FedEx at Air Inc.

[satpak77]

this is turning into a CIV versus MIL thread, I think we have enough of them on this forum already

"Joey has 4000 TT and 2000 in a SAAB, and Billy has 2000 TT, all in non-CRM crew F-16 jets"

who gets the job?

etc etc

I am sure Kit Darby has all the answers

 

[AdlerDriver]

Excellent post, mar!

You hit the nail on the head here. This attitude is certainly prevalent and some, but not all ,military guys have limited knowledge when it comes to the flip side. I'm also ex-military so I know it from BOTH sides.
Adler - you want a compelling example? I'll give you one, since you asked.
How about the Capt who blew four tires on a MLW 747 because he "forgot" to flare before landing in DXB and then blamed it on the brakes! No, he was not civilian. We all make mistakes and there are good apples as well as bad. You should know that.
People should respect each other as professionals, no matter what their backgrounds.
Since I am ex-military, I do appreciate what those guys have gone through, but they chose to leave and enter the civilian world which is NOT an extension of the military. When in Rome..... Next question?
And yes, I do apprciate what military aviators go through. Next question?

757driver,
Have you been drinking?? :laugh:
Most of your post is not even related to what we were discussing. Try to stay on point.
You may be ex-military – but your profile says “military non-aviator”. So YOU don’t know it from BOTH sides either. Being former military in itself doesn’t qualify you to talk about being a military PILOT. I don’t claim to know anything about driving a tank just because I was a military pilot. I would say that for every military pilot with “limited knowledge” of the “flip side”, there’s an equal number of civilian pilots ignorant of military aviation. Who cares.

Your compelling example…. WTF does that have to do with the discussion at hand?? Nothing. Just an obvious attempt to insert your agenda into this discussion. Some ex-military pilot porks away a landing – so what. That doesn't have anything to do with a pilot not “appreciating” the background of another. We weren’t talking about making mistakes. The fact that a military pilot chose to leave, the civilian world not being an extension of the military and “when in Rome”. Dude, WTF are you talking about. None of that was even talked about and isn’t germane to our discussion.

I think it’s safe to say, when pilots on this board say they’re “ex-military”, they mean they actually earned military wings and flew military aircraft. If you want to use YOUR ex-military status to attempt to bolster some opinion you throw out, make sure you acknowledge the fact that you haven’t. It also wouldn't hurt to have the opinion you offer have something to do with what's being talked about too.

 

[satpak77]

Jimmy flies G-4's but its all part 91, will that hurt him? He does have lots of international time.

Jimmy's buddy, Trevor, flies RJs, another EFIS jet, all part 121, but all domestic, no international time.

Who does _______ (insert major airline) call for the interview?

etc etc ad nauseum

 

[TheBaron]

b757driver...

You are correct in stating that I don't know you; I am forced to judge you by what you post.

b757driver quote...
It's been quite clear for some time that a whole community of potential employees are NOT being given an EQUAL opportunity and are being discriminated against for not having "enough buds" to recommend them. This remains the SOLE criteria for hiring, not experience, qualifications, nor individual merit or achievement.

I thought I pointed out that this is in fact not the case. Maybe you can read my post again more carefully.

b757driver quote...
Getting a ground job @ Fedex is NOT a way in. That's fact.

Funny...my sponsor (my only "bud recommendation") worked in operations at FedEx for 6 years and then decided to become a pilot. He went to school and worked his way up through the civilian ranks. His "ground job" there sure seemed to work out well for him.

b757driver quote...
Now I KNOW you have no idea what you are talking about and you CERTAINLY know nothing about me.

You KNOW that I don't know what I'm talking about... funny, I'm the one that went through the whole interview process and got the job, maybe I do know something that you don't.

b757driver quote...
FYI, I AM ex-military but that doesn't mean I have to follow the herd and that I can't speak for myself. Thank you for confirming what I already suspected!!!

What did you already suspect?
That I spent 13 years enlisted in the Marine Corps and got out to follow my dream. Or maybe you suspected that I have been a check airman on three different airplanes, for three different FSDO's. Maybe that I had been a Chief Pilot for two air carriers as well as a Director of Operations. Or maybe, just maybe, you don't know what YOU are talking about.

My entire point is that regardless of all the negative impressions people have about getting a chance at FedEx, there are plenty of people here that have done what you seem to think is impossible.

