Flexjet Union Drive on the move

[jonjuan]

NJA's pilots have a contract and the company is now profitable. that is not what I would call "drinking kool aid".
your post is a nonsequitur.....idiot

It is drinking the "kool aid" if you truly believe the company is profitable. If I were you, I'd pay a little more attention to "NumberCruncher." He/she has a pretty good idea, posted a while back, about how the company went from being $50 million in the red to $25 million in the black in a very short period of time and no, it wasn't because rates were raised for new owners and the sell off rate dropped.
BTW, since when did you start believing management? I thought they were lying to you when they said they were losing money? Why did you think this? Because it helped your cause. Now, they say they are profitable? Why do you all of a sudden believe them? Because it helps your cause.

 

[gunfyter]

Interesting. That runs counter to what you claimed during the negotiations. You were falling all over yourselves to trot out the NBAA average pilot wages then, now you claim it is a different situation. Good to see you finally recognize your past error.

I never make errors, Family Guy.


The difference in the situation is that Fractional pilots need UNIONS to make the NBAA that they should make.


Fortune 100 pilots do not need the Unions.

 

[kab1027]

Flex Guys, keep the union cards coming in.

 

[netjetwife]

You remind me of those Jehova's witnesses that keep knocking on my door every so often...preaching that I need to be saved (I must apologize if I have offended any Jehova's witnesses). Thank you for being SO worried about our well being.

Noting that you chose this analogy--there are several critical differences. Salvation is a purely personal event, but the wages one settles for has an impact upon others in the same industry. I'm not as self-less as you claim. I recognize that industry standards are most effective when applied across the entire industry. When the NJ pilots go back to the table I have no wish for the other frac pilots' wages to be quoted in an effort to drag down the NJA salaries. I'd rather see the opposite take place. How can any pilot in the industry be against professional compensation and fair work rules?

One has a choice whether or not to open the door; on this board it is called the ignore function. I am never offended if a poster chooses to put me on that list. I fully support each person's right to post and read as they wish, within board rules and dictates of civil discourse.

JJ, when considering deception one looks at motive. During a contract battle management has much to gain by hiding profitability; that motivation isn't there during "peace time." Huge corporations like BH have an easy time of shuffling money around. Additionally, they were open about the fact that they were pouring profits from NJA into start-ups around the world. It was also noted that sell-offs negatively impacted the bottom line. That situation was improved with the new contract that enabled the company to hire more pilots who had previously shunned NJA. It was exactly as the pilots said all along--the money was always there.

 

[netjetwife]

Flex Guys, keep the union cards coming in.

Just in case there is any confusion out there--turning in the cards only calls for a vote. Actually voting for union representation is a separate event that is held if enough cards asking for the right to consider a union have been submitted. As voting is a democratic principal it seems only fair to allow that process to go forward. Withholding your card has the practical affect of denying your fellow pilots the right to vote. That seems very wrong.

Also, it would be incorrect to assume that my encouragement for the process is based on the belief that Flex pilots would automatically be joining 1108. I have no idea where they would end up. I just happen to believe that organized pilots have the best chance of gaining the professional contract they deserve, and that taking a poll is the right way to decide what the group wants to do.

 

[Hogprint]

GEX posted:

Organizing killed the raise that management was trying to give them. Quality of life and compensation has gone into the toilet since they voted in the Teamsters. They now have an adversarial relationship with management and are working counter to the leadership's simple desire to develop a business plan that will keep Flops in business.

Killed the raise huh? Looks like management made a tactical error by waiting to late to give them the raise. Tried stretching that double into a triple.

We know they never had any intention of giving a raise now don't we. This is right out of the play book.

If things were so rosy over the past few years, well I guess that explains why I'd have quite a few guys asking if we were still hiring.

On another note. How big is your flight dept GE? How many new hires have been hired there this year?

 

[Hogprint]

Omg!!!

Interesting. That runs counter to what you claimed during the negotiations. You were falling all over yourselves to trot out the NBAA average pilot wages then, now you claim it is a different situation. Good to see you finally recognize your past error.

Look who's been released out of the Carbon Freezing Chamber!

