FedEx at Air Inc.

[FNG_that's me]

I'm not really a stone thrower, but I must sum up what's going on here:

mar=inferiority complex

757=sour grapes

I suspect that airlines like military pilots because when they're flying an engine-out approach down to mins the company wants that to not be the scariest situation the pilot has ever seen in an airplane.

 

[AdlerDriver]

As I said before, this thread isn't about how I'm treated on the flight deck.

This thread is about a certain level of bias and now with your latest post even condescension by military pilots towards civilian pilots.

If I, in fact, have a bias it's only been re-enforced by my personal experiences.

And I suppose you could make the same point--and essentially did.

I should have more confidence? Puh-LEEZE! I can forgive this one because we've never flown together...I'm borderline cocky. The "Five Hazardous Attitudes....I invented four of them...

Enjoy your career. You earned it.

I think you tend to see things in people's statements (written and verbal) that aren't really there. How was my last post condescending? How did I exhibit a bias? I acknowledged the value of a diverse pilot force and said that was the best way to have it.

If you're so borderline cocky than why do you seem to be so concerned with this Captain "appreciating" your DC-6 experience? Let your flying abilities speak for you. Then you don't need to convince anyone of anything. They'll see if for themselves.
Adios.

 

[b757driver]

As I said before, this thread isn't about how I'm treated on the flight deck.

This thread is about a certain level of bias and now with your latest post even condescension by military pilots towards civilian pilots.

If I, in fact, have a bias it's only been re-enforced by my personal experiences.

And I suppose you could make the same point--and essentially did.

I should have more confidence? Puh-LEEZE! I can forgive this one because we've never flown together...I'm borderline cocky. The "Five Hazardous Attitudes....I invented four of them...

Once again, I have to agree with mar....some military guys just don't get it! It's not about "us" vs "them", it's about the CIVILIAN cockpit of a jetliner, not some F-16 maverick. The two are world's apart. Yes, the transition can be made between the two. Attitude is more difficult and I guess some feel the need to huddle because that's what they're used to - the old boys' club. What they forget is that they ain't in the military anymore and when you go to a new environment, the norm is to assimilate, not create another status quo and retain a herding instinct.
I made the transition 100% and never looked back. After my reserve time was over, I was on my own, no cushy club to fall back on in any manner, shape or form. And I feel a whole lot better knowing I did it myself with absolutely NO help from anyone.
Again, because some don't get it, I'm perfectly happy where I am and have NO desire to go elsewhere right now. My whole point is about biasness and how some on this thread think that's OK and everyone should see it their way and only a military pilot can be the best. That is so naieve that it doesn't even warrant a response. In an earlier example I mentioned the ex-military Capt who blew 4 tires on a fully-laden 747 because he "forgot" to flare and tried to blame it on the aircraft. How come, if he was so good, well-trained etc. that he could possibly have been so dumb? Gosh, I suppose he was human like the rest of us and therefore EQUALLY able to make the same mistakes as the rest of the pilot fraternity. Like I said, it's all about attitude, respect for everyone and fairness. I'm surprised these virtues seem foreign to some.

 

[b757driver]

B757 driver,

Why don't you clue us in on who your employer is. Or explain why you don't want to.

Just curious how your schedule, benefits, retirement and W2 compares.

BTW, I DID work my my tail off the "old fashioned way" and earned my concrete job, even with internal recommendations. You have NO idea what you're talking about.

Why should I and what difference would it make anyway???? Compares to what?
That makes TWO of us then!

 

[mar]

Now this is gettin' fun!

I suspect that airlines like military pilots because when they're flying an engine-out approach down to mins the company wants that to not be the scariest situation the pilot has ever seen in an airplane.

I was taking this thread pretty seriously until I read this. That is truly hilarious.

Tell me, Sky God, which is a more perilous situation? An engine out on a DC6 or an engine out on a turbojet aircraft?

If you think it's six one way and half a dozen the other, then you too have a total loss of perspective.

This thread is really perfect in a lot of ways because you guys are making my points for me.

But honestly I'm not giving you enough credit. You want so badly to know that your job was rightly acquired through hard work, skill and knowledge. After all, this ain't no flying club where any little rich kid can sign up.

I love the threads started by guys just gettin' out of the military: "Should I go to FedEx or UPS?"

You know, it's like: "Should I wear my brown dress today or my purple dress."

Who cares? Let's go eat.

 

[FNG_that's me]

Sky God...yes, I like that.

Tell me, Sky God, which is a more perilous situation? An engine out on a DC6 or an engine out on a turbojet aircraft?


If you think it's six one way and half a dozen the other, then you too have a total loss of perspective.

