Falcon 50ex

[CRJCA]

I have flown with LegacyDriver and he does a very nice job. If he says the Legacy is much easier than 50 i believe him. For him. Every pilot is as different as these airplanes and arguing the point is a very arbritary and futile point. I have to admit, I like the 50 as well, but simply not as much as my previous airplane. When it boils down, LD comes from a plane based off an airliner and has 1996 technology as opposed to a plane based on 1970s technology. Perhaps our friend LD is just a techie and like the new stuff.

 

[Swass]

What about the midair in Brazil with the airliner and the Legacy (I think it was a Legacy). Looked pretty durable if it took that hit if memory serves me. The airliner didn't fare so well (which doesn't prove anything).

Just another point...



What you guys should be arguing, even though this has been entertaining, is why you are accepting such low end pay for a high end airframe?

 

[Swass]

Double post

 

[LegacyDriver]

Trust me we've all been beating oursleves over the head about the low pay... It is what it is. A crystal ball is always nice but mine has been deferred inop. (Also, though we are the lowest paid 50 drivers around, I believe starting salary is over $70K and bumps up significantly after end of probation--six months. Your $63K assertion is way off.)

From my perspective the point is about the 50EX and alternatives to it.

As you can see, once people start losing the argument about the EMB they assault the messenger. Implications that I'm inexperienced or am a sucky pilot, overly biased, "the 'only' person in the world" who says good things about the airplane, etc..

I take that as a sign my contention is valid, otherwise, why stoop to ad hominem attacks?


Then there is the tactic of using the A1P Legacy I and its well known deficiencies to impugn the Legacy 600. It would be like saying a 737-700 sucks because the 737-200 had turbojets instead of fans.


And of course, everytime someone loses the battle over the EMB they trot out the old Rio EMB-145 crash where the fuselage broke. This my friends is also a red herring. The plane crashed due to pilot error yet managed to taxi off the runway with no serious injuries. Even though the airplane was *crashed* and impacted the ground with a force that greatly exceeded design limits, EMB (to their credit) went back and added additional structure to the fuselage to prevent this from happening again.

That said, the moment of the engines, baggage, and behind-the-wing/aft-of-wing passengers on a 145 is much higher than that on the Legacy because the fuselage is so much shorter on the latter. A 135 probably would have stayed intact without the additional support, and all 145s in service today would as well due to a design change.

Again, the Rio plane was *crashed* due to pilot error and it is quite fortunate nobody was killed. That the plane taxiied under its own power off the runway is flat out amazing.

I do not see it as an indictment of the Legacy or its relatives in any way.

 

[rumrnr78]

Not sure where you get that 63k figure but I can assure you that starting pay is more than that with a raise after probation. With bonus and stock it is North of 100k in the first year. And, don't forget to add in a great schedule with Texas hill country living!

LegacyDriver is passionate about the Emb that's all. I second what CRJCA wrote.

Cheers- Rum

 

[400A]

Trust me we've all been beating oursleves over the head about the low pay... It is what it is. A crystal ball is always nice but mine has been deferred inop.

From my perspective the point is about the 50EX and alternatives to it.

As you can see, once people start losing the argument about the EMB they assault the messenger. Implications that I'm inexperienced or am a sucky pilot, overly biased, "the 'only' person in the world" who says good things about the airplane, etc..

I take that as a sign my contention is valid, otherwise, why stoop to ad hominem attacks?

Of course the old Rio EMB-145 crash where the fuselage broke is also a red herring. The plane crashed due to pilot error yet managed to taxi off the runway with no serious injuries. Even though the airplane was *crashed* and impacted the ground with a force that greatly exceeded design limits, EMB (to their credit) went back and added additional structure to the fuselage to prevent this from happening again.

That said, the moment of the engines on a 145 is much higher than that on the Legacy because the fuselage is so much shorter on the latter. A 135 probably would have stayed intact without the additional support, and all 145s in service today would as well due to a design change.

