Fallout from an age 60-Rule change

[FurloughedTwice]

We have pricing power, baby!!!

For paycuts, we would have to lose lots of money. I mean lots of cash. Name one healthy (airline) company that has asked and gotten paycuts from its employees? None, most were near or in bankruptcy for that to happen. We would have to be near bankruptcy for this topic to come up and I don't see that happening.

I agree that a lot would have to go wrong for SWA to sink into bankruptcy in the near future but if you guys think it can’t happen then I guess you haven’t been paying attention to the industry for the last 80 years. (Or the last 34 years in SWA’s case) Actually if you look at it from a statistical standpoint it will happen at some point in the future. SWA is a very well managed airline and I applaud that but you would be naïve if you thought “it can’t happen to us”. Just ask some of the UAL pilots that. I touched on this before but even your CEO said if it wasn’t for the fuel hedging SWA would not have made money. ( I know, that’s already under "pilot" debate) But it is a public company so that information is available if you are interested.

I think SWA is a great airline but you guys need to cool it on the egos a little bit. Just sit back and enjoy it because it won't last forever.

 

[Full of LUV]

Once again, I must state that I will gladly leave at 60 if Congress will pass a law granting accelerated Social Security and Medicare benefits to any employee arbitrarily forced to retire from their primary profession by a federal law.

Otherwise, I have a 7 year gap to cover if I get the water salute at 60 and I don't want to greet customers at Walmart waiting for medical coverage.

AKAAB

Yeah, because it's much easier to ask the government for a free handout then to negotiate medical care for retirees along with an actual retirement plan back when the legacies all had this. Now that you have crushed the competition, you want the government to change the longstanding rules to favor your contituents. Beautiful, this is just the state of America, it's easier to tear down the industry and ask for a handout then negotiate a market rate contract back through the 80's and 90's. And I don't want to hear the mantra about how the world was out to get SWA, they've been profitable for over how many straight quarters?????

 

[labbats]

I can never understand this logic. At the current fare level we are MAKING A PROFIT. Perhaps your logic should be aimed at a carrier that is NOT making a profit, then maybe they will notice that if you charge $89 for a product that costs $100 to produce, you CAN'T MAKE A PROFIT.

You mean at the current hedge level. If I remember correctly, AA would have made triple your profit if they had your hedges this past year.

 

[Reebo]

For paycuts, we would have to lose lots of money. I mean lots of cash. Name one healthy (airline) company that has asked and gotten paycuts from its employees? None, most were near or in bankruptcy for that to happen. We would have to be near bankruptcy for this topic to come up and I don't see that happening.

Are these rational thoughts from someone who holds a college degree, over 1000 hrs turbine PIC, and a B-737 type rating? I don't even know where to begin. What if some terroist group decides they like airplanes painted canyon blue? Or what if a design flaw is discovered on the B-737? Or the fuel hedge program is found to have had "ENRON" type deal making? Or try this one on for size. A killer snow storm hits BWI dumping 100 inches of snow, closing BWI for weeks. At the same time a earthquake levels Oakland. Then a squall line drives through Texas, leaving downtown Dallas, I.E Love field, unuseable for months. Think I'm crazy? these things can't happen? Well, for yours and everyone else's sake I hope we never "see" any of this.
Moral of the story, WN is not bullet proof.

 

[SWA/FO]

So let me get this straight.... Southwest is currently one of few airlines making money. Southwest is currently holding the bar up, repeat, holding the bar up on the industry. We are holding the line, saving the profession and you guys want us to give back our pay?

When DAL wanted UAL + 1% no one was saying "hey we should give back some money, because someday we might be in bankruptcy". Not one person. So now that a bunch of Legacy carriers are playing the low employee moral, cutbacks and bankruptcy game you guys want Southwest to play along? Well, guess what, we are making money, repet making money in this environment and we are not going to play that game.

When things get healthy again, you guys will base your negotiations off of our contract (if anyone could ever convert "trips to hourly" correctly), you guys should hope we keep the pace. So lets review, airline making money, holding the bar up for the whole industry & saving the profession! The closest thing to bulletproof there is.......Heroes we are!!!!

