ExpressJet branded flying

[drinksonme]

Theo,

Since you obviously have a degree in aviation business management, why are you still at a regional with 6700 hrs. Why dont you call up XJT, or any other regional that seems to need you endless amount of knowledge, and help them with their development. Can you solve global warming, the war in Iraq, bring down the price of oil, and stop the demise of the auto industry in this world as well. I bet you have solved all of these problems at 37,000ft. Problem is, the only audience you have at that altitude is the poor sap that is stuck next to you. Get your message out man! Call that not-tallent-a$$-clown they call an executive at XJT with his useless MBA, A & P certificate, and years of military service, I bet he would love to hear all of your wise teaching. After all you took a aviation business managment class in college. Come on, go help them before they ruin the lives of thousands....I bet you'll just stay at that regional with 6700 hrs though, why....Quality of life right.

 

[Q400 Gear Bitch]

Dollar beers - keep the whole 12oz.

Every flight is catered with food...really good food...included in the ticket price.

Advantage Horizon is not so clear cut.

Um...dollar beers....free beers....dollar beers....FREE BEERS. Altho what up with the sno cap? Must have found a couple of cases hiding in the back of JP's car. I'm biased, so I'm leaning towards Horizon cuz of FREE BEERS!!! What kinda food you got? I'll trade a Sno Plow, or a Broken Halo 22 oz for your peanut butter and jelly....PSYCH!!!

 

[theo]

Theo,

Since you obviously have a degree in aviation business management, why are you still at a regional with 6700 hrs. Why dont you call up XJT, or any other regional that seems to need you endless amount of knowledge, and help them with their development. Can you solve global warming, the war in Iraq, bring down the price of oil, and stop the demise of the auto industry in this world as well. I bet you have solved all of these problems at 37,000ft. Problem is, the only audience you have at that altitude is the poor sap that is stuck next to you. Get your message out man! Call that not-tallent-a$$-clown they call an executive at XJT with his useless MBA, A & P certificate, and years of military service, I bet he would love to hear all of your wise teaching. After all you took a aviation business managment class in college. Come on, go help them before they ruin the lives of thousands....I bet you'll just stay at that regional with 6700 hrs though, why....Quality of life right.

Boy people sure get touchy if you don't blindly agree with them. Too bad for them. You should be thanking me sincerly for putting up the opposite opinion from your blind faith in a flawed plan. If nothing else, it gives you comic relief, or maybe makes you think and question what is happening at your airline. If you do those things you will be much better prepared to react to the changes your airline will face over the next 12 to 18 months. Maybe less. Good luck to all the kool aid drinkers, your going to need it.

 

[drinksonme]

Kool aid drinker, F@ck I snort it before it is even mixed. H2O is for pu$$y's. I really want to know though, why are you still at a regional with 6700 hrs? Is it QL or that you have not upgrade and gotten PIC, or is it that your "dream job" is not hiring? Humor me.

 

[captjim]

Boy people sure get touchy if you don't blindly agree with them. Too bad for them. You should be thanking me sincerly for putting up the opposite opinion from your blind faith in a flawed plan. If nothing else, it gives you comic relief, or maybe makes you think and question what is happening at your airline. If you do those things you will be much better prepared to react to the changes your airline will face over the next 12 to 18 months. Maybe less. Good luck to all the kool aid drinkers, your going to need it.

Theo, if you think that none of us has thought about the posibility of our airline being in big trouble, then you really do think you are a superior being. You're just another regional pilot Expert that wants to see us fail so you can say, I told you so. Well maybe we'll fail or maybe not. However, we don't need your advice, thank you. I'm sure your pilot group or managment can use your expert advice, why don't you give it to them.

 

[Sarag79]

Seriously, this is a ridiculous thread. Nobody knows what is going to happen with the XJT branded flying and only time will tell. Yes, time will tell not a pilot with far too much time on his hands trying to show off his multiplication skills. As far as "kool aid drinkers" I believe that's called a high employee morale. I can see how you may not recognize it, as it is very rare in this industry. However, anyone with any amount of intelligence will tell you it is priceless in a customer service industry.

 

[ARR-Jay]

Kool Aid taste better then the Sh t Sandwich.

 

[captjim]

Seriously, this is a ridiculous thread. Nobody knows what is going to happen with the XJT branded flying and only time will tell. Yes, time will tell not a pilot with far too much time on his hands trying to show off his multiplication skills. As far as "kool aid drinkers" I believe that's called a high employee morale. I can see how you may not recognize it, as it is very rare in this industry. However, anyone with any amount of intelligence will tell you it is priceless in a customer service industry.

Bingo! This post says it all for me, thank you Sarag79.

 

[BankAccount=0$]

When discussing the XJT branded flying vs. the success of XJT as a whole a few things are being overlooked.

