V or a new type?

Does not matter if its made in KSAV we fly it. (Hang on everyone)

 

[cosmotheassman]

How did a discussion of the union at flexjet become a talk about parties in SC with santulli?



GET THOSE CARDS IN QUICK. WE ARE SO CLOSE!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[RTRHD]

Can we take this to the NJI/NJA tread. I can't remember where I am ticking people off at. LOL

 

[SeaSpray]

So nothing prevents him....

Out of Spite, He just wants a hole card to bargain with next time.

That's not what he said.

He said that it was their performance that got them perks at NJI and your behavior that thwarted benefits not tied to contract concessions at NJA.

SS

 

[SeaSpray]

"Cosmo..." your name sure fits your comments...the ass man, huh?

It's what he uses to think with or he would not be so set on self destruction...


SS

 

[Mr. Pebbles]

The Union is NOT the way to go. We don't have one here at CitationShares, nor do we want one. Our management takes care of us, that is why WE are the class of the field. NJW has too much time on her hands to be preaching about the great union the way she does. Maybe she should spend more time in the kitchen baking a cake for her hubby, and to "Cosmo..." your name sure fits your comments...the ass man, huh?

Whoopey, our management takes care of us. Their's isn't. Maybe that's why you don't need a union. It's also why they do need one.

If your company ever starts f'ing with you, then see how you feel. If you feel the same way as you do now, THEN you can come preach about the evils of a union.

 

[Frac Daddy]

Great, tell me what the Teamsters have done for Flops besides costing them the raise that management was trying to give them in January and poisoning the work environment.

GEX,

If you think that the FLOPS pilots were actually going to see that raise, PM me. I got a bridge I'd like to sell you. Management only started hinting about a raise when union drive picked up steam. Interesting timing.

And one more time: The union was a reaction to management's poisoning of the work environment. Not the other way around

 

[ArtVandalay]

How did a discussion of the union at flexjet become a talk about parties in SC with santulli?



GET THOSE CARDS IN QUICK. WE ARE SO CLOSE!!!!!!!!!!!!

That never ceases to amaze me. My card is in!!

 

[Av8rr]

I received a card about 3 days ago and promptly threw it in the trash!!!

Why? Sending in the cards sends a message without voting in a union.
It's an excellent way to communicate that all is not well and it costs you
nothing.

 

[Av8rr]

It's what he uses to think with or he would not be so set on self destruction...
SS

Hmm... there have been several leave and go over to NJ to "self destruct".

 

[GVFlyer]

Hmm... there have been several leave and go over to NJ to "self destruct".

My dogs not in this fight, but your statement assumes that the parent companies of both FlexJets and NetJets are in similar financial situations and have equally deep pockets.

This is not the case. Berkshire Hathaway is profitable. As a matter of fact, yesterday's Wallstreet Journal called their BRKA stock a bargain at $100,000 a share. Thus, they can continue to withstand NetJets' losses.

On the other hand, Bombardier, FlexJet's parent company, is losing money and yesterday announced that they were laying off an additional 1330 employees after having just layed off 1980 people at their Montreal and Toronto plants and closing their Tucson location. They cannot long sustain losses from any quarter.

Bombardier's losses combined with FlexJet's narrow margins (for similar aircraft Flex purchase prices, monthly management fees and occupied hourly fees are significantly less than NetJets) may constitute a compelling reason not to increase operating expenses at this critical juncture for FlexJets future.


GV

 

[xpdriver]

Does not matter if its made in KSAV we fly it. (Hang on everyone)

Single Carrier...STAPLE STAPLE>>>>>Here it comes...

 

[gunfyter]

My dogs not in this fight, but your statement assumes that the parent companies of both FlexJets and NetJets are in similar financial situations and have equally deep pockets.

They cannot long sustain losses from any quarter.

Bombardier's losses combined with FlexJet's narrow margins (for similar aircraft Flex purchase prices, monthly management fees and occupied hourly fees are significantly less than NetJets) may constitute a compelling reason not to increase operating expenses at this critical juncture for FlexJets future.


GV

GV,

I think the FlexJets pilots are in a stronger position than anyone else.

Who will sell Lears and Challengers on the Fractional market if Bombardier does not operate Flexjets?

 

[GVFlyer]

deleted

 

[gunfyter]

I must have asked a question with a top secret answer.

 

[cosmotheassman]

My dogs not in this fight, but your statement assumes that the parent companies of both FlexJets and NetJets are in similar financial situations and have equally deep pockets.

This is not the case. Berkshire Hathaway is profitable. As a matter of fact, yesterday's Wallstreet Journal called their BRKA stock a bargain at $100,000 a share. Thus, they can continue to withstand NetJets' losses.

On the other hand, Bombardier, FlexJet's parent company, is losing money and yesterday announced that they were laying off an additional 1330 employees after having just layed off 1980 people at their Montreal and Toronto plants and closing their Tucson location. They cannot long sustain losses from any quarter.

Bombardier's losses combined with FlexJet's narrow margins (for similar aircraft Flex purchase prices, monthly management fees and occupied hourly fees are significantly less than NetJets) may constitute a compelling reason not to increase operating expenses at this critical juncture for FlexJets future.