Again, the Rio plane was *crashed* due to pilot error and it is quite fortunate nobody was killed. That the plane taxiied under its own power off the runway is flat out amazing.

I do not see it as an indictment of the Legacy or its relatives in any way.

Not to mention that a Eastern DC-9 did the same thing, but everyone still climbs on them daily.

People always bash what they are not familiar with.

 

[LegacyDriver]

WOW! ha ha

Welcome to Flightinfo!!!!!!!!!




:uzi:


:smash:
:crying:

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I have flown with LegacyDriver and he does a very nice job. If he says the Legacy is much easier than 50 i believe him. For him. Every pilot is as different as these airplanes and arguing the point is a very arbritary and futile point. I have to admit, I like the 50 as well, but simply not as much as my previous airplane. When it boils down, LD comes from a plane based off an airliner and has 1996 technology as opposed to a plane based on 1970s technology. Perhaps our friend LD is just a techie and like the new stuff.

remember when Legacy Driver was exposed here for answering himself with 3-4 different screen names?

rumrnr78
CRJCA
Skull One

humm....

:erm:

 

[rumrnr78]

remember when Legacy Driver was exposed here for answering himself with 3-4 different screen names?

rumrnr78
CRJCA
Skull One

humm....

:erm:

LegacyDriver is a friend of mine as is CRJCA. I can assure you we are 3 different people. Check previous posts for proof- Cheers Rum (ex-Flexjetter)

 

[LegacyDriver]

LegacyDriver is a friend of mine as is CRJCA. I can assure you we are 3 different people. Check previous posts for proof- Cheers Rum (ex-Flexjetter)

No kidding! Why would I bother to *pay* for two extra memberships?
Once again, G200 can't win an argument with *facts* so he tries to attack my integrity.

The identities he refers to were actually, LegacyDriver, ERJ-140, and Vraciu. I had to re-register because FalconCapt couldn't beat me in a fair fight and locked down my account. We have long since buried the hatchet and that's why I'm here as LD.

If G200 ever stuck to the point of a thread the world would screech to a halt. No shocker he's at it again as usual.

Zzzzzzzzzz.....

 

[LegacyDriver]

LegacyDriver - it appears it takes you about 7 minutes to change screen names, pretty consistently. Why so long???

Nah, cuz there is a post up there where the difference is two minutes, one is thirty-seven minutes, and another that's twelve. So much for your theory. :nuts:

I'm pretty sure we could arrange a chat to show CRJ and RUM writing at the exact same time I am but what's the point?

I'm fairly certain as Rum stated that taking a look at post histories and length of time on this board would show we are different people. (If you look closely you'll probably see us logged in at the same time sometimes and other times not. Also I can guarantee you the IP addresses and Internet Service Providers we use are different. Pretty hard to drive to a new domain across town in seven minutes.)

Personally I could give a rip.

IF YOU SUSPECT I AM MASQUERADING AS THREE DIFFERENT USERS REPORT ME TO THE WEBMASTER. ​

(He has access to weblogs, IP Addresses, etc. to show we are in fact three different people. I look forward to my acquittal.)​

Apparently I've won the argument because all you can do to discredit me is cast personal aspersions and innuendo.

Final Score

Legacy 28
Falcon 3

 

[CRJCA]

It doesnt matter how many screen names a guy has. If he makes a valid point he can have as many as he wants. So I guess in LDs case hes making 4 times as many good points! However, I am not LD and neither id Rumrnr. Dont know who Skull whatever is but Im pretty sure its not LD. Ok next topic?

 

[LegacyDriver]

Is that seven minutes???????

BWAHAHAHAHAHAH

 

[LegacyDriver]

LOL! Silly boy.

Maybe we should ping pong a few messages.

Go kick rum out from whatever bridge he's sleeping under tonight.

 

[CRJCA]

Heh LegacyDriver bet my post beats yours. Ready? 1.........2........3...........