 

[SWA/FO]

Are these rational thoughts from someone who holds a college degree, over 1000 hrs turbine PIC, and a B-737 type rating? I don't even know where to begin. What if some terroist group decides they like airplanes painted canyon blue? Or what if a design flaw is discovered on the B-737? Or the fuel hedge program is found to have had "ENRON" type deal making? Or try this one on for size. A killer snow storm hits BWI dumping 100 inches of snow, closing BWI for weeks. At the same time a earthquake levels Oakland. Then a squall line drives through Texas, leaving downtown Dallas, I.E Love field, unuseable for months. Think I'm crazy? these things can't happen? Well, for yours and everyone else's sake I hope we never "see" any of this.
Moral of the story, WN is not bullet proof.

So the minute all this happens (hope not).... I'll be the first in line to give back all my pay? What is the rational here? Employees of UAL & AA on didn't give back money on 9/12/01?

 

[benelli]

SWA/FO: I can tell this is your first airline. You scare me. I sense you say what you say to get a rise out of people and not because you believe it. If that is not the case....you scare me more.

 

[SWA/FO]

Benelli,

This must be your first real airline... why you posting all this on flightinfo.com? Did you not get the union DVD? Did you watch it? I can't believe you would even type such a thing, being that you are one of us? Join the newfoundland group if you want to give back some of your pay. You never told us how long you have been here?

I may scare you, you scare me talking like you don't even work here....

 

[SWA/FO]

You mean at the current hedge level. If I remember correctly, AA would have made triple your profit if they had your hedges this past year.

But they didn't did they.

Yeah, and if the wright amendment was gone we would have tripled our profits.

 

[nimtz]

So let me get this straight.... Southwest is currently one of few airlines making money. Southwest is currently holding the bar up, repeat, holding the bar up on the industry. We are holding the line, saving the profession and you guys want us to give back our pay?

When DAL wanted UAL + 1% no one was saying "hey we should give back some money, because someday we might be in bankruptcy". Not one person. So now that a bunch of Legacy carriers are playing the low employee moral, cutbacks and bankruptcy game you guys want Southwest to play along? Well, guess what, we are making money, repet making money in this environment and we are not going to play that game.

When things get healthy again, you guys will base your negotiations off of our contract (if anyone could ever convert "trips to hourly" correctly), you guys should hope we keep the pace. So lets review, airline making money, holding the bar up for the whole industry & saving the profession! The closest thing to bulletproof there is.......Heroes we are!!!!

Guys like you fall the hardest when the mountain gives way. Fortuantely for your airline's sake I think most Southwest pilots are a little better clued into reality then you. Southwest 'saving the profession'. After the last four years industrywide I can't believe anybody is so delusion to even make claims like this anymore. PS it's far from a given that this economic growth cycle will continue in the years ahead.

BTW Benelli, great post. Couldn't said it any better myself

 

[sandman2122]

Maybe it's really the crabs affecting his logic......

BTW, he should cut back on the "canyon blue" koolaid.......it's staining his shirt.

 

[SWA/FO]

Dude, every SWA employees pay & QOL has gone up since 9/11/01.. All the other carriers (losing money) have cut pay and benefits. So when things get turned around, you don't think your unions going to look at the pay at other carriers? You know compare.... that sounds about right?

 

[canyonblue]

