Flexjet, pilots...

[The Architect]

That's it?

Well, the first 4 that I talked to are very glad to be out from under the IBT. We will see about the rest.

Keep trying to spin pilots jumping ship as a plus for the IBT. You know better.

Four sentences?

Of course they are gonna say that to your face!!!!

What did you expect?

Maybe something like... I love Flight Options! I love that I can come here and get another type rating! I love that I make more money than pilots senior to me! I love that I can go back to Flight Options in 12 months!

No, and certainly not to you! They know exactly who you are!

Slipping...slipping...

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

Four sentences?

Of course they are gonna say that to your face!!!!

What did you expect?

Maybe something like... I love Flight Options! I love that I can come here and get another type rating! I love that I make more money than pilots senior to me! I love that I can go back to Flight Options in 12 months!

No, and certainly not to you! They know exactly who you are!

Slipping...slipping...

Only thing slipping is the IBTs control.

 

[Praetorian]

Why would you make this post below without trying to get accurate information first, or were you in such a hurry to post the $$$ to try to show how these 4 pilots are SOOOO screwing the FJ pilots that your didn't care how accurate the numbers were?

And once again, who is the "source" for this information regarding my job to come on here a fight the union? I would work on getting a better mole.

You sir are a liar and a deceiver. I looked up Cabbies numbers in our CBA and, although it seems he rounded the FO numbers off to the nearest thousandth, he posted the accurate numbers, right out of our contract. And the FX numbers he's comparing them too are right out of the memo Deana sent to all of us before she was sacked.

So bottom line, yes it's true, on day one as a F/O at FX, former FO pilot, TW will be making more than your nine year Lear 45 Capts. It's also true that on day one as FOs at FX, the other three guys will be making over $40,000 more then year two Lear 45 F/Os already on the property.

So go ahead insult me and try to trick your fellow FX pilots. Claim my numbers are inaccurate. Attempt to divert their attention. Tell us to "look over there"! But your spell is broken.

From what I hear, from talking to your pilots out on the road, you've lost their respect. They know who you are and they know you've been doing uncles work for him on here. They wonder how much it cost him to buy you. They are wondering what you were promised.

As a traitor to our profession you are not worthy of our pity. The best thing you could do now is admit you were wrong and sign on to help your fellow pilots.

Or, we could add you to this list of famous traitors:

• John Anthony Walker Jr. ? The U.S. Navy officer spied for the Russians from 1968-1985. Walker developed a spy ring involving his son Michael, brother Arthur and Navy officer Jerry Whitworth. He helped the Soviets decipher more than one million encrypted naval messages. He is sometimes described as the most damaging Soviet spy in history. All the members in the spy ring, besides Michael, received life sentences.
• Aldrich Ames ? The CIA operative began spying for the Soviet Union in 1985. He even passed two polygraph examinations. He was arrested in 1994 just before flying to Moscow and convicted of spying for the Soviets. According to news reports, he earned more than $4.6 million from his espionage. His activities led to the death of numerous Russian double agents.
• Benedict Arnold ? The America?s Revolutionary army, who was honored by George Washington himself, defected to the British in 1779. He obtained command of West Point in order to surrender it to the British, but his plot was exposed. He led British forces on raids in Virginia and Connecticut in the war. In 1782, Arnold moved to London. He died in 1801 and was buried at St. Mary?s Church, Battersea in London.
• Judas Iscariot ? According to the New Testament, Judas, one of the 12 disciples, betrayed Jesus with a kiss for ?thirty pieces of silver.? He later hanged himself.
• Marcus Junius Brutus ? The Roman politician turned against his patron, Roman dictator Julius Caesar, and took a leading role in the assassination conspiracy against Caesar in 44 BC. ?Et tu, Brute?? (?You, too, Brutus?), were Caesar?s last words. Two years later, after being defeated by Mark Antony?s army, Brutus committed suicide.
• J.M. - Flexjet training department pilot turncoat. In 2014 sang the DAC company song, in exchange for promises of personal financial reward from management, long after it became clear his fellow pilots were being screwed, J.M. tried to convince them that they did not need a union. He made his claim in-spite of clear evidence to the contrary. Although in the end he was richly rewarded for his treachery, his fellow pilots were not.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

You sir are a liar and a deceiver. I looked up Cabbies numbers in our CBA and, although it seems he rounded the FO numbers off to the nearest thousandth, he posted the accurate numbers, right out of our contract. And the FX numbers he's comparing them too are right out of the memo Deana sent to all of us before she was sacked.

So bottom line, yes it's true, on day one as a F/O at FX, former FO pilot, TW will be making more than your nine year Lear 45 Capts. It's also true that on day one as FOs at FX, the other three guys will be making over $40,000 more then year two Lear 45 F/Os already on the property.