 

[cosmotheassman]

NJW,

You are using awfully big words for Fraxjockey. You might want to tone it down to a 3rd grade level so he can better understand it. I guarantee that Fraxjockey will be the FIRST MORON to be on the union ship when its voted in. I picture him being just like George Mcfly for some reason??

 

[cosmotheassman]

STOP THE PRESS. FRAXJOCKEY EXPOSED!!! HAHAHAHA. HEY FRAXJOCKEY YOUR IDENTITY HAS BEEN REVEALED, WE KNOW WHO YOU ARE.

I won't lower myself by giving your name out here on this board but, be assured that your identity is KNOWN. Watch what you say on this forum. Several of us here know who you are now. You should learn to keep your mouth closed at work!


Want proof that we know? Let me see, have you ever flown a 727?? HAHAHAHA!!!!

 

[EdAtTheAirport]

"I've wanted to be a pilot since I was about 5 years old. It's all I grew up thinking about. It's what makes me happy. If I could make $50,000 at Home Depot selling power tools or make $25,000 flying I would take the flying job every time. It's not about the money to me."

 

[xpdriver]

"I've wanted to be a pilot since I was about 5 years old. It's all I grew up thinking about. It's what makes me happy. If I could make $50,000 at Home Depot selling power tools or make $25,000 flying I would take the flying job every time. It's not about the money to me."

I can't help it>>>OH MY GOD!!!

This guy is mgmts best friend..Is that what your family is going to say when you can't afford that prom dress or the new glove.."But family I love to fly isn't that great, As your wife is working two jobs so you can play with airplanes...Please Shut The F%ck UP...You might be the biggest tool I have ever read on the board....PLease jump off a bridge NOW!!! You are part the reason Pilot salaries are so low...I have to start drinking now or I will lose my mind..Time to take a break from Flightinfo...

 

[gunfyter]

XP,Did you not see the Quotes in his post? Means he is mocking the guy who is happy at FLOPS.

 

[xpdriver]

Sorry!!!!

 

[GEXDriver]

GEX posted:

We know they never had any intention of giving a raise now don't we. This is right out of the play book.

I don't know anything of the sort, and neither do you. It seemed to be a valid offer.

Again, my original post was just suggesting that Flex pilots take a look at what the Teamsters had done to Flops prior to sending their cards in. I was making no recommendations regarding Flight Options - they're already toast.

Flops is already losing money before operating expenses are increased by a union contract (even though it might take 4 years to get a contract like it did at NJA). If you haven't figured it out, Cav Man, you are the "expense" in Warren Buffet's "revenue/expense" problem at NetJets.

On another note. How big is your flight dept GE? How many new hires have been hired there this year?

We have eight aircraft and are not currently looking for new pilots.

 

[netjetwife]

NJW,

You are using awfully big words for Fraxjockey. You might want to tone it down to a 3rd grade level so he can better understand it. I guarantee that Fraxjockey will be the FIRST MORON to be on the union ship when its voted in. I picture him being just like George Mcfly for some reason??

Thanks for the advice, Cosmo, I'll keep it in mind....

GEX, tsk, tsk.... I can't help but notice the inconsistency in your post (it doesn't add up.. ) in regards to Flt Ops. You tell Hogprint that there's no way he can know that Management never intended to give the pilots a raise (reality speaks for itself, had they wanted to they would have already) and then turn around and announce to the board--"Flight Options - they're already toast". As both opinions are based to a degree on guess work, it seems rather hypocritical for yours to be stated as a fact while you tell others there is no way they can know what seems self-evident. Actually, summing up past events is easier than predicting the future.

With all due respect, GEX, it seems that Flt Ops pilots are in a better position than you to know how organizing has affected their situation. The reports from Options pilots posting here are favorable. When in the past were they ever negotiating a contract? That is progress, in and of itself. Some sections have already been TAed. What puts you in the position of knowing how long it will take? When the NJ pilots woke up and took charge--voting in new leadership and digging in their heels--their contract was ratified by 11 months. Flt Ops pilots flew banners over the NBAA; they're ahead of where the NJ pilots were when they started work on the present CBA. A lot can be learned from the mistakes of those who go before you and there are NJ pilots quite willing to help others with advice and encouragement. We all know that the Options pilots still must make it happen for themselves, but that ugly health care slap in the face will surely provide the needed motivation. NJ pilots also saw punitive measures during their contract battle. They will tell you that the sooner you "slug it out" the quicker the parties at the table will come to an agreement. Hang in there, Options! Send in your cards, Flex!
Best Wishes to all of you!
Netjetwife

 

[FraxJockey]

STOP THE PRESS. FRAXJOCKEY EXPOSED!!! HAHAHAHA. HEY FRAXJOCKEY YOUR IDENTITY HAS BEEN REVEALED, WE KNOW WHO YOU ARE.