Well, I guess that depends on if your turbo-jet is a B-52 or an F-16...talk about loss of perspective.


I'm starting to think that this topic is over your head. I didn't say that there is or isn't a bias, but I did try to explain why someone might prefer a pilot from a certain background.

Allow me to expand. The airlines don't want a pilot to feel(or be) in over his head when the $hit hits the fan in the company aircraft. If a pilot's only background is, say, small plane CFI, commuter slave, major pilot, then when his 737 loses an engine on the approach it might really be the scariest thing that has ever happened to him in his life...by far. Not so for someone who has been shot at while in an aircraft, or landed on the carrier at night, or taken an 8-ship into a grinder, or, yes, even flown the DC-6 into an IFR arrival through a gorge in Alaska...I guess I should add 'or been married'

Let's also clear up two common misconceptions:
1)The airlines are actually hiring you for your piloting skills...mostly false. Sure, you need to be good enough, but they are hiring you for your personality...both as it relates to being a good crew member and to being a good employee

2)The best way to prepare to be a 7x7 captain is to fly the 7x7 a lot...mostly false. Certainly knowlege and experience in the aircraft is a big help, but it is your varied experience that makes you a good captain and gives you the ability to adapt to the next situation that the sim checker had never thought of...(along with the personality that they look for above).

I think that most people can agree with this: a varied background makes for the best candidate. I hear that all the time from both civilian and military folks. Well, here's what I draw from that. Every pilot that is hired at company X will get the same experience in the next 10 years. So the 'varied' part must come before they get hired. If all they did was takeoff, cruise and land for the last 10 years, then they won't have a very varied background 10 years from now...see where I'm going...Now, if they did something out of the ordinary(see the 4 examples 3 paragraphs above) then in 10 years you've got a captain(or furloughee at USAir[sorry]) with quite a diverse flying history under his belt.

That right there is what I think makes the military pilot marketable to the civilian world. Let's face it, you can't dispute that they've dealt with some crazy $hiznit! Heck, the F-16 guy who still has one engine on the DC-10 is smokin' a Lucky on final...no big deal to him. Ok, kind of a big deal, but I think ya get the point.

Think of it as training to be an olympic miler. There is a whole lot more training than just running a mile. Weights, diet, psych preparation...stuff that isn't directly running, but sure helps when the whole package is put together...even the running is varied with sprints to long slow distance. Heck, the warmup jogs before the race add up to more than a mile...all to win the gold in a mile race.

If your issue is that you don't think you get the right amount of respect from the military guys, then I think you do have a complex. They might not know exactly what you did to get where you are, they might not even know what a DC-6 looks like, but they certainly appreciate that is wasn't an easy path to land the job. Again, excepting the 1% of them(and every other group in the world) that doesn't appreciate anything about anybody else.

You know, it's like: "Should I wear my brown dress today or my purple dress."

Cute...now go get your fukcin' shine box!!

 

[mar]

Keep talking fn new guy

<must> <exercsise> <superhuman> <restraint>

God I want to be so sarcastic right now.

This thread is above my head?

Never in my wildest dreams did I think I could actually sucker you guys into admitting that the bias exists and then to have you both demonstrate your condescension in such classic form. But you did it!

It's really beautiful.

Thanks, by the way, for your version of How To Become an Airline Pilot.

Golly, can you recommend a brand of sunglasses or maybe a watch that I should buy?

<sheesh>

 

[sandman2122]

From B757

Why should I and what difference would it make anyway???? Compares to what?
That makes TWO of us then!

Sounds like you're embarrassed or possibly ashamed of revealing this "great company" you've been talking about........

I know FedEx has it's flaws, there's not a perfect company out there, but it's hippocritical for someone to throw out attacks about one company when they don't reveal their own.......

 

[b757driver]

From B757



Sounds like you're embarrassed or possibly ashamed of revealing this "great company" you've been talking about........

I know FedEx has it's flaws, there's not a perfect company out there, but it's hippocritical for someone to throw out attacks about one company when they don't reveal their own.......

Your getting off track here again.......I did not say my present employer was either great or perfect. I said I was HAPPY there and with my lot. So sorry if that offends you and you think only the US majors are the bees knees. I happen to disagree with that and have found my own niche.

At least MY company is not so off the wall and values diversity and is not an old boys club. There is no reason for me to reveal anything, especially to someone as blinkered as you.

Embarrassed? Ashamed? Why? Because I have a job that I am content with and you want to compare apples and oranges? I don't think so.

 

[sandman2122]

I never said I was offended, I just have doubts about this airline you fly for....