For all those non-connected civilians (like me) that dream of flying at FedEx,
don't give up.

 

[b757driver]

how about concentrating on the product you are trying to sell: YOURSELF.

don't worry about discrimination, quotas, rumors, etc. you can always find a hurdle if you want to. but, that's just a reason to be lazy in your career pursuit.

i've swallowed my pride a fair amount and it has resulted in some dreams coming true.

knock the chip off, check the ego, swallow the pride. focus all of that wasted energy on networking, resume presentation, interview preparation and make yourself a desirable candidate for the position.

it does take work and effort for most of us to get the call. believe me, it is worth all the effort.

best of luck

Been there, done that.......didn't work.

So....I swallowed my pride and did something totally different with my energy which required NO games, NO application fees, NO cookies, NO collecting resumes for possible hiring and NO years waiting for the "dream" job - I went overseas and pretty much wrote my own check. Not only that, but they paid for the type rating to boot!

The best part? The fact that I did not have to rely on others to get me an "in" and it was soley down to me whether I made the cut or not. I was able to control my own destiny. In fact, I did know a couple of people there already but it was neither a requirement nor necessary. I just did it the plain old-fashioned way, with hard work and an application for a concrete job.

I'll tell you, it was so refreshing being offered a position without playing silly games. They had a need for professional crews with experience, I had a need to change my circumstances and clearly had what they were looking for. Two parties coming together and able to reach a mutually beneficial result. Simple, nothing complicated nor convoluted.
I am more than happy with my lot and it would take something pretty phenonmenal to get me to take a similar position back home. For starters, I would have to take an immediate 50% salary cut! No thanks. I've already been approached by two companies back home that I turned down. It certainly feels very different when the boot is on the other foot.

Also, don't forget, not many people have the same circumstances. So while those that advocate persistence, realize that not everyone can afford the luxury of waiting years, sometimes many years. If a job is advertised and resumes are solicited, it is natural to assume that the need is for NOW, not in 10 years' time. If it is meant for future hiring then the ad should clearly state so. In some countries that would come under the Trades Description Act and/or truth in advertising.

Best of luck to everyone. If you want and are prepared to play games for sometimes several years, go ahead. If not, and you want a totally different experience where individual merit and real equal opportunity are valued, then you need to look at more innovating companies. Courses for horses, I guess.

 

[mar]

A complete loss of perspective

I certainly don’t doubt you run into an occasional ex-military @sshole. Every demographic has its 1% share of idiots. The guy in your example though……..What do you want him to do when you tell him you used to fly a DC6 in Alaska? Offer to suck your d!ck?

See?

It's this lack of perspective that bothers me.

And contrary to what Satpak77 thinks, this isn't your "typical" military vs. civilian thread.

I'm not suggesting that one is better than the other.

And contrary to what Mr. AdlerDriver thinks, I do, in fact, *appreciate* very much what it takes become a military pilot.

I'm sorry that I couldn't conjure a more compelling example for you. It was really a composite as I was trying to be brief and didn't want to bore you with a description of every flight deck conversation I've had.

This thread really has less to do with how I'm regarded at work than how you (in the general sense) would be naive to deny that a bias exists.

There *is* a bias. And I think the bias exists because military pilots tend to stick together. And that's not a criticism. But if you're fresh out of the military and you've had one civilian job, then, you know, where's your perspective? Where's your point of reference? Where's your measuring stick?

That's all I was trying to say.

By the way, when you check in with tower, do you still report "wheels down"?

 

[sandman2122]

B757 driver,

Why don't you clue us in on who your employer is. Or explain why you don't want to.

Just curious how your schedule, benefits, retirement and W2 compares.

BTW, I DID work my my tail off the "old fashioned way" and earned my concrete job, even with internal recommendations. You have NO idea what you're talking about.

 

[FNG_that's me]

If there is such a bias, and always has been, why didn't you just join the military, fly fighters and then get out and just walk into your dream job? You know, just do it the 'easy' way...

 

[FNG_that's me]

I hope all the military guys recognize the sarcasm in the previous post...sorry if it wasn't obvious

 

[mar]

Great question!

If there is such a bias, and always has been, why didn't you just join the military, fly fighters and then get out and just walk into your dream job? You know, just do it the 'easy' way...

I look really dumb in Aviator sunglasses.