Fallout from an age 60-Rule change

[TheDogsBollocks]

I can never understand this logic. At the current fare level we are MAKING A PROFIT. Perhaps your logic should be aimed at a carrier that is NOT making a profit, then maybe they will notice that if you charge $89 for a product that costs $100 to produce, you CAN'T MAKE A PROFIT.

Well if SWA puts its fares up, unlike the unprofitable carriers you quote who may make a only minimal profit, SWA will make even more money! What's wrong with that?

 

[miles otoole]

I can never understand this logic. At the current fare level we are MAKING A PROFIT. Perhaps your logic should be aimed at a carrier that is NOT making a profit, then maybe they will notice that if you charge $89 for a product that costs $100 to produce, you CAN'T MAKE A PROFIT.

Exactly. Why should SWA raise ticket prices when they are making money? A very myopic view of the airline industry-"As soon as SWA raises prices, all the carriers can raise prices and make money too." They'll keep 'em low until 2 or 3 carriers are six feet under and only then think about raising fares. Why should WN care about the health of its competition?

 

[wndshr]

How long you been at Southwest:beer: ?

Why would an airline that is making money want to cut pay & benefits and ruin a positive 34 + year relationship with its emplyoees? I personally don't think its going to happen... We would raise fares before any of this (your) doom and gloom would happen. We have pricing power, baby!!!

That is soooooooooo ironic! That is what I said about my job at a Legacy Carrier about 6 years ago when I was new....I guess nothing last forever, make sure to have a backup plan!

 

[Flopgut]

We are making money at the price of fares now......not a lot of carriers are. Now, that is pricing power. (below, a quote from the thread mentioned above)

"Although fare adjustments relate directly to customer price sensitivity, which must be carefully watched, the fare “headroom” provided by competitors increasing fares allows a chance for Southwest to potentially pocket as much as $2 billion annually if it were to restore it’s historical relative fare gap of 16 percent below the competition (rather than the 28 percent below performance of the second quarter 2005)."

For paycuts, we would have to lose lots of money. I mean lots of cash. Name one healthy (airline) company that has asked and gotten paycuts from its employees? None, most were near or in bankruptcy for that to happen. We would have to be near bankruptcy for this topic to come up and I don't see that happening.

You are out of control! Just the fact that SWA has someone as clueless as you in their employ should make the stock price go down. SWA cannot lose even ONE dollar. The instant SWA can't make a profit your stock will be permanently broken in the eyes of Wall Street. The TV talking heads will be on your pilot payscales like racoons on a can of beans. There is no shorter distance for an airline than from success to failure. You need to dump this attitude that your airline is impervious to problems. You need to tune into what this Benelli poster has to say. You had better hope open skies doesn't put a bunch of us legacy pilots out of work. Because in pretty short order all of us furloughed types will end up working for the US equivilent of Ryanair. Who, according to one of the latest AW&ST issues, eventually want to be able to offer airline tickets for free. I don't need a calculator to tell you tha even SWA can't compete with "free". Listen to Benelli, and learn.

 

[AKAAB]

Once again, I must state that I will gladly leave at 60 if Congress will pass a law granting accelerated Social Security and Medicare benefits to any employee arbitrarily forced to retire from their primary profession by a federal law.

Otherwise, I have a 7 year gap to cover if I get the water salute at 60 and I don't want to greet customers at Walmart waiting for medical coverage.

AKAAB

 

[FurloughedTwice]

We have pricing power, baby!!!

For paycuts, we would have to lose lots of money. I mean lots of cash. Name one healthy (airline) company that has asked and gotten paycuts from its employees? None, most were near or in bankruptcy for that to happen. We would have to be near bankruptcy for this topic to come up and I don't see that happening.

I agree that a lot would have to go wrong for SWA to sink into bankruptcy in the near future but if you guys think it can’t happen then I guess you haven’t been paying attention to the industry for the last 80 years. (Or the last 34 years in SWA’s case) Actually if you look at it from a statistical standpoint it will happen at some point in the future. SWA is a very well managed airline and I applaud that but you would be naïve if you thought “it can’t happen to us”. Just ask some of the UAL pilots that. I touched on this before but even your CEO said if it wasn’t for the fuel hedging SWA would not have made money. ( I know, that’s already under "pilot" debate) But it is a public company so that information is available if you are interested.

I think SWA is a great airline but you guys need to cool it on the egos a little bit. Just sit back and enjoy it because it won't last forever.

 

[Full of LUV]

Once again, I must state that I will gladly leave at 60 if Congress will pass a law granting accelerated Social Security and Medicare benefits to any employee arbitrarily forced to retire from their primary profession by a federal law.

Otherwise, I have a 7 year gap to cover if I get the water salute at 60 and I don't want to greet customers at Walmart waiting for medical coverage.

AKAAB

Yeah, because it's much easier to ask the government for a free handout then to negotiate medical care for retirees along with an actual retirement plan back when the legacies all had this. Now that you have crushed the competition, you want the government to change the longstanding rules to favor your contituents. Beautiful, this is just the state of America, it's easier to tear down the industry and ask for a handout then negotiate a market rate contract back through the 80's and 90's. And I don't want to hear the mantra about how the world was out to get SWA, they've been profitable for over how many straight quarters?????

 

[labbats]

I can never understand this logic. At the current fare level we are MAKING A PROFIT. Perhaps your logic should be aimed at a carrier that is NOT making a profit, then maybe they will notice that if you charge $89 for a product that costs $100 to produce, you CAN'T MAKE A PROFIT.

You mean at the current hedge level. If I remember correctly, AA would have made triple your profit if they had your hedges this past year.

 

[Reebo]

For paycuts, we would have to lose lots of money. I mean lots of cash. Name one healthy (airline) company that has asked and gotten paycuts from its employees? None, most were near or in bankruptcy for that to happen. We would have to be near bankruptcy for this topic to come up and I don't see that happening.

Are these rational thoughts from someone who holds a college degree, over 1000 hrs turbine PIC, and a B-737 type rating? I don't even know where to begin. What if some terroist group decides they like airplanes painted canyon blue? Or what if a design flaw is discovered on the B-737? Or the fuel hedge program is found to have had "ENRON" type deal making? Or try this one on for size. A killer snow storm hits BWI dumping 100 inches of snow, closing BWI for weeks. At the same time a earthquake levels Oakland. Then a squall line drives through Texas, leaving downtown Dallas, I.E Love field, unuseable for months. Think I'm crazy? these things can't happen? Well, for yours and everyone else's sake I hope we never "see" any of this.
Moral of the story, WN is not bullet proof.

 

[SWA/FO]

So let me get this straight.... Southwest is currently one of few airlines making money. Southwest is currently holding the bar up, repeat, holding the bar up on the industry. We are holding the line, saving the profession and you guys want us to give back our pay?

When DAL wanted UAL + 1% no one was saying "hey we should give back some money, because someday we might be in bankruptcy". Not one person. So now that a bunch of Legacy carriers are playing the low employee moral, cutbacks and bankruptcy game you guys want Southwest to play along? Well, guess what, we are making money, repet making money in this environment and we are not going to play that game.

When things get healthy again, you guys will base your negotiations off of our contract (if anyone could ever convert "trips to hourly" correctly), you guys should hope we keep the pace. So lets review, airline making money, holding the bar up for the whole industry & saving the profession! The closest thing to bulletproof there is.......Heroes we are!!!!

 

[SWA/FO]

Are these rational thoughts from someone who holds a college degree, over 1000 hrs turbine PIC, and a B-737 type rating? I don't even know where to begin. What if some terroist group decides they like airplanes painted canyon blue? Or what if a design flaw is discovered on the B-737? Or the fuel hedge program is found to have had "ENRON" type deal making? Or try this one on for size. A killer snow storm hits BWI dumping 100 inches of snow, closing BWI for weeks. At the same time a earthquake levels Oakland. Then a squall line drives through Texas, leaving downtown Dallas, I.E Love field, unuseable for months. Think I'm crazy? these things can't happen? Well, for yours and everyone else's sake I hope we never "see" any of this.
Moral of the story, WN is not bullet proof.

So the minute all this happens (hope not).... I'll be the first in line to give back all my pay? What is the rational here? Employees of UAL & AA on didn't give back money on 9/12/01?

 

[benelli]

SWA/FO: I can tell this is your first airline. You scare me. I sense you say what you say to get a rise out of people and not because you believe it. If that is not the case....you scare me more.

 

[SWA/FO]

Benelli,

This must be your first real airline... why you posting all this on flightinfo.com? Did you not get the union DVD? Did you watch it? I can't believe you would even type such a thing, being that you are one of us? Join the newfoundland group if you want to give back some of your pay. You never told us how long you have been here?

I may scare you, you scare me talking like you don't even work here....

 

[SWA/FO]

You mean at the current hedge level. If I remember correctly, AA would have made triple your profit if they had your hedges this past year.

But they didn't did they.

Yeah, and if the wright amendment was gone we would have tripled our profits.

 

[nimtz]

So let me get this straight.... Southwest is currently one of few airlines making money. Southwest is currently holding the bar up, repeat, holding the bar up on the industry. We are holding the line, saving the profession and you guys want us to give back our pay?

When DAL wanted UAL + 1% no one was saying "hey we should give back some money, because someday we might be in bankruptcy". Not one person. So now that a bunch of Legacy carriers are playing the low employee moral, cutbacks and bankruptcy game you guys want Southwest to play along? Well, guess what, we are making money, repet making money in this environment and we are not going to play that game.

When things get healthy again, you guys will base your negotiations off of our contract (if anyone could ever convert "trips to hourly" correctly), you guys should hope we keep the pace. So lets review, airline making money, holding the bar up for the whole industry & saving the profession! The closest thing to bulletproof there is.......Heroes we are!!!!

Guys like you fall the hardest when the mountain gives way. Fortuantely for your airline's sake I think most Southwest pilots are a little better clued into reality then you. Southwest 'saving the profession'. After the last four years industrywide I can't believe anybody is so delusion to even make claims like this anymore. PS it's far from a given that this economic growth cycle will continue in the years ahead.

BTW Benelli, great post. Couldn't said it any better myself