So go ahead insult me and try to trick your fellow FX pilots. Claim my numbers are inaccurate. Attempt to divert their attention. Tell us to "look over there"! But your spell is broken.

From what I hear, from talking to your pilots out on the road, you've lost their respect. They know who you are and they know you've been doing uncles work for him on here. They wonder how much it cost him to buy you. They are wondering what you were promised.

As a traitor to our profession you are not worthy of our pity. The best thing you could do now is admit you were wrong and sign on to help your fellow pilots.

Or, we could add you to this list of famous traitors:

• John Anthony Walker Jr. ? The U.S. Navy officer spied for the Russians from 1968-1985. Walker developed a spy ring involving his son Michael, brother Arthur and Navy officer Jerry Whitworth. He helped the Soviets decipher more than one million encrypted naval messages. He is sometimes described as the most damaging Soviet spy in history. All the members in the spy ring, besides Michael, received life sentences.
• Aldrich Ames ? The CIA operative began spying for the Soviet Union in 1985. He even passed two polygraph examinations. He was arrested in 1994 just before flying to Moscow and convicted of spying for the Soviets. According to news reports, he earned more than $4.6 million from his espionage. His activities led to the death of numerous Russian double agents.
• Benedict Arnold ? The America?s Revolutionary army, who was honored by George Washington himself, defected to the British in 1779. He obtained command of West Point in order to surrender it to the British, but his plot was exposed. He led British forces on raids in Virginia and Connecticut in the war. In 1782, Arnold moved to London. He died in 1801 and was buried at St. Mary?s Church, Battersea in London.
• Judas Iscariot ? According to the New Testament, Judas, one of the 12 disciples, betrayed Jesus with a kiss for ?thirty pieces of silver.? He later hanged himself.
• Marcus Junius Brutus ? The Roman politician turned against his patron, Roman dictator Julius Caesar, and took a leading role in the assassination conspiracy against Caesar in 44 BC. ?Et tu, Brute?? (?You, too, Brutus?), were Caesar?s last words. Two years later, after being defeated by Mark Antony?s army, Brutus committed suicide.
• J.M. - Flexjet training department pilot turncoat. In 2014 sang the DAC company song, in exchange for promises of personal financial reward from management, long after it became clear his fellow pilots were being screwed, J.W. tried to convince them that they did not need a union. He made his claim in-spite of clear evidence to the contrary. Although in the end he was richly rewarded for his treachery, his fellow pilots were not.

Trick my fellow FJ pilots, seriously?

I do not hide who I am on FI from my fellow FJ pilots, in fact I tell them freely since I have nothing to hide.

Traitor, hahahaha, who are you trying to convice? That is a stretch even for you.

 

[luckydog]

You sir are a liar and a deceiver. Blah, blah, blah

Or, we could add you to this list of famous traitors:

more blah, blah, blah...

You are guys are such drama queens. Now a pilot at a small fractional operation is on the same level as a some of history's most infamous traitors. These are people the directly contributed to the deaths of numerous people. This is over the top even for you guys.

Why are you guys so concerned about how much more they make? You don't even work her. You are entitled to your opinion but, no one here cares about it. If the FJ pilots don't care, and they don't seem to, why should you?

Next, if you are so outraged on our behalf, why didn't the IBT stop it?

Move on to the next round of trying to prove TWA is a management stooge, this one is played out.

 

[wingsnthings]

You sir are a liar and a deceiver. I looked up Cabbies numbers in our CBA and, although it seems he rounded the FO numbers off to the nearest thousandth, he posted the accurate numbers, right out of our contract. And the FX numbers he's comparing them too are right out of the memo Deana sent to all of us before she was sacked.

So bottom line, yes it's true, on day one as a F/O at FX, former FO pilot, TW will be making more than your nine year Lear 45 Capts. It's also true that on day one as FOs at FX, the other three guys will be making over $40,000 more then year two Lear 45 F/Os already on the property.

So go ahead insult me and try to trick your fellow FX pilots. Claim my numbers are inaccurate. Attempt to divert their attention. Tell us to "look over there"! But your spell is broken.

From what I hear, from talking to your pilots out on the road, you've lost their respect. They know who you are and they know you've been doing uncles work for him on here. They wonder how much it cost him to buy you. They are wondering what you were promised.

As a traitor to our profession you are not worthy of our pity. The best thing you could do now is admit you were wrong and sign on to help your fellow pilots.

Or, we could add you to this list of famous traitors:

• John Anthony Walker Jr. ? The U.S. Navy officer spied for the Russians from 1968-1985. Walker developed a spy ring involving his son Michael, brother Arthur and Navy officer Jerry Whitworth. He helped the Soviets decipher more than one million encrypted naval messages. He is sometimes described as the most damaging Soviet spy in history. All the members in the spy ring, besides Michael, received life sentences.
• Aldrich Ames ? The CIA operative began spying for the Soviet Union in 1985. He even passed two polygraph examinations. He was arrested in 1994 just before flying to Moscow and convicted of spying for the Soviets. According to news reports, he earned more than $4.6 million from his espionage. His activities led to the death of numerous Russian double agents.
• Benedict Arnold ? The America?s Revolutionary army, who was honored by George Washington himself, defected to the British in 1779. He obtained command of West Point in order to surrender it to the British, but his plot was exposed. He led British forces on raids in Virginia and Connecticut in the war. In 1782, Arnold moved to London. He died in 1801 and was buried at St. Mary?s Church, Battersea in London.
• Judas Iscariot ? According to the New Testament, Judas, one of the 12 disciples, betrayed Jesus with a kiss for ?thirty pieces of silver.? He later hanged himself.
• Marcus Junius Brutus ? The Roman politician turned against his patron, Roman dictator Julius Caesar, and took a leading role in the assassination conspiracy against Caesar in 44 BC. ?Et tu, Brute?? (?You, too, Brutus?), were Caesar?s last words. Two years later, after being defeated by Mark Antony?s army, Brutus committed suicide.
• J.M. - Flexjet training department pilot turncoat. In 2014 sang the DAC company song, in exchange for promises of personal financial reward from management, long after it became clear his fellow pilots were being screwed, J.M. tried to convince them that they did not need a union. He made his claim in-spite of clear evidence to the contrary. Although in the end he was richly rewarded for his treachery, his fellow pilots were not.

This is just pathetic! It is laughable! TWA is highly respected by his peers and no where near a traitor. I suggest you worry about FO and quit trying to make problems at FJ. Things are uncertain at both companies, but all of the growth (except the Phenoms, Thank God!) are coming to FJ. So I don't see the fear that you and the other regular posters from FO are trying to spread. Continue with your fear campaign, it gives me comic relief nightly!

 

[BlueNose]

Trick my fellow FJ pilots, seriously?

I do not hide who I am on FI from my fellow FJ pilots, in fact I tell them freely since I have nothing to hide.

Traitor, hahahaha, who are you trying to convice? That is a stretch even for you.

Dude, I think you've gotten so wrapped up in your fight that you've lost perspective and started to come across like the caricature the union thumpers make you out to be. I'm no friend of this union leadership team, but even I find myself more on their side when you make your arguments now. If you didn't exist, they'd have to invent you.

You really think all is well and will remain so at Flex? I'm not saying the IBT is the right answer for your group. Of course they use fear to sell themselves, that's their shtick. But in your zeal to fight them off, do you really know what or who you are defending? Safety, quality of life and good training aren't starting to erode in the name of 'running lean' and 'efficiency'? There are no signs of this happening? From the history you've heard you don't think it'll get worse? Respected leaders not leaving? Really? This is how KR and Co treat their new favorite children while there is still the threat of a combined, unionized pilot force. What do you think will happen if the lists are combined and the IBT is decertified as KR obviously hopes? What, exactly, are you for once this comes to pass?

I agree that using the traitor analogy was way over the top. These guys just can't help themselves. But are you familiar with the term, Judas goat? Just where are you trying to lead your fellow pilots?

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

That was pretty good Praetorian but remember some don't have a sense of humor. Blue and the Judas goat comment-touche'.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

Dude, I think you've gotten so wrapped up in your fight that you've lost perspective and started to come across like the caricature the union thumpers make you out to be. I'm no friend of this union leadership team, but even I find myself more on their side when you make your arguments now. If you didn't exist, they'd have to invent you.

You really think all is well and will remain so at Flex? I'm not saying the IBT is the right answer for your group. Of course they use fear to sell themselves, that's their shtick. But in your zeal to fight them off, do you really know what or who you are defending? Safety, quality of life and good training aren't starting to erode in the name of 'running lean' and 'efficiency'? There are no signs of this happening? From the history you've heard you don't think it'll get worse? Respected leaders not leaving? Really? This is how KR and Co treat their new favorite children while there is still the threat of a combined, unionized pilot force. What do you think will happen if the lists are combined and the IBT is decertified as KR obviously hopes? What, exactly, are you for once this comes to pass?

I agree that using the traitor analogy was way over the top. These guys just can't help themselves. But are you familiar with the term, Judas goat? Just where are you trying to lead your fellow pilots?

Was not familiar with that term, so I looked it up.

Firstly, I am not trying to lead the FJ pilots anywhere. I am expressing my opinion. In no way do I feel it is my job to stand up and tell the FJ pilots what they should or shouldn't do. They are all adults and professionals and can figure that out for themselves.

I do feel a personal responsibility to my fellow pilots to make sure they make their decisions based on accurate facts and not biased raw emotion and misinformation so another group can impose their agenda on the FJ pilots.