I won't lower myself by giving your name out here on this board but, be assured that your identity is KNOWN. Watch what you say on this forum. Several of us here know who you are now. You should learn to keep your mouth closed at work!

And why should I care about this?

Want proof that we know? Let me see, have you ever flown a 727?? HAHAHAHA!!!!

Do you have any idea how many guys at Flex have flown a 727?

 

[FraxJockey]

Funny thing is I know who quite a few people are on this board...too bad Cosmo had to resort to threats. Oh well, at least you think you know who I am.

 

[cosmotheassman]

It wasn't a threat.

 

[GEXDriver]

.

GEX, tsk, tsk.... I can't help but notice the inconsistency in your post (it doesn't add up.. ) in regards to Flt Ops. You tell Hogprint that there's no way he can know that Management never intended to give the pilots a raise (reality speaks for itself, had they wanted to they would have already) and then turn around and announce to the board--"Flight Options - they're already toast". As both opinions are based to a degree on guess work, it seems rather hypocritical for yours to be stated as a fact while you tell others there is no way they can know what seems self-evident. Actually, summing up past events is easier than predicting the future.

Nice attempt at dialectic, but I suggest you take a logic review before you try again.

It was apparent to even the casual observer that Flight Options management was trying to give their pilots a comparability raise in late January 2006, but this effort was stopped dead by the pilots organizing under the tutelege and encouragement of the Teamsters.

There was another group of pilots that were trying to form a FLOPs only group of pilots called FOPA to be constructed under the model of Southwest Airlines pilot group - SWAPA. In true Teamster thug fashion, these pilots were shouted down.

My FLOPs "is already toast" comment comes from quarter after quarter of reviewing Raytheon's Security and Exchange Commission 10Q quarterly reports. I do this because Raytheon and GD constitute the defense portion of my stock portfolio. During second quarter 2006, Flight Options lost $10 million. Their third quarter conference call will be on October 26, but the street is not forecasting a sudden surge to profitability for Flight Options.

Again, I was not suggesting any course of action to FLOPs pilots, their goose is already cooked. I was only suggesting that the Flex pilots do as I have done, observe the Flight Options pilots around the FBOs, talk to a few of them and see if that is really what they want. Even some of the union true believers (all due apologies to Eric Hoffer) at FLOPs are beginning to lose heart. Many FLOPS pilots are trying to go elsewhere.

Flex on the other hand, appears to be a cohesive group that is making some good market penetration and has begun a swing toward profitability, they actually have something to lose.

What puts you in the position of knowing how long it will take? When the NJ pilots woke up and took charge--voting in new leadership and digging in their heels--their contract was ratified by 11 months.

Absolutely nothing. What I said was, "even though it might take 4 years to get a contract like it did at NJA", which is speculation not an attempt at establishing a definitive time line. Even you have to admit that this is a possibility.

Note Bene: It has already been nearly 11 months in FLOP's attempt to get a contract and the clock is still running...

Actually, NJW if you listen to some of your own pilots they're not that happy. Seven days is a long time to be away when you have kids - you're missing half their lives. They don't like commuting, some have told me they could have just as easily been in the back on Comair at Lexington-Bluegrass. The new guys think the old guys threw them under the bus with the new domicile policy and a lot of guys are gripping about the repetitive extended duty days. It seems that your own organization could benefit from your tender mercies.

 

[EdAtTheAirport]

"Amen brotha! When I go into FBO's and I see a yellow tie and a union lanyard, I steer clear because I know inevitably what is going to be talked about...I too am sick and tired of hearing the bithching."