I think that the attitudes are on the other side. You are all back to 1993 and letting Southwest know that you are coming after us. Hello again Continental Lite, Metrojet, United Shuttle. We are hearing the same thing that was beat into Southwest 15 years ago, and the attitudes of the other pilots does not change a bit, in fact that attitude against Southwest, is what motivates many more than anything else, the fact that other pilots out there are still hoping we fail. Well, sorry if we disappoint you. If it seems that Southwest pilots have an "ego" on this board then great, why does that bother anyone? If that "ego" will be the downfall of Southwest then why let it bother you, after all it may be the very thing that helps ruin Southwest so let it catch on, and permeate the airline. I don't spend my time worrying about what a United or Continental pilot are thinking about, why care about what a Southwest pilot thinks. Does it really bother you that much if any Southwest pilot has an "ego"? Man if that is the biggest problem you face today, then you need more therapy than Flightinfo to help you with your problems with Southwest. Do the pilots at Southwest know this industry is tumultuous? Yes. Do the pilots at Southwest know that it could falter? Yes. Do we spend are time worrying about it? No. I go to work and do what’s best for my company and in turn I am doing what’s best for me. If the need arises to change what is best for the company then I will gladly do what is needed. The funny thing on this board is that many pilots are just like that friend that is in a miserable marriage. If you seem too happy with your marriage it makes them uncomfortable. They would rather you suffer with them, feel the real hate and anger that a bad marriage produces. Well, sorry if I'm happy. Misery loves company, no thanks, I think I like it here.

 

[jbDC9]

Southwest is currently one of few airlines making money. Southwest is currently holding the bar up, repeat, holding the bar up on the industry. We are holding the line, saving the profession....

you guys should hope we keep the pace. So lets review, airline making money, holding the bar up for the whole industry & saving the profession! The closest thing to bulletproof there is.......Heroes we are!!!!

Wow, this guy is a true American hero... can we nominate him for the Medal of Honor or something? Hold that bar up, don't drop it! Save the profession!

That must be some wicked good Kool-Aid they're passing out at SWA. And now, I feel like I need to go puke...

 

[SWAdude]

So let me get this straight.... Southwest is currently one of few airlines making money. Southwest is currently holding the bar up, repeat, holding the bar up on the industry. We are holding the line, saving the profession and you guys want us to give back our pay?

When DAL wanted UAL + 1% no one was saying "hey we should give back some money, because someday we might be in bankruptcy". Not one person. So now that a bunch of Legacy carriers are playing the low employee moral, cutbacks and bankruptcy game you guys want Southwest to play along? Well, guess what, we are making money, repet making money in this environment and we are not going to play that game.

When things get healthy again, you guys will base your negotiations off of our contract (if anyone could ever convert "trips to hourly" correctly), you guys should hope we keep the pace. So lets review, airline making money, holding the bar up for the whole industry & saving the profession! The closest thing to bulletproof there is.......Heroes we are!!!!

SWA/FO..

With all due respect,

Will you shut the f*ck up already!!!!

You are not doing anyone, any good.

 

[waitin]

What SWAdude said...

Chill already.

 

[Reebo]

So the minute all this happens (hope not).... I'll be the first in line to give back all my pay? What is the rational here? Employees of UAL & AA on didn't give back money on 9/12/01?

All I was trying to say is that things can change in an instant. I was just throwing out some unlikely situations that could harm WN's future. Benelli made a great post which I agree with. Enjoy life at WN, just don't think that it can't do a 180 in a very short period of time.

 

[SWAdude]

All I was trying to say is that things can change in an instant. I was just throwing out some unlikely situations that could harm WN's future. Benelli made a great post which I agree with. Enjoy life at WN, just don't think that it can't do a 180 in a very short period of time.

I have been hearing this for 12 years now.

9/11, recession, skyrocketing fuel prices....we can take quite the punch and keep going strong.

Give me an example of what it will take to make that sudden 180 that wouldn't also devastate the entire industry??

 

[canyonblue]

benelli,

Your post is your gut feelings, but posting it here really does not do much but have the peanut gallery chime in. Unfortunately, even though this post is more directed towards Southwest Pilots, there is no way to keep all the regulars from chiming in to provide their own "deep" thoughts. My advise to you is to submit your post to the Reporting Point, where it could reach a broader base of Southwest Pilots. There is no shortage of opinions in the Southwest pilot group, as you know, as well as many on this board. Unfortunately, like you said in your post, your opinions while flying at SWA from senior pilots, are greeted with the same velocity as on this board, a very happy Will you shut the f*ck up already!!!! With all due respect SWADude.

 

[FurloughedTwice]

Well said SWAdude!!

Short and to the point!!