Glad to hear this company you talk about is "not so off the wall" and "not an old boys club". Neither is mine. As an OUTSIDER you have no idea what it is like to interview and fly for FedEx - All you hear are stories on the road or on the internet.

Enjoy your job - I'm loving mine!

 

[b757driver]

I never said I was offended, I'm just starting to doubt if you even fly for this super-secret airline you claim.

Glad to hear your company is "not so off the wall" and "not an old boys club". Neither is mine. As an OUTSIDER you have no idea what it is like to interview and fly for FedEx - that's unless you were turned down or fired from us. All you hear are stories on the road or on the internet.

Enjoy your job - I'm loving mine!

You can doubt all you like.

Yep, you're right about one thing - not having any idea of what it is like to interview/fly for Fedex. That was automatically denied me some time ago when I asked around - not applied - to see what the deal was. When I found out what the real criteria was for hiring (from a Fedex Capt who offered to see whether it was worth my time applying) and not having any buds there. He categorically told me I would be wasting my time making a formal application since I did not have the 3 internal recs. His words, not mine. Therefore, I was able to make an informed decision whether to pursue a formal application or not.

Seems to me that's pretty much a closed shop!

Also, it was not my one and only iron in the fire at the time, so I moved on and got what I was looking for elsewhere. Nothing strange in that, is there? Why do you always assume the worst in your posts?

Turned down or fired? That's rich! How can you be turned down if you are denied an opportunity in the first place??!! Your logic is somewhat flawed. I've never worked for your company and I've never been turned down - unless you call not having 3 buds a turn down, in which case, you are correct again.....

Again, since you don't get it, I have NO desire - might have once but not now - to work for Fedex for the reasons given. It is not the only airline in the world you know and pilots can be content elsewhere too. Why is that so hard to fathom????

And yes, you're right again. All I hear is stories on the road, from the internet and folks like you and that FDX Capt. Seems like who do you believe and what do you believe??!!

Have a great and purple day!

 

[capt_zman]

Dude you weren't denied anything. So someone told you that you didn't stand a chance, so what. That shouldn't have stopped you from applying or trying to move forward and find a sponsor.

I'm glad you found something that you like instead, but it seems like you never really wanted to work here or else you wouldn't have given up so quickly. Finding recommendations isn't all that hard, you just have to try.

 

[b757driver]

Dude you weren't denied anything. So someone told you that you didn't stand a chance, so what. That shouldn't have stopped you from applying or trying to move forward and find a sponsor.

I'm glad you found something that you like instead, but it seems like you never really wanted to work here or else you wouldn't have given up so quickly. Finding recommendations isn't all that hard, you just have to try.

That's your opinion, dude and I happen to disagree with you. Last time I checked this was a free country but sometimes I have my doubts...

I gave up playing games, you're right on that one. If Fedex had an equal opportunity employment program then, yes, I would have been more interested. But I'm not interested in companies that play games, not anymore. Been there, done that and no more. You have to draw the line somewhere and I reached that point some time ago, so just accept it.

Easy? You conveniently forgot to mention the fact that you cannot merely solicit strangers at Fedex since they have to know you intimately and have flown with you in order to count!!! I know no one at Fedex and I don't even work in the US any more. That's pretty much an open and shut case and I was told that outright by your own.

And if you still don't believe me about LORs, I once applied to another carrier where I knew someone and that someone made a very strong recommendation. Not only that but I had a type rating and experience on two out of three aircraft types they operated, exceeded all their min requirements and they were actively hiring. What happened there? My sponsor there came back and said that they preferred to hire furloughed 10,000+ Captains from a bankrupt airline and put them in the right seat! So, I know all about LORS and what they can or cannot do. Funny thing is, if I had succeeded in interviewing in that airline, I would be out on the street right now! Now my sponsor is also looking for a job and has approached me. What goes around comes around.

I just decided to stop playing games and go elsewhere. I tried and succeeded, without having to do ANY of what you say is easy. Unfortunately, you do not know my background so you are assuming I have not tried or was not that interested.

 

[capt_zman]

I never said it was easy, just not that hard. I took me all of 1 month to network around and find a couple of people. Maybe it was luck, maybe not.

As for equal opportunity, nothing prevented you from applying except for yourself. Ask AlbieF15, he'll tell you so many success stories that derived from nothing except determination.

Sorry to hear about your experiences, and I'm not degrading you, but IMO, games are everywhere, most of the time you have to play to get what you want.

 

[FNG_that's me]

That's your opinion, dude and I happen to disagree with you. Last time I checked this was a free country but sometimes I have my doubts...