To say I am leading the FJ pilots to slaughter is wrong on several levels. I am not leading them and you are assuming that we are about to be slaughtered.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

That was pretty good Praetorian but remember some don't have a sense of humor. Blue and the Judas goat comment-touche'.

So, if we as FJ pilots were to bow down and join the ranks of the IBT you would ensure that this inevitable slaughter that you find so amusing would be avoided?

And you would make sure that we were protected from the evil of people, I guess like me?

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

TWA, I can't guarantee anything. You have to grow your own set of balls. Don't try to make me out as the bad guy because it won't work. You sound like a man of principle, so how are you going to live your life? To paraphrase someone else " either die on your feet or live the rest of your life on your knees."

 

[luckydog]

TWA, I can't guarantee anything. You have to grow your own set of balls. Don't try to make me out as the bad guy because it won't work. You sound like a man of principle, so how are you going to live your life? To paraphrase someone else " either die on your feet or live the rest of your life on your knees."

WTF does this even mean?

 

[The Architect]

Choice

So, if we as FJ pilots were to bow down and join the ranks of the IBT you would ensure that this inevitable slaughter that you find so amusing would be avoided?

And you would make sure that we were protected from the evil of people, I guess like me?

Why continue to push "bow down" and join the IBT?

It is a choice for each pilot to make. A choice, when the NMB initiates a vote to determine whether the pilots (Flight Options and Flexjet) will pick the IBT for representation, another entity for representation or no representation at all.

If you don't like the IBT or any representation you should certainly vote that way. And others will vote how they feel.

For some reason individuals continue to cast this as one evil against another. It is not that at all. Everyone will have the opportunity to choose.

Now TWA/JM has made it very clear that he does not like the IBT. His peers know that. And he is comfortable with that.

But, that doesn't mean that the individuals that would like IBT representation are wrong or evil. They get to choose for their own reasons.

However, everyone needs to remain informed and understand the changes that have occurred and will continue to occur. Some (Flight Options pilots) feel their experience with this management should be powerful enough to convince others to see things their way. Unfortunatley, it doesn't work that way. Each person has to find out for themselves.

Keep this in mind. There is no doubt that Flexjet management and Flight Options management is one in the same. Management leads form the top down and KR, DAC and OneSky are at the helm. Managers and executive are blending on both sisters companies and will continue to do so.

So, ask yourself TWA. The things that I listed with regard to the Globals, the Phenoms, the hiring at Flexjet and the recalls at Flight Options. Are these not factual? Because I'm sure by now you discovered they are. Change has been and will continue to occur for both Flexjet and Flight Options. And hopefully those changes will all be good. KR and his team are smart and will trim the fat and increase the margins. That's what they should do.

The big question is "Are Flexjet pilots wiling to take the risk and trust this new team?" It is evident that many pilots feel deceived already. Many speak of their interest in the IBT to secure protections like Flight Options pilots have.

I'm sure you, TWA, will say that the IBT can't protect a thing. But, the fact that the Challengers are not being marketed by Flight Options and flown by Flexjet pilots is because of that CBA. On the flip side, the fact that the Phenom are being marketed by Flight Options and Flexjet but are being flown by Flight Options pilots is because of that CBA. The fact that Flexjet pilots will be wearing those monkey suits without any recourse and the Flight Options pilot have a say and recourse is because of that CBA.

I guess I'd like to know why the IBT is really so bad for a sister company - Flexjet? Not the "they are goobers" crap. Not the "they are crooked" crap. Not "they are just after your money."

With over 90% of this industry unionized, it's hard to find very many downsides. But, if you have them...really have legitimate factual reason in this situation... well, let's hear them. Them let's weigh all the real, factual pros and cons... Then let each pilot decide through an individual vote. We will see where the chips fall and live with it.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Was not familiar with that term, so I looked it up.

Firstly, I am not trying to lead the FJ pilots anywhere. I am expressing my opinion. In no way do I feel it is my job to stand up and tell the FJ pilots what they should or shouldn't do. They are all adults and professionals and can figure that out for themselves.

I do feel a personal responsibility to my fellow pilots to make sure they make their decisions based on accurate facts and not biased raw emotion and misinformation so another group can impose their agenda on the FJ pilots.

To say I am leading the FJ pilots to slaughter is wrong on several levels. I am not leading them and you are assuming that we are about to be slaughtered.

Straight from the talking points. This is why they are calling you the Bob Tyler of Flex behind your back.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

Straight from the talking points. This is why they are calling you the Bob Tyler of Flex behind your back.

Not sure who this is?

You also keep using the term "talking points" and I am also not familiar with what that means. If talking points = expressing my views then I understand.

I have noticed you use the word "they" in most of your posts. Still wondering who this mythical "they" is that you have conversations with.