GV

Site your source. Bombardier is NOT losing money.

 

[August Spies]

How did a discussion of the union at flexjet become a talk about parties in SC with santulli?



GET THOSE CARDS IN QUICK. WE ARE SO CLOSE!!!!!!!!!!!!

I sent my card in

 

[cosmotheassman]

awesome. Keep Them Coming In Boys!

 

[GVFlyer]

Site your source. Bombardier is NOT losing money.

You should be able to tell all you need to know about Bombardier’s profitability by looking at their stock price compared to that of their competitors (2:46PM 10/26/2006).

Bombardier (FlexJet) is valued at $3.47

Here are the competitors.

Berkshire Hathaway (NetJets) – BRK.A $104,600.00
BRK.B $3,481.00

Textron B (Citation Shares)- $319.00

General Dynamics (Gulfstream) – $72.25

Raytheon (Flight Options) - $49.21


Here are the sources to support my post concerning Bombardier layoffs.

http://wichita.bizjournals.com/wichita/stories/2006/10/23/daily8.html

http://milwaukee.bizjournals.com/wichita/stories/2006/10/23/daily8.html

The previous layoffs I cited are detailed here.

http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2003/03/05/bombardier_030305.html



Bombardier is also laying off workers in it’s non-aviation businesses

http://money.canoe.ca/News/Sectors/Industrials/Bombardier/2006/09/19/1862958-ap.html



Here is an excerpt from a recent article concerning Bombardier’s decline in profits.

From the Wichita Business Journal
Bombardier Aerospace logged a 31 percent increase in business jet orders during the second quarter of 2006, yet parent company Bombardier Inc. saw its net profit drop 50 percent versus the second quarter of 2005.

The Montreal-based company posted a net income of $58 million for the three months ending July 31 compared to $117 million for the same time period last year.





GV







~

 

[GVFlyer]

I must have asked a question with a top secret answer.

Nah, I argued with a Marine once before. It reminded me of a George Bernard Shaw quote.

Never wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.

http://aura.zaadz.com/photos/6/50671/icon24/gbs.jpg?

 

[gunfyter]

OK

The second article you linked to was from 2003. All of business aviation was hurting that year.

NJ Inc had pilot layoffs at EJM. About 50 I think.

 

[GVFlyer]

OK

The second article you linked to was from 2003. All of business aviation was hurting that year.

NJ Inc had pilot layoffs at EJM. About 50 I think.

I clarified my post to show that the quote was from the previous round of Bombardier cuts (which resulted in the Tucson Learjet Assembly plant's closure last year) which I had referenced in my original post.

GV

 

[Av8rr]

I'm puzzled by the stock price reference...
Some have split their stocks...
Others have not...
Apples and oranges

 

[EdAtTheAirport]

Hey Av,

I think that was a demonstration of the true ignorance. He really thinks that BRK has 30,144 times the market cap of Bombardier. And, I don't know, might that also be Canadian dollars?

 

[GVFlyer]

Hey Av,

I think that was a demonstration of the true ignorance. He really thinks that BRK has 30,144 times the market cap of Bombardier. And, I don't know, might that also be Canadian dollars?

What a truly asinine post. No one with even a vestigial understanding of the market would make such an assumption. To suggest as much is acutely inane.

I'm managing a seven figure diversified personal portfolio from which I'm enjoying a greater than 14% annual return. How are you doing with your equities and bonds, Ed?

Market cap may be a good indicator of the size of a company, but certainly not it's profitability. What do you suspect Chrysler's or United Airlines' market cap was on the eve of their respective bankruptcies?

A better indicator would be revenues versus earnings.

Bombardier Annual Revenue - 16.750B CAD, Earnings - 232m CAD (projected- down significantly from last year).

Berkshire Hathaway Annual Revenue - $81.663B, EBITDA - $17.22B

Since it seems to be important to you, I'll provide market cap as well.

Bombardier - 6,978 million CAD

Berkshire Hathaway - $161.45 Billion

Of course Bombardier is quoted in CAD, it's traded on the Toronto exchange.

And Av8rr, some profitable companies, like General Dynamics have recently split (March 27, 2006) and climbed right back up, Bombardier hasn't had the growth to offer a stock spilt in recent memory.

Any way you look at it, Berkshire Hathaway has much deeper pockets than Bombardier - which was my original thesis.


GV

 

[EdAtTheAirport]

You should be able to tell all you need to know about Bombardier’s profitability by looking at their stock price compared to that of their competitors (2:46PM 10/26/2006).
~

You are the one who tell all he needed to know about a company by its stock price. You either didn't know what you were talking about, or you were a fraud for arguing something that you knew to be irrelevant.

There was nothing asinine about my post other than the subject. You're the one who wrote it.

 

[GEXDriver]

EdAtTheAirport and Av8rr - what a pair! They can't tell the difference between a stock that's $3.47 Canadian and one that sells for $100,000. What a couple of scholars!

You clearly don't understand GVFlyer's post or the significance of the information he gave you.

...just like a pig looking at a wrist watch.