Flexjet Union Drive on the move

[FraxJockey]

Watch what you say on this forum.

Threat or not, why is my opinion so important to you that you feel I have to watch what I say? This is an anonymous board where anyone should feel free to post their VIEW whether it's popular or not. If every time I post something you are going to take it personally I'd rather not post anything at all. I'll let everyone believe what you have to say and not hear another point of view. I will be watching.... See on the line.

Frax

 

[CA1900]

The new guys think the old guys threw them under the bus with the new domicile policy...

I'm a new NJA guy, and I just talked with a guy who's been here quite a while. He said the same thing about them throwing the new guys "under the bus," in exchange for a bunch more money, and some guys kinda felt bad about it.

Know what I told him? I told him that, on the contrary, that big raise and the great work rules are why I applied for the job in the first place. I thanked him for the new contract, warts and all. It's why I'm here.

 

[cosmotheassman]

If every time I post something you are going to take it personally I'd rather not post anything at all.

Frax

Thank you, mission accomplished.... and I think I speak for the majority here.



VOTE THAT UNION IN BOYS!!!

 

[EdAtTheAirport]

So how do you explain your comments that I posted?

 

[GEXDriver]

Know what I told him? I told him that, on the contrary, that big raise and the great work rules are why I applied for the job in the first place. I thanked him for the new contract, warts and all. It's why I'm here.

That sounds like, "Thank you, Sir! May I have another?"

Some people like to dress up in leather or rubber and have some chica in spike heels and a mask beat their a$$, too.

But hey, I'm happy where I live - four seasons, crystal clear lakes, gentle hills and a 20 minute drive to work. All I was doing is repeating the comments of some of your NJA colleagues. It must be a popular sentiment if you've heard it, too.

 

[Ultra Grump]

Actually, NJW if you listen to some of your own pilots they're not that happy. Seven days is a long time to be away when you have kids - you're missing half their lives. They don't like commuting, some have told me they could have just as easily been in the back on Comair at Lexington-Bluegrass. The new guys think the old guys threw them under the bus with the new domicile policy and a lot of guys are gripping about the repetitive extended duty days. It seems that your own organization could benefit from your tender mercies.

The NJI, non-union guys are gone just as long. I never hear anyone complaining about the 7-7 schedule. Only the post-ratification-hires have to commute anymore, and if they live in domicile they don't have to do that. I've also never heard anyone "gripping" about extended days, because they pay well and many volunteer for them. Finally, nobody was "thrown under the bus" in the contract. Everyone hired post-ratification knew what they were getting into when they accepted the job.

In addition, the contract was the company's last, best, and final offer, and the domicile issue was inserted by the company. According to our negotiators and president, if we had voted it down, there was no certainty of any changes from the TA we were presented with, and could have regressed. So if anyone thinks we "threw them under the bus," they should think about how much worse it could be. They have what they have because we fought long and hard for it. They could be working under the old contract still, starting at a whopping $27k, like most of the rest of us did, and all on the 17-day schedule, instead of the horrible 7-7.

 

[GEXDriver]

I've also never heard anyone "gripping" about extended days, because they pay well and many volunteer for them.

"Gripping" is like really intense "griping".

I'd like to blame my keyboard for that gaffe, but actually it's my own literacy issues that are at fault.

 

[FraxJockey]

Thank you, mission accomplished.... and I think I speak for the majority here.

Don't worry Cosmo, we're like weeds. As soon as you pluck one out another grows in its place.

 

[gunfyter]

GEX,

Nothing prevents management from opening up Home basing to all the New hires. Like they do for NJI.

Why blame the Union? We asked for the same policy NJI has.

 

[Hogprint]

I don't know anything of the sort, and neither do you. It seemed to be a valid offer.

Again, my original post was just suggesting that Flex pilots take a look at what the Teamsters had done to Flops prior to sending their cards in. I was making no recommendations regarding Flight Options - they're already toast.

Flops is already losing money before operating expenses are increased by a union contract (even though it might take 4 years to get a contract like it did at NJA). If you haven't figured it out, Cav Man, you are the "expense" in Warren Buffet's "revenue/expense" problem at NetJets.



We have eight aircraft and are not currently looking for new pilots.