First, this branded flying is NOT a new idea. Branded operations have been in the planning stages for a long time at XJT. Ever since CAL spun COEX off, XJT management have been looking at market trends, and potential city pairs for a branded point to point airline. I would almost guess that the CAL announcement that they were going to reduce XJT's flying was seen as a blessing more than a curse. CAL gave XJT the BEST aircraft in the fleet 44 of the newest XR's and 25 of the newest LR's. For an airline that is commited to making a branded operation work with 50 seat aircraft this was a big win. XJT has said all along (publicly at least) that they are going to use the 50 seat platform for what it was initally intended to do, serve small to medium city pairs with non-stop flights. The whole airline was built around the 50 seat jet, not around a plan of bringing on bigger equipment as fast as they can. This means that for them to sell this idea to the BOD, and for the BOD to sign off on the plan there must have been some pretty hard numbers that this thing was going to work.

Second, XJT has bid on flying for the Legacy carriers as well as Frontier, and Midwest. In the end they didn't get the flying, not because XJT costs are too high to be competitive, it's because XJT will not do the flying for a low return just to grow like CHQ, Mesa, or SkyWest. Yes, XJT did secure flying in a very limited basis for DAL out of LAX. Givin the size of the operation it seems to be more of an experiment than anything else, but it's only tying up 10 aircraft for something like 2 years (at a profit of course) so there is not much risk there.

Third, ANYONE flying for a regional airline should be praying that ExpressJet Airlines both the CAL side and the branded flying side are a success. When the pilot groups at the carriers with the best contracts win, it gives all of the regional pilot groups leverage to better their respective contracts.

 

[theo]

Theo, if you think that none of us has thought about the posibility of our airline being in big trouble, then you really do think you are a superior being. You're just another regional pilot Expert that wants to see us fail so you can say, I told you so. Well maybe we'll fail or maybe not. However, we don't need your advice, thank you. I'm sure your pilot group or managment can use your expert advice, why don't you give it to them.

Well I don't know you so all I have to go on is what you post to get a feel for what you think. Your posts indicate you want to bury your head in the sand and not hear anything that contradicts your hope that all will work out well for Xjet. If you are'nt interested in other views, than stay off the internet. You will probably be happier.

 

[Superpilot92]

Well I don't know you so all I have to go on is what you post to get a feel for what you think. Your posts indicate you want to bury your head in the sand and not hear anything that contradicts your hope that all will work out well for Xjet. If you are'nt interested in other views, than stay off the internet. You will probably be happier.

Your posts Indicate that you want XJT to fail! So how are your posts any different. You are just opposite, you want to "stick your head in the sand" with the prospect of XJT being successful. At least we have an interest in this whole situation. Do you? Or do you just like to pretend you know all there is to know about aviation Management? Sure things could go either way but Honestly Nothing we say is going to change the outcome. So
Mr. Know-It-ALL How many of the conference calls or Earnings reports or even Mgmt meetings have you sat in on? Just curious because you obviously know everything about ExpressJet Airlines.

 

[captjim]

Well I don't know you so all I have to go on is what you post to get a feel for what you think. Your posts indicate you want to bury your head in the sand and not hear anything that contradicts your hope that all will work out well for Xjet.

I, and my pilot group are very aware that the potential of failure of the branded flying is a possibility, you aren't telling us anything new. However, myself and my XJT brothers will continue to be optimistic and work hard to make our company successful.

If you are'nt interested in other views, than stay off the internet. You will probably be happier.

You are correct that my time would be better served by staying off of flightinfo at times.

 

[theo]

Your posts Indicate that you want XJT to fail! So how are your posts any different. You are just opposite, you want to "stick your head in the sand" with the prospect of XJT being successful. At least we have an interest in this whole situation. Do you? Or do you just like to pretend you know all there is to know about aviation Management? Sure things could go either way but Honestly Nothing we say is going to change the outcome. So
Mr. Know-It-ALL How many of the conference calls or Earnings reports or even Mgmt meetings have you sat in on? Just curious because you obviously know everything about ExpressJet Airlines.

You are wrong. Nothing in my posts indicate I want Xjet to fail. They just don't agree with your optimism. The problem I see is if I disagree with you you try to make it personal as if I some how am against you. Not true, so relax and rather than attacking me personally focus your arguments on why I may be wrong as some of your colleagues have tried to do. I obviously am interested or I wouldnt be having this discussion. I find it an interesting experiment, albeit extremly risky and probably foolhardy. Sorry it bothers you that not everyone believes your company made the right decision. But if you want me to shut up tell me something that demonstrates Xjet is doing well with the branded flying. That would do it......Maybe.

 

[Sarag79]

If I ever start using my spare time to calculate another airline's profit margin based on ticket sales on orbitz I hope someone is kind enough to put me out of my misery.

 

[Future Furlough]

Doom and Gloom...Sexiest twins around

I may be making this up, but I heard somewhere that the break even point is something less than three-quarters full of pax at $3.00 per gallon fuel. I'm not under the illusion that the branded flying cannot tank, but I'm not worried about my job, either.
:beer:
Once and...