 

[LegacyDriver]

(On the phone with CRJ now...)

Hey CRJ,

I WAGER A BEER THAT MY POST BEATS YOURS.

Ready...?

1...2...3...

 

[LegacyDriver]

Baaaastardo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[hgi2006]

LegacyDriver - Don't you have something else to do, other than act childish?

I suggest you take one of your 50's up for some x-wind landing practice; what do you think? Clearly, you need some practice to learn proper rudder usage. Maybe taking a tailwheel a/c up would be good for you too?

You're a disgrace to Dassault to be representing the product as you do. You're the only person I've found that has a complaint about the way the Falcon flies. Pilot error?

 

[LegacyDriver]

LegacyDriver - Don't you have something else to do, other than act childish?

Childish? You're the one accusing me of being three people and questioning my piloting skill. Talk about childish.

I suggest you take one of your 50's up for some x-wind landing practice; what do you think? Clearly, you need some practice to learn proper rudder usage. Maybe taking a tailwheel a/c up would be good for you too?

Dude, I grew up in South Texas. I didn't land into the wind until I went to the Regionals. Any time, any day, you want to meet for a X-Wind landing competition I'm game. Loser pays a year's salary.

You're a disgrace to Dassault to be representing the product as you do. You're the only person I've found that has a complaint about the way the Falcon flies. Pilot error?

Dassault is a good enough disgrace to itself. They still haven't caught the Legacy in a number of areas with their 7X. Those guys already *FAILED* at producing a Regional Jet. Yep, that's right. Dassault built a Regional Jet that nobody would buy. NOBODY. Cuz they don't know how.

An RJ needs to work all the time, in any weather, with any crosswind imaginable without jamming a rudder to the floor to do it. Falcon couldn't handle it.

As for being the only pilot who says Falcons suck in X-Winds, etc.... Every pilot I have spoken to that has flown a *REAL* airplane (Embraer, Canadair, Gulfstream)--other than dyed in the wool Falcon junkies-- says the same as I do: Falcons are under-ruddered, overrated pieces of sh*t. Limitation on the Falcon 7X for X-Wind component is 23 knots.

WHATEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

USELESS.

Having landed an EMB with a 45-knot direct crosswind without even sweating I can tell you that I know how to do it. In a 50? Fat chance. Maybe if you sideload it and rip all the tires off.

PLEASE.

What kind of moron designed the Falcon control system any way? You barely breathe on the damned yoke and the plane responds but to get the rudder to do *ANYTHING* you have to push it three times as far as on any other airplane.

STUPID.

Bad design.

Horrible.

Embraer has it right all the way. The double rudder and coupled nosewheel steering gives ABSOLUTE and COMPLETE authority to the pilot exactly as he wants it, when he wants it. The Falcon??? No airplane I have ever flown has such pathetic and ridiculous (lack of) rudder authority.

Then again, Falcon has a history of under-ruddered airplanes. That's why they had to add rudder to the 50EX over the 50...and it still isn't enough. That's also why the 7X can barely keep the centerline on a 15-knot X-wind (Falcon is going back to the drawing board and adding additional nosewheel authority to the thing because it only has like three degrees and that ain't cutting it with the wimpy rudder).

Ever try an upwind engine failure at max demo crosswind in the sim in 50EX? Pretty dicey maneuver. My sim partner crashed three times before he got it right. (I got it right first time because I watched what he did wrong. Was still a near thing.)

Embraer? Hell, I had V1 Failures in the sim where I intentionally left the rudder neutral just to see what it did. All that happened was it flew with a crab.

Embraers are built to be flown by 300-hour pilots. That's the kind of airplane I want. Faithful. Honest. True. Easy. Maybe someday Falcon will get a f'ing clue. I doubt it.

Heck, France can't even defend their own nation from the Germans (TWICE). What makes anyone think they can build an airplane that's worth a sh*t?

