FAA Revokes the two NWA Pilots licenses

[LittleDeuce]

CNN is reporting their licenses have been revoked. Very sad and very quick too.

 

[ultrarunner]

Sure was quick.

 

[S40Sailor]

CNN is reporting their licenses have been revoked. Very sad and very quick too.

I really wished they would have fell a sleep.
On the side, now they'll have a real life.

 

[aussieflyboy]

They did fall asleep... then lied about it. 1 1/2 hours of no communication and not once peeking at their MFD to see where they were? Because they were on a laptop? Do they take us for idiots?

 

[ultrarunner]

I really wished they would have fell a sleep.

I think they did sailor. And I suspect the investigation determined they lied about it, hence the revocation.

 

[ultrarunner]

I doubt the FO will answer his door tonight!

 

[COOPERVANE]

If true. Interesting they thought arguing or distracted by a laptop was somehow better than admitting to sleeping.

I wonder if they had kept their mouths SHUT and spoken to ALPA legal what the outcome would have been?

 

[ultrarunner]

If true. Interesting they thought arguing or distracted by a laptop was somehow better than admitting to sleeping.

I wonder if they had kept their mouths SHUT and spoken to ALPA legal what the outcome would have been?

I suspect they would still have the pilot certificates they worked so hard for!

So now, the NTSB has started the 48 hour clock to determine if a threat to safety exists.

What's interesting is that the NTSB must have felt these guys would be doing personal flying or be reinstated to the line. As it were, they were currently removed from airline flying status, so the emergency order would have no effect in their professional conduct.

 

[SEVEN]

If true. Interesting they thought arguing or distracted by a laptop was somehow better than admitting to sleeping.

I wonder if they had kept their mouths SHUT and spoken to ALPA legal what the outcome would have been?

Great point. If they lied, the outcome is much worse. Admit to sleeping, pull the fatigue card and try to improve rest/duty requirement, get terminated for inexusable behavior in the flight deck. 1 year later when public forgets, ALPA gets their jobs back. Honesty is always the best policy.

 

[WayBack]

I doubt the FO will answer his door tonight!

I would. Then I would be the media whooping boy when it came to the airlines problems. I would be the whistle blower and make some cash off of it.
There is no reason for them to try and get other flying jobs, the money they would make wouldn't be worth it.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Brutal. But merited.

Game over.

 

[WayBack]

Great point. If they lied, the outcome is much worse. Admit to sleeping, pull the fatigue card and try to improve rest/duty requirement, get terminated for inexusable behavior in the flight deck. 1 year later when public forgets, ALPA gets their jobs back. Honesty is always the best policy.

Right after they get the two drunk America West pilots their jobs back.

 

[S40Sailor]

I think they did sailor. And I suspect the investigation determined they lied about it, hence the revocation.

If they indeed lied, that wasn't the best move.
I guess we shall see.
In the meantime good luck to all of us, who knows what kind of nonsense rule is on our way.

 

[SEVEN]

Brutal. But merited.

Game over.

Not yet. Don't forget about Good Morning America and a book deal worth 5 years of pay.

 

[ultrarunner]

If they indeed lied, that wasn't the best move....

Sure isn't. Especially when the FBI is asking the questions. You have GOT to come clean when the FBI asks you a question. Simple as that!

 

[SEVEN]

Sure isn't. Especially when the FBI is asking the questions. You have GOT to come clean when the FBI asks you a question. Simple as that!

Isn't it a crime with penalties if you lie to federal investigators?

 

[flynryan15]

Yes, if they can prove you lied! Though it is very hard for them to prove it think Barry Bonds.

 

[shearedshaft]

Sure isn't. Especially when the FBI is asking the questions. You have GOT to come clean when the FBI asks you a question. Simple as that!

You don't have to say a word to the FBI. "I refuse to answer this question because it may self-incriminate me."

There is never (not once) a good reason to talk to a law enforcement officer when they are after your heiney. It's not like they're going to take your excuses and say, "Oh, ok. Never mind."

 

[ultrarunner]

Isn't it a crime with penalties if you lie to federal investigators?

Yes, it is a felony. I'm not sure what class of felony in Minnesota, but it is a felony.

 

[SEVEN]

Yes, it is a felony. I'm not sure what class of felony in Minnesota, but it is a felony.

For their sake...I sure do hope they told the truth. If not, I'm pretty sure the truth will come out eventually.

 

[ultrarunner]

You don't have to say a word to the FBI. "I refuse to answer this question because it may self-incriminate me."

There is never (not once) a good reason to talk to a law enforcement officer when they are after your heiney. It's not like they're going to take your excuses and say, "Oh, ok. Never mind."

Yeah, chatting it up with the FBI when they landed was not a good thing.

 

[S40Sailor]

They did fall asleep... then lied about it. 1 1/2 hours of no communication and not once peeking at their MFD to see where they were? Because they were on a laptop? Do they take us for idiots?