Agreed. We don't know what exactly is going on, but you have to admit, their timing is suspect.

Yes I'm well aware I'm the expense in the equation. Do realize Ten Man it is not a problem it is business. No one understands that more than Uncle Warren. Last time I checked he was giving away billions. If we are such a problem we'd be gone.

It is always interesting to see the perspective of guys in a nice tight flight department. I'm sure it is great from your side, but if you think for a minute that your eight plane fleet will be treated the same as a 400+ NJ fleet and 2k plus pilot group, well you have been sitting in the catbird seat way to long.

 

[GVFlyer]

GEX,

Nothing prevents management from opening up Home basing to all the New hires. Like they do for NJI.

Why blame the Union? We asked for the same policy NJI has.

I'll take a short burst at that one.

I think the nature of the relationship between the pilot groups and management is significantly different. I've probably been to my last NJI Christmas Party at the South Carolina Yacht Club at Windmill Harbour as my friend at Okatie has moved back to Massachusetts, but at the last one, where Richard Santulli attended, his affection for NJI pilots was apparent.

That affection is deserved, the boys at the South Carolina Gulfstream Preserve have worked hard for and grown with Richard's little air force.

I don't think Santulli likes you guys that much. Where he's from loyalty is important. He still tries to run NetJets like it's a New Jersey family business. When he set up EJI, there were probably guys that could have done each job better, but he went with the men who had been with him the longest and had shown him something.

What you guys have shown him recently I doubt he views as loyalty, probably more like an attack on his bottom line at the company he built from scratch.

I doubt he will give you anything in the way he does for NJI because he feels that he needs to retain things such as a decent domicile policy for the next time you drag him accross the coals in one of your combat contract negotiations.

GV

 

[RTRHD]

I'll take a short burst at that one.

I think the nature of the relationship between the pilot groups and management is significantly different. I've probably been to my last NJI Christmas Party at the South Carolina Yacht Club at Windmill Harbour as my friend at Okatie has moved back to Massachusetts,

No more partys anyway.

 

[gunfyter]

So nothing prevents him....

Out of Spite, He just wants a hole card to bargain with next time.

But here is my question. When the G-VI comes out... will it be a derivative of the G-V or a new type?

 

[RTRHD]

So nothing prevents him....

Out of Spite, He just wants a hole card to bargain with next time.

But here is my question. When the G-VI comes out... will it be a derivative of the G-V or a new type?

Does not matter if its made in KSAV we fly it. (Hang on everyone)

 

[cosmotheassman]

How did a discussion of the union at flexjet become a talk about parties in SC with santulli?



GET THOSE CARDS IN QUICK. WE ARE SO CLOSE!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[RTRHD]

Can we take this to the NJI/NJA tread. I can't remember where I am ticking people off at. LOL

 

[SeaSpray]

So nothing prevents him....

Out of Spite, He just wants a hole card to bargain with next time.

That's not what he said.

He said that it was their performance that got them perks at NJI and your behavior that thwarted benefits not tied to contract concessions at NJA.

SS

 

[SeaSpray]

"Cosmo..." your name sure fits your comments...the ass man, huh?

It's what he uses to think with or he would not be so set on self destruction...


SS

 

[Mr. Pebbles]

The Union is NOT the way to go. We don't have one here at CitationShares, nor do we want one. Our management takes care of us, that is why WE are the class of the field. NJW has too much time on her hands to be preaching about the great union the way she does. Maybe she should spend more time in the kitchen baking a cake for her hubby, and to "Cosmo..." your name sure fits your comments...the ass man, huh?

Whoopey, our management takes care of us. Their's isn't. Maybe that's why you don't need a union. It's also why they do need one.

If your company ever starts f'ing with you, then see how you feel. If you feel the same way as you do now, THEN you can come preach about the evils of a union.

 

[Frac Daddy]

Great, tell me what the Teamsters have done for Flops besides costing them the raise that management was trying to give them in January and poisoning the work environment.

GEX,

If you think that the FLOPS pilots were actually going to see that raise, PM me. I got a bridge I'd like to sell you. Management only started hinting about a raise when union drive picked up steam. Interesting timing.

And one more time: The union was a reaction to management's poisoning of the work environment. Not the other way around