Grow up.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

LeagacyDriver wrote --

Dude, I grew up in South Texas. I didn't land into the wind until I went to the Regionals. Any time, any day, you want to meet for a X-Wind landing competition I'm game. Loser pays a year's salary.


Quote:
You're a disgrace to Dassault to be representing the product as you do. You're the only person I've found that has a complaint about the way the Falcon flies. Pilot error?
Dassault is a good enough disgrace to itself. They still haven't caught the Legacy in a number of areas with their 7X. Those guys already *FAILED* at producing a Regional Jet. Yep, that's right. Dassault built a Regional Jet that nobody would buy. NOBODY. Cuz they don't know how.

An RJ needs to work all the time, in any weather, with any crosswind imaginable without jamming a rudder to the floor to do it. Falcon couldn't handle it.

As for being the only pilot who says Falcons suck in X-Winds, etc.... Every pilot I have spoken to that has flown a *REAL* airplane (Embraer, Canadair, Gulfstream)--other than dyed in the wool Falcon junkies-- says the same as I do: Falcons are under-ruddered, overrated pieces of sh*t. Limitation on the Falcon 7X for X-Wind component is 23 knots.

WHATEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

USELESS.

Having landed an EMB with a 45-knot direct crosswind without even sweating I can tell you that I know how to do it. In a 50? Fat chance. Maybe if you sideload it and rip all the tires off.

PLEASE.

What kind of moron designed the Falcon control system any way? You barely breathe on the damned yoke and the plane responds but to get the rudder to do *ANYTHING* you have to push it three times as far as on any other airplane.

STUPID.

Bad design.

Horrible.

Embraer has it right all the way. The double rudder and coupled nosewheel steering gives ABSOLUTE and COMPLETE authority to the pilot exactly as he wants it, when he wants it. The Falcon??? No airplane I have ever flown has such pathetic and ridiculous (lack of) rudder authority.

Then again, Falcon has a history of under-ruddered airplanes. That's why they had to add rudder to the 50EX over the 50...and it still isn't enough. That's also why the 7X can barely keep the centerline on a 15-knot X-wind (Falcon is going back to the drawing board and adding additional nosewheel authority to the thing because it only has like three degrees and that ain't cutting it with the wimpy rudder).

Ever try an upwind engine failure at max demo crosswind in the sim in 50EX? Pretty dicey maneuver. My sim partner crashed three times before he got it right. (I got it right first time because I watched what he did wrong. Was still a near thing.)

Embraer? Hell, I had V1 Failures in the sim where I intentionally left the rudder neutral just to see what it did. All that happened was it flew with a crab.

Embraers are built to be flown by 300-hour pilots. That's the kind of airplane I want. Faithful. Honest. True. Easy. Maybe someday Falcon will get a f'ing clue. I doubt it.

Heck, France can't even defend their own nation from the Germans (TWICE). What makes anyone think they can build an airplane that's worth a sh*t?

Grow up.





LD -

When I was in school with your DO/Chief Pilot (?) from what they said, they had no problems with 15kt crosswinds in the 7X? Did you ask them? Im guessing they may be interested in knowing this 7X info and rudder problems only you seem to know about? I sure am!

X-wind issues? Neither myself nor the rest of the classes complained about landing issues?...I cant say Im a diehard Falcon fan, but the FBW Falcon is pretty impressive to me...but then again Im only rated in 7 business jets at this point...and have never flown an Embarear.

How about you? did you have problems up there in Morristown? congrats on the new rating anyhow, even if it's "useless"...why not look at it this way - you can go elsewhere and easily double+ your salary with that rating? thats not useless!

FWIW 30+kts was not a problem in the sim either...did you not do this demo?

Your crosswind problems really sound like a serious issue and should be looked into before you damage an airplane, or worse.

3 crashes and another near crash in the sim due to crosswinds?? - while I cant speak for yours, I'd definitely like to know about that within my department.