Aussie it's a ND, Airbus had not foresee the use of a Multi Function just yet.
Its an old aircraft after all.
On a other note, imagine if they had lower the overhead speakers volume in order to better hear a presentation, let's call it a power point, in case someone other than a pilot would read this. I am sure you could also say,
A compact sound system can easily fit in an overnight bag, in order to enhance the presentation, A Home theater experience if you will.

 

[Beaver79]

If true. Interesting they thought arguing or distracted by a laptop was somehow better than admitting to sleeping.

I wonder if they had kept their mouths SHUT and spoken to ALPA legal what the outcome would have been?

The FAA doesn't answer to ALPA...ALPA answers to the FAA. If they were questioned by federal investigators and found to be lying, I doubt ALPA would have been much help. Even if they were sleeping (as opposed to watching Super Troopers on the 19" MAC screen which apparently blocked the MFD) I don't think ALPA would do much to keep the FAA at bay in this case. The FAA cited "failing to heed instructions and operating an aircraft recklessly" - that leaves little room for sleeping or heated discussions. The politics of this situation make it tough on the pilots in question, ALPA, and for that matter, all of us airline guys and gals. Good luck to both of them - they are going to need it.

 

[flynryan15]

If you are on the wrong end of the questions from any law enforcement your only answer should be I am not refusing to cooperate. However I will not answer any of your questions until I consult my attorney and have him/her present.

 

[Flying the Line]

If it turns out they lied to the Feds it will be a big black eye on all pilots.

 

[GogglesPisano]

...ALPA answers to the FAA. .

How so?

 

[AAPilot]

They did fall asleep... then lied about it. 1 1/2 hours of no communication and not once peeking at their MFD to see where they were? Because they were on a laptop? Do they take us for idiots?

Aussie, Sounds like you are a perfect pilot based off of your responses on this subject. With all of the experience you have you should be at a much higher level of a aviation career than you've reached. God help you if you ever make any mistakes because you will be crucified as you obviously believe these pilots should be.

 

[Tref]

How come everyone assumes they lied?

I don't condone what they did with their laptops, but I can understand it. We've been tsunamied at Delta-North with information from this merger. It's alot of work just changing the pages with all of the revisions we get, let alone trying to figure out what it all means.

Not only have they changed our procedures a bunch of times, with multiple, sometimes unclear revisions to the changes, but everything else has changed; Our contract (think work rules), our bidding, our vacation, our benefits, our uniforms. We have two different company id numbers, about a dozen different websites to remember with passwords for each one. It just goes on and on and I know many of us are experiencing merger fatigue.

It doesn't mean that they should have been trying to figure something out on their laptops when they were flying, but I understand, not only the impatience to resolve one of the many issues we are dealing with, but also the burnout that many are currently experiencing that could cause someone to miss a radio call.

We should all reserve judgment until all the investigation is over and all of the information is out.

 

[COOPERVANE]

The FAA doesn't answer to ALPA...ALPA answers to the FAA. If they were questioned by federal investigators and found to be lying, I doubt ALPA would have been much help. Even if they were sleeping (as opposed to watching Super Troopers on the 19" MAC screen which apparently blocked the MFD) I don't think ALPA would do much to keep the FAA at bay in this case. The FAA cited "failing to heed instructions and operating an aircraft recklessly" - that leaves little room for sleeping or heated discussions. The politics of this situation make it tough on the pilots in question, ALPA, and for that matter, all of us airline guys and gals. Good luck to both of them - they are going to need it.

I'm not saying ALPA has any power over the FAA. What I am saying is I suspect ALPA legal could/should have told them to shut their mouth, THEN counseled them on what to say. ie the TRUTH. Any lawyer could have advised them better than what they actually did.

These days it seems prudent that our first phone call should be to the one on the orange card, or a lawyer before we speak to ANY official.

 

[exeagle]

How come everyone assumes they lied?

I don't condone what they did with their laptops, but I can understand it. We've been tsunamied at Delta-North with information from this merger. It's alot of work just changing the pages with all of the revisions we get, let alone trying to figure out what it all means.

Not only have they changed our procedures a bunch of times, with multiple, sometimes unclear revisions to the changes, but everything else has changed; Our contract (think work rules), our bidding, our vacation, our benefits, our uniforms. We have two different company id numbers, about a dozen different websites to remember with passwords for each one. It just goes on and on and I know many of us are experiencing merger fatigue.

It doesn't mean that they should have been trying to figure something out on their laptops when they were flying, but I understand, not only the impatience to resolve one of the many issues we are dealing with, but also the burnout that many are currently experiencing that could cause someone to miss a radio call.

We should all reserve judgment until all the investigation is over and all of the information is out.

Lots of new info, but is that really an excuse?? They didn't miss just one radio call. They missed over an hour's worth and forgot to fly the fu#king plane! While I feel bad for them and their families, they screwed up royally and put us all in a bad light....at least until the public forgets about it.