I gave up playing games, you're right on that one. If Fedex had an equal opportunity employment program then, yes, I would have been more interested. But I'm not interested in companies that play games, not anymore. Been there, done that and no more. You have to draw the line somewhere and I reached that point some time ago, so just accept it.

Easy? You conveniently forgot to mention the fact that you cannot merely solicit strangers at Fedex since they have to know you intimately and have flown with you in order to count!!! I know no one at Fedex and I don't even work in the US any more. That's pretty much an open and shut case and I was told that outright by your own.

And if you still don't believe me about LORs, I once applied to another carrier where I knew someone and that someone made a very strong recommendation. Not only that but I had a type rating and experience on two out of three aircraft types they operated, exceeded all their min requirements and they were actively hiring. What happened there? My sponsor there came back and said that they preferred to hire furloughed 10,000+ Captains from a bankrupt airline and put them in the right seat! So, I know all about LORS and what they can or cannot do. Funny thing is, if I had succeeded in interviewing in that airline, I would be out on the street right now! Now my sponsor is also looking for a job and has approached me. What goes around comes around.

I just decided to stop playing games and go elsewhere. I tried and succeeded, without having to do ANY of what you say is easy. Unfortunately, you do not know my background so you are assuming I have not tried or was not that interested.

So anyone who doesn't want to hire you has discrimanatory hiring practices? Get a grip.

Is your employer still hiring?
If they are so great, let the world know who they are so that the 12000 other people who can't get jobs at SWA, FDX or UPS can hop on the bandwagon with you on this gravy train!!!

 

[pilot141]

What we have here, folks, is a classic case of "What's good for me is good for everyone else".

b757driver decided that he didn't want to get a bunch of recs or play the networking game to get hired at an airline. Fair enough; that's his choice. He managed to find a job that he likes based solely on his logbook and his interview; again: good for him.

Where it all goes wrong is when b757 driver tries to project his experiences on to everyone else.

And here I address b757 driver directly: Just because you said "Screw it" to the whole FedEx process does not mean that the process itself is worthless.

Have you ever known ayone that has run a marathon? A buddy of mine just turned 40 and ran a marathon. Why the hell would he get up at 6 am and run 10, 12, or 15 miles three times a week? There was no chance of him winning anything; hell he'd be lucky to finish the race. But he ran and ran, and on race day he ran the entire dang race.

From my perspective every second he spent running was a waste of time. From his perspective those times were the most important times of his life.

Who is right?

We both are.

Everything depends on perspective. You cannot tell me what would be good for me, just as I cannot tell you what would be good for you.

I'm glad that you got a job that you enjoy, and that you are happy in your work. But you cannot come here and tell everyone that the way to a fulfilling job is the path YOU took.

Everyone here has different goals, different backgrounds and different expectations. Your loud proclamations that FedEx is a "closed shop" and not worth people's time are both inaccurate and misleading.

You chose not to apply at FedEx: fine. But at least give other people the chance to make their own decision rather than slandering a company that you never even applied to.

Fly safe.

 

[Tanner]

A little off the subject but,....I've got three internal LOR's and did the M&G back in early Sep. My sponsor was emailed from a Capt. ACP this week and was told they had misplaced my sponsor's SIW for my folder. The email stated that..."they were preparing my package for the next step; interview." I've got two questions: 1.) I haven't flown with any of the folks that have helped me to this point. Do I stand a chance in the interview?
2.) Is it possible that the time frame between M&G and actual interview call lesson?

Thanks in advance!

Just a civilian guy who respects all aviators no matter what their background is.

 

[New FDX Guy]

1.) I haven't flown with any of the folks that have helped me to this point. Do I stand a chance in the interview?

I don't think the interview takes into consideration this 'history.' You will be evaluated like everyone else and likely stand a pretty good chance of making it through. Be sure to get prepared early.

2.) Is it possible that the time frame between M&G and actual interview call lesson?

I don't speak jive, so I'm not sure what you're asking here, but the timing of the M&G and prospective call for interview is within the realm of normalcy. Perhaps even better than average.

Just a civilian guy who respects all aviators no matter what their background is.

At least you're saying the right stuff, good luck and enjoy the process.

 

[pilot141]

My sponsor was emailed from a Capt. ACP this week and was told they had misplaced my sponsor's SIW for my folder. The email stated that..."they were preparing my package for the next step; interview."

Trying to figure this out...From what I can get your sponsor is a regular Joe, but was told by an ACP (who happened to be a CA) that your folder had been misplaced.

Correct so far?

My response to anything like this: get your buds (ie your sponsor) to find out exactly WTF is going on with your package. Don't accept "preparing", etc.

Find out how you stand.....it might be VERY different than what you think.