Fallout from an age 60-Rule change

[SWAdude]

Nice, well thought out post.

First, if I was an FO I would certainly be against sr. 65. But since I am already a Captain I am sincerely neutral on the subject. I do think it has an air of discrimination to the existing rule. But if anyone cares about this it is because of money. No one is fooling anyone otherwise.

In regards to productivity, there is the assumption that the guys getting closer to retirement would give most away. I don't know if this is true. The guys that are fifty nine are rarely giving away. A matter of fact some pick up more knowing they are close to a pretty hefty pay cut. A very, very, very small percentage retire here with the mega multi millions. Those really are the guys that have been here 25 years or longer. Not many. So some feel the need to get it while they can.

You are correct in that it will cost more to hold on to the guys 5 more years for several reasons that we all know about. But its not as large of an issue as in some productivity issue that affects all of the pilots. Not even close. If it was an issue that would greatly affect the company, you wouldn't have the likes of Herb and Gary supporting the cause. And they do. Without reservation. They must see the value of holding on to our senior pilots.

I do understand both sides of this issue. Since I have gone from no-way to neutral, I wonder if thats because I could see me at 60 wondering why I have to leave now.

 

[m80drvr]

SWA/FO "Why would an airline that is making money want to cut pay & benefits and ruin a positive 34 + year relationship with its emplyoees? I personally don't think its going to happen... We would raise fares before any of this (your) doom and gloom would happen. We have pricing power, baby!!!"




Dammmnnn Dude, Wake up. It's called MONEY, when SWA stops making it where the hell do you think they will go. Raise prices you say, look at your prices on many of your routes compared to the rest of the carriers, I think you will find that your pricing power isnt as strong as you think. Look at Delta's positive relationship with its employees, If I remember the employees bought DAL a 767. I bet those guys wish they could get there money back now.

Before you get your panties in a wad, yes I agree SWA is a great place to work yada yada yada. BUT aviation has a long history of the mighty falling. your airplanes are getting older as is your pilot group. It could happen.

PS I'm not wishing failure on anyone, I've been furloughed twice so I know what it is like. I'm just being a realist.

 

[SWAdude]

Dammmnnn Dude, Wake up. It's called MONEY, when SWA stops making it where the hell do you think they will go. Raise prices you say, look at your prices on many of your routes compared to the rest of the carriers, I think you will find that your pricing power isnt as strong as you think. Look at Delta's positive relationship with its employees, If I remember the employees bought DAL a 767. I bet those guys wish they could get there money back now.

Before you get your panties in a wad, yes I agree SWA is a great place to work yada yada yada. BUT aviation has a long history of the mighty falling. your airplanes are getting older as is your pilot group. It could happen.

PS I'm not wishing failure on anyone, I've been furloughed twice so I know what it is like. I'm just being a realist.

This thread posted a great article on SWA's current situation. This might help in what SWA/FO was alluding to.

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=66693

 

[SWA/FO]

We are making money at the price of fares now......not a lot of carriers are. Now, that is pricing power. (below, a quote from the thread mentioned above)

"Although fare adjustments relate directly to customer price sensitivity, which must be carefully watched, the fare “headroom” provided by competitors increasing fares allows a chance for Southwest to potentially pocket as much as $2 billion annually if it were to restore it’s historical relative fare gap of 16 percent below the competition (rather than the 28 percent below performance of the second quarter 2005)."

For paycuts, we would have to lose lots of money. I mean lots of cash. Name one healthy (airline) company that has asked and gotten paycuts from its employees? None, most were near or in bankruptcy for that to happen. We would have to be near bankruptcy for this topic to come up and I don't see that happening.

 

[canyonblue]

I personally can't wait till SWA raises ticket prices....I hope it happens sooner than later.

I can never understand this logic. At the current fare level we are MAKING A PROFIT. Perhaps your logic should be aimed at a carrier that is NOT making a profit, then maybe they will notice that if you charge $89 for a product that costs $100 to produce, you CAN'T MAKE A PROFIT.

 

[TheDogsBollocks]

I can never understand this logic. At the current fare level we are MAKING A PROFIT. Perhaps your logic should be aimed at a carrier that is NOT making a profit, then maybe they will notice that if you charge $89 for a product that costs $100 to produce, you CAN'T MAKE A PROFIT.

Well if SWA puts its fares up, unlike the unprofitable carriers you quote who may make a only minimal profit, SWA will make even more money! What's wrong with that?

 

[miles otoole]

I can never understand this logic. At the current fare level we are MAKING A PROFIT. Perhaps your logic should be aimed at a carrier that is NOT making a profit, then maybe they will notice that if you charge $89 for a product that costs $100 to produce, you CAN'T MAKE A PROFIT.

Exactly. Why should SWA raise ticket prices when they are making money? A very myopic view of the airline industry-"As soon as SWA raises prices, all the carriers can raise prices and make money too." They'll keep 'em low until 2 or 3 carriers are six feet under and only then think about raising fares. Why should WN care about the health of its competition?

 

[wndshr]

How long you been at Southwest:beer: ?

Why would an airline that is making money want to cut pay & benefits and ruin a positive 34 + year relationship with its emplyoees? I personally don't think its going to happen... We would raise fares before any of this (your) doom and gloom would happen. We have pricing power, baby!!!

That is soooooooooo ironic! That is what I said about my job at a Legacy Carrier about 6 years ago when I was new....I guess nothing last forever, make sure to have a backup plan!

 

[Flopgut]

We are making money at the price of fares now......not a lot of carriers are. Now, that is pricing power. (below, a quote from the thread mentioned above)

"Although fare adjustments relate directly to customer price sensitivity, which must be carefully watched, the fare “headroom” provided by competitors increasing fares allows a chance for Southwest to potentially pocket as much as $2 billion annually if it were to restore it’s historical relative fare gap of 16 percent below the competition (rather than the 28 percent below performance of the second quarter 2005)."

For paycuts, we would have to lose lots of money. I mean lots of cash. Name one healthy (airline) company that has asked and gotten paycuts from its employees? None, most were near or in bankruptcy for that to happen. We would have to be near bankruptcy for this topic to come up and I don't see that happening.

You are out of control! Just the fact that SWA has someone as clueless as you in their employ should make the stock price go down. SWA cannot lose even ONE dollar. The instant SWA can't make a profit your stock will be permanently broken in the eyes of Wall Street. The TV talking heads will be on your pilot payscales like racoons on a can of beans. There is no shorter distance for an airline than from success to failure. You need to dump this attitude that your airline is impervious to problems. You need to tune into what this Benelli poster has to say. You had better hope open skies doesn't put a bunch of us legacy pilots out of work. Because in pretty short order all of us furloughed types will end up working for the US equivilent of Ryanair. Who, according to one of the latest AW&ST issues, eventually want to be able to offer airline tickets for free. I don't need a calculator to tell you tha even SWA can't compete with "free". Listen to Benelli, and learn.

 

[AKAAB]

Once again, I must state that I will gladly leave at 60 if Congress will pass a law granting accelerated Social Security and Medicare benefits to any employee arbitrarily forced to retire from their primary profession by a federal law.

Otherwise, I have a 7 year gap to cover if I get the water salute at 60 and I don't want to greet customers at Walmart waiting for medical coverage.

AKAAB