 

[Superpilot92]

You are wrong. Nothing in my posts indicate I want Xjet to fail. They just don't agree with your optimism. The problem I see is if I disagree with you you try to make it personal as if I some how am against you. Not true, so relax and rather than attacking me personally focus your arguments on why I may be wrong as some of your colleagues have tried to do. I obviously am interested or I wouldn't be having this discussion. I find it an interesting experiment, albeit extremely risky and probably foolhardy. Sorry it bothers you that not everyone believes your company made the right decision. But if you want me to shut up tell me something that demonstrates Xjet is doing well with the branded flying. That would do it......Maybe.

So lets get this straight you said that My colleagues have "Tried" to prove you wrong, so does that mean you are right? Because your opinion is hardly the breaking point of XJT. Look, to be honest with you I really dont care if you are on our side or not. The deal is you are going Way out of your way to try and "Prove" we are going to fail. I hope you will excuse me for not whipping out Formulas to Prove to you that things will be fine. I will leave that to our Management Team. Bottom line is WE have a great group here and 95% of the people who work for XJT are very happy working here. You call that "Koolaid" we call that pride. God forbid a person be proud of where they work. I know thats hard to believe by some people because of the state of the regionals but thats how it is here. Hopefully in time WE will prove your Opinion Wrong. Until then its all nothing more than Opinions. Fly safe

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Theo,

I respect and appreciate your attempt at trying to quantify the issue using a real world example but frankly, your methodology and assumptions are simplistic and not a propos to the real world of airline flying. The CASM numbers XJT publishes are based on a world of pure CPA flying - not branded flying.

Furthermore, as others have said above, the fare levels change depending on the time of day and how many days out prior to the flight. Also, you ignored the fact that most of XJT's fixed costs will be allocated to the CPA flying that XJT does, which will lower its segmented CASM for the branded flying.

Lastly, I know the people in charge of this venture incredibly well from the Director of Corporate Strategy/Business Development on up to the CEO himself. They are very pragmatic and thoughtful managers who have been studying this issue for over 3 years. They are well aware of the risks involved in such an operation. Is it a sure thing? Of course not. But no new business venture ever is. I give them credit for trying something new that hasn't been tried before. But I highly doubt that you will see a $120 million loss allocated to 44 jets worth of flying. Time will tell though.

-Neal

PS - I no longer work for XJT...and haven't for the past 12 months.

 

[theo]

Theo,

I respect and appreciate your attempt at trying to quantify the issue using a real world example but frankly, your methodology and assumptions are simplistic and not a propos to the real world of airline flying. The CASM numbers XJT publishes are based on a world of pure CPA flying - not branded flying. This is true, unfortunatly when you get away from a CPA world your cost go up not down, as now you have all of your revenue related costs that you will pay as opposed to CO paying for them today ie; CRS booking fees, Travel Agent commissions, Credit Card fees etc.

Furthermore, as others have said above, the fare levels change depending on the time of day and how many days out prior to the flight. Also, you ignored the fact that most of XJT's fixed costs will be allocated to the CPA flying that XJT does, which will lower its segmented CASM for the branded flying.

Again true enough, the question is whatever the ultimate fare mix turns out to be, will it produce sufficient revenue. True my methods are simplistic, but when simple indicates such terrible results, than the mgmt better be brilliant to figure out how to make it work. I guess the jury is still out on that one.

As to using bookkeeping tricks to allocate costs to CPA flying as opposed to branded flying. That is simply a way of fooling yourself. Cost is cost, at the end of the day if you want to show it in your CPA flying or branded, it still must be paid . If your revenue isnt there the end result is your gonna lose money.

Lastly, I know the people in charge of this venture incredibly well from the Director of Corporate Strategy/Business Development on up to the CEO himself. They are very pragmatic and thoughtful managers who have been studying this issue for over 3 years. They are well aware of the risks involved in such an operation. Is it a sure thing? Of course not. But no new business venture ever is. I give them credit for trying something new that hasn't been tried before. But I highly doubt that you will see a $120 million loss allocated to 44 jets worth of flying. Time will tell though.

-Neal

PS - I no longer work for XJT...and haven't for the past 12 months.

Neal,

Congratulations for attacking the ideas, not the person. You may be right as to the intelligence of XJet management team. Just remember that the team at FlyI were also lauded as a real intelligent, pragmatic, thoughtful and innovative. Everyone wanted them to succeed also, everyone said they were glad to see a Regional step out from the shadows to assert themselves. Ultimatly everyone offered condolences when it collapsed. But those who lived it were the ones who have been slowly picking up the pieces since then. Airline history is loaded with companies who failed miserably after being hailed as the next great innovator.

And to all at Express Jet who have stood up for your airline, I say bravo. It is truly good to see people who like their job and want it to continue and are willing to defend their company, no matter how carried away they sometimes get in doing so.

Finally Neal, looks like you were smart enough to get out when the getting was good, congrats!

 

[BluDevAv8r]

Neal,

Congratulations for attacking the ideas, not the person. You may be right as to the intelligence of XJet management team. Just remember that the team at FlyI were also lauded as a real intelligent, pragmatic, thoughtful and innovative. Everyone wanted them to succeed also, everyone said they were glad to see a Regional step out from the shadows to assert themselves. Ultimatly everyone offered condolences when it collapsed. But those who lived it were the ones who have been slowly picking up the pieces since then. