Falcon 50ex

[LegacyDriver]

(On the phone with CRJ now...)

Hey CRJ,

I WAGER A BEER THAT MY POST BEATS YOURS.

Ready...?

1...2...3...

 

[LegacyDriver]

Baaaastardo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[hgi2006]

LegacyDriver - Don't you have something else to do, other than act childish?

I suggest you take one of your 50's up for some x-wind landing practice; what do you think? Clearly, you need some practice to learn proper rudder usage. Maybe taking a tailwheel a/c up would be good for you too?

You're a disgrace to Dassault to be representing the product as you do. You're the only person I've found that has a complaint about the way the Falcon flies. Pilot error?

 

[LegacyDriver]

LegacyDriver - Don't you have something else to do, other than act childish?

Childish? You're the one accusing me of being three people and questioning my piloting skill. Talk about childish.

I suggest you take one of your 50's up for some x-wind landing practice; what do you think? Clearly, you need some practice to learn proper rudder usage. Maybe taking a tailwheel a/c up would be good for you too?

Dude, I grew up in South Texas. I didn't land into the wind until I went to the Regionals. Any time, any day, you want to meet for a X-Wind landing competition I'm game. Loser pays a year's salary.

You're a disgrace to Dassault to be representing the product as you do. You're the only person I've found that has a complaint about the way the Falcon flies. Pilot error?

Dassault is a good enough disgrace to itself. They still haven't caught the Legacy in a number of areas with their 7X. Those guys already *FAILED* at producing a Regional Jet. Yep, that's right. Dassault built a Regional Jet that nobody would buy. NOBODY. Cuz they don't know how.

An RJ needs to work all the time, in any weather, with any crosswind imaginable without jamming a rudder to the floor to do it. Falcon couldn't handle it.

As for being the only pilot who says Falcons suck in X-Winds, etc.... Every pilot I have spoken to that has flown a *REAL* airplane (Embraer, Canadair, Gulfstream)--other than dyed in the wool Falcon junkies-- says the same as I do: Falcons are under-ruddered, overrated pieces of sh*t. Limitation on the Falcon 7X for X-Wind component is 23 knots.

WHATEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

USELESS.

Having landed an EMB with a 45-knot direct crosswind without even sweating I can tell you that I know how to do it. In a 50? Fat chance. Maybe if you sideload it and rip all the tires off.

PLEASE.

What kind of moron designed the Falcon control system any way? You barely breathe on the damned yoke and the plane responds but to get the rudder to do *ANYTHING* you have to push it three times as far as on any other airplane.

STUPID.

Bad design.

Horrible.

Embraer has it right all the way. The double rudder and coupled nosewheel steering gives ABSOLUTE and COMPLETE authority to the pilot exactly as he wants it, when he wants it. The Falcon??? No airplane I have ever flown has such pathetic and ridiculous (lack of) rudder authority.

Then again, Falcon has a history of under-ruddered airplanes. That's why they had to add rudder to the 50EX over the 50...and it still isn't enough. That's also why the 7X can barely keep the centerline on a 15-knot X-wind (Falcon is going back to the drawing board and adding additional nosewheel authority to the thing because it only has like three degrees and that ain't cutting it with the wimpy rudder).

Ever try an upwind engine failure at max demo crosswind in the sim in 50EX? Pretty dicey maneuver. My sim partner crashed three times before he got it right. (I got it right first time because I watched what he did wrong. Was still a near thing.)

Embraer? Hell, I had V1 Failures in the sim where I intentionally left the rudder neutral just to see what it did. All that happened was it flew with a crab.

Embraers are built to be flown by 300-hour pilots. That's the kind of airplane I want. Faithful. Honest. True. Easy. Maybe someday Falcon will get a f'ing clue. I doubt it.

Heck, France can't even defend their own nation from the Germans (TWICE). What makes anyone think they can build an airplane that's worth a sh*t?

Grow up.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

LeagacyDriver wrote --

Dude, I grew up in South Texas. I didn't land into the wind until I went to the Regionals. Any time, any day, you want to meet for a X-Wind landing competition I'm game. Loser pays a year's salary.


Quote:
You're a disgrace to Dassault to be representing the product as you do. You're the only person I've found that has a complaint about the way the Falcon flies. Pilot error?
Dassault is a good enough disgrace to itself. They still haven't caught the Legacy in a number of areas with their 7X. Those guys already *FAILED* at producing a Regional Jet. Yep, that's right. Dassault built a Regional Jet that nobody would buy. NOBODY. Cuz they don't know how.

An RJ needs to work all the time, in any weather, with any crosswind imaginable without jamming a rudder to the floor to do it. Falcon couldn't handle it.

As for being the only pilot who says Falcons suck in X-Winds, etc.... Every pilot I have spoken to that has flown a *REAL* airplane (Embraer, Canadair, Gulfstream)--other than dyed in the wool Falcon junkies-- says the same as I do: Falcons are under-ruddered, overrated pieces of sh*t. Limitation on the Falcon 7X for X-Wind component is 23 knots.

WHATEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

USELESS.

Having landed an EMB with a 45-knot direct crosswind without even sweating I can tell you that I know how to do it. In a 50? Fat chance. Maybe if you sideload it and rip all the tires off.

PLEASE.

What kind of moron designed the Falcon control system any way? You barely breathe on the damned yoke and the plane responds but to get the rudder to do *ANYTHING* you have to push it three times as far as on any other airplane.

STUPID.

Bad design.

Horrible.

Embraer has it right all the way. The double rudder and coupled nosewheel steering gives ABSOLUTE and COMPLETE authority to the pilot exactly as he wants it, when he wants it. The Falcon??? No airplane I have ever flown has such pathetic and ridiculous (lack of) rudder authority.

Then again, Falcon has a history of under-ruddered airplanes. That's why they had to add rudder to the 50EX over the 50...and it still isn't enough. That's also why the 7X can barely keep the centerline on a 15-knot X-wind (Falcon is going back to the drawing board and adding additional nosewheel authority to the thing because it only has like three degrees and that ain't cutting it with the wimpy rudder).

Ever try an upwind engine failure at max demo crosswind in the sim in 50EX? Pretty dicey maneuver. My sim partner crashed three times before he got it right. (I got it right first time because I watched what he did wrong. Was still a near thing.)

Embraer? Hell, I had V1 Failures in the sim where I intentionally left the rudder neutral just to see what it did. All that happened was it flew with a crab.

Embraers are built to be flown by 300-hour pilots. That's the kind of airplane I want. Faithful. Honest. True. Easy. Maybe someday Falcon will get a f'ing clue. I doubt it.

Heck, France can't even defend their own nation from the Germans (TWICE). What makes anyone think they can build an airplane that's worth a sh*t?

Grow up.





LD -

When I was in school with your DO/Chief Pilot (?) from what they said, they had no problems with 15kt crosswinds in the 7X? Did you ask them? Im guessing they may be interested in knowing this 7X info and rudder problems only you seem to know about? I sure am!

X-wind issues? Neither myself nor the rest of the classes complained about landing issues?...I cant say Im a diehard Falcon fan, but the FBW Falcon is pretty impressive to me...but then again Im only rated in 7 business jets at this point...and have never flown an Embarear.

How about you? did you have problems up there in Morristown? congrats on the new rating anyhow, even if it's "useless"...why not look at it this way - you can go elsewhere and easily double+ your salary with that rating? thats not useless!

FWIW 30+kts was not a problem in the sim either...did you not do this demo?

Your crosswind problems really sound like a serious issue and should be looked into before you damage an airplane, or worse.

3 crashes and another near crash in the sim due to crosswinds?? - while I cant speak for yours, I'd definitely like to know about that within my department.

 

[sleepy]

LegacyDriver - Don't you have something else to do, other than act childish?

I suggest you take one of your 50's up for some x-wind landing practice; what do you think? Clearly, you need some practice to learn proper rudder usage. Maybe taking a tailwheel a/c up would be good for you too?

You're a disgrace to Dassault to be representing the product as you do. You're the only person I've found that has a complaint about the way the Falcon flies. Pilot error?

LOL, I was wondering about this too. I have landed with gusting x-winds up to 40 kts in the 50EX and never had a problem. The 50EX is a great flying aircraft, the 900 is even better. If I was looking for an aircraft handling would be an important consideration. The only real problem we have had the the 50EX is the engines (which are made by Honeywell).

 

[54fighting]

LD-

I have flown both airframes you speak of. I was one of the first to fly the 145 here in the US so I was pretty much a test pilot on the thing. Would you like the laundry list of everything that was a shortcoming on the airplane or the actual system failures I had. I really enjoyed climbing through 10,000' accelerating through 250 knots and around 290-300 kts, getting the sweet rumble in your lower back of the non existent tailplane flutter.

Point is, don't bull$hit a bull$hitter. No airframe is perfect.

 

[hgi2006]

Childish? You're the one accusing me of being three people and questioning my piloting skill. Talk about childish.

LegacyDriver, you have a reputation! Many of us know about your "piloting skills." I'd prefer not to call your attributes "skills" though. That would be giving you too much credit.

Dude, I grew up in South Texas. I didn't land into the wind until I went to the Regionals. Any time, any day, you want to meet for a X-Wind landing competition I'm game. Loser pays a year's salary.

That sound risky, considering you need full rudder to land a Falcon 50EX in a crosswind! But, whose year salary does the loser pay? Mine or yours? I need to clarify this since it's a $80k difference or so.

An RJ needs to work all the time, in any weather, with any crosswind imaginable without jamming a rudder to the floor to do it. Falcon couldn't handle it.

2,500+ hrs in Falcons and I've never cancelled a trip. Do you remember why the Legacy wasn't at the big golf tournament up in Napa in 2006? Because it broke!

As for being the only pilot who says Falcons suck in X-Winds, etc.... Every pilot I have spoken to that has flown a *REAL* airplane (Embraer, Canadair, Gulfstream)--other than dyed in the wool Falcon junkies-- says the same as I do: Falcons are under-ruddered, overrated pieces of sh*t. Limitation on the Falcon 7X for X-Wind component is 23 knots.

WHATEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

USELESS.

That limitation will be changing. I suppose it's better than the limitation of "can't touchdown under load or aircraft will crack down the center."

Having landed an EMB with a 45-knot direct crosswind without even sweating I can tell you that I know how to do it. In a 50? Fat chance. Maybe if you sideload it and rip all the tires off.

I am not saying that the Embraer product won't land under a 45 knot crosswind and make the pilot look good. So the Falcon requires a pilot with a bit of skill, who cares? Just because one person doesn't have the skill to land the aircraft in a crosswind doesn't mean the airplane sucks.

What kind of moron designed the Falcon control system any way? You barely breathe on the damned yoke and the plane responds but to get the rudder to do *ANYTHING* you have to push it three times as far as on any other airplane.

Every airplane handles differently, and I think the 50EX handles pretty well.

When do you buy a new car do you say to yourself "What kind of moron designed this steering system? My old car required 3 turns of the wheel and still didn't turn very tight. At 1.5 turns, this car is already 180 degrees where it started from! It sure turns tight... piece of crap!"

Then again, Falcon has a history of under-ruddered airplanes. That's why they had to add rudder to the 50EX over the 50...and it still isn't enough. That's also why the 7X can barely keep the centerline on a 15-knot X-wind (Falcon is going back to the drawing board and adding additional nosewheel authority to the thing because it only has like three degrees and that ain't cutting it with the wimpy rudder).

Well, you're the first to report that from the several 7X pilots I've spoken to. How many hours do you have in the 7X?

Ever try an upwind engine failure at max demo crosswind in the sim in 50EX? Pretty dicey maneuver. My sim partner crashed three times before he got it right. (I got it right first time because I watched what he did wrong. Was still a near thing.)

Sure I've done that exercise many times. And I've never crashed. Your sim partner crashed three times? You know, just because someone doesn't fly the maneuver properly or well, it doesn't mean the airplane is crap. It may be time to look at the pilot.

Embraer? Hell, I had V1 Failures in the sim where I intentionally left the rudder neutral just to see what it did. All that happened was it flew with a crab.

It sounds like the regionals are/were a great place for you. Obviously, this corporate aviation field requires more skill than you possess. Oh well, at least you gave it the good 'ol college try.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

FWIW -

Anyone with a 7X rating should also know there is NO x-wind landing limitation.

There never was.

 

[masedogg19]

As I read this thread, I realize how happy I am that LD (interesting initials BTW) doesn't bother posting at the other site anymore.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

As I read this thread, I realize how happy I am that LD (interesting initials BTW) doesn't bother posting at the other site anymore.

He has no choice, he is banned.

There is some accountability over there and nobody is a complete stranger.

One also cannot make up 5 screennames and respond to and/or argue with himself....only one per clown over there!

(If you can only imagine someone actually doing that...hummm..)

whatever...its the internet - be a rock star...or even a legacy!!!



:erm:

 

[LegacyDriver]

He has no choice, he is banned.

No, I'm not banned at all. I quit going because you guys are just as immature there as you were here...

 

[LegacyDriver]

LD -

When I was in school with your DO/Chief Pilot (?)...

I'm betting it was my assistant chief. He's a good guy.

...[F]rom what they said, they had no problems with 15kt crosswinds in the 7X? Did you ask them? Im guessing they may be interested in knowing this 7X info and rudder problems only you seem to know about? I sure am!

I cannot speak for anyone. I only know what the 7X drivers I've spoken to said. The airplane is being tweaked for X-Wind performance by Dassault.

X-wind issues? Neither myself nor the rest of the classes complained about landing issues?

Well it is a common complaint on Falcons.

How about you? did you have problems up there in Morristown? congrats on the new rating anyhow, even if it's "useless"...why not look at it this way - you can go elsewhere and easily double+ your salary with that rating? thats not useless!

USELESS was not the right word to use. I should have said SENSELESS. The control harmony for all three axes should be the same, IMHO. The Falcon rudder doesn't have the fidelity it should in *MY OPINION.*

FWIW 30+kts was not a problem in the sim either...did you not do this demo?

I did. I thought the Embraer did it a lot better.

Your crosswind problems really sound like a serious issue and should be looked into before you damage an airplane, or worse.

Not gonna happen. That's why we have alternates. If I don't feel comfortable with the winds I'll go elsewhere and my CP won't say a word. Other guys have done it. We don't place a high value on overinflated egos here. Safety is priority #1 and nobody is ever questioned for a safety of flight decision.

3 crashes and another near crash in the sim due to crosswinds?? - while I cant speak for yours, I'd definitely like to know about that within my department.

Uhhhhh I never said I crashed. Learn to read.

 

[LegacyDriver]

That sound risky, considering you need full rudder to land a Falcon 50EX in a crosswind!

Ever heard of "HYPERBOLE" by chance?



hy·per·bo·le [hahy-pur-buh-lee]

–noun Rhetoric.

1.obvious and intentional exaggeration.
2.an extravagant statement or figure of speech not intended to be taken literally, as “to wait an eternity.”




For example the Falcon isn't really a POS. I just like the EMB better so I speak hyperbolically about the Falcon at times...

That limitation will be changing.

Is it a limitation or not? G200 says it isn't. I've been told it is.

I am not saying that the Embraer product won't land under a 45 knot crosswind and make the pilot look good. So the Falcon requires a pilot with a bit of skill, who cares? Just because one person doesn't have the skill to land the aircraft in a crosswind doesn't mean the airplane sucks.

Would you rather have an airplane that makes you look good or an airplane that makes you look great? Frankly I'll take the latter if offered.

I've never tried to land a 50EX with a 45-knot Xwind and unless I'm in an emergency I won't bother. That's my perogative as a pilot. It's good to know it will do it though.

Every airplane handles differently, and I think the 50EX handles pretty well.

It is a very spry airplane. No question about it. The EMB flew a lot more like a truck. Again, if I could change the 50EX I would make the rudder respond more with less input so it is more in line with the Aileron/Elevator (though not quite as sensitive).

That's just me.

Sure I've done that exercise many times. And I've never crashed. Your sim partner crashed three times? You know, just because someone doesn't fly the maneuver properly or well, it doesn't mean the airplane is crap. It may be time to look at the pilot.

The guy seemed like a pretty good pilot to me (we don't always go to initial/recurrent class with co-workers). There's obviously a reason why the Sim Instructor showed it to us. He was making a valid point.

It sounds like the regionals are/were a great place for you. Obviously, this corporate aviation field requires more skill than you possess. Oh well, at least you gave it the good 'ol college try.

OUCH. Thanks!

So now that we've bashed me let's get back to bashing airplanes...

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I'm betting it was my assistant chief. He's a good guy.

It was both Director of Ops and Asst Chief (?), but as you know they share the same name....

and yes, very nice guys, very professional.

They must feel terrible that they make you to fly such an "Overrated Piece of Sh*t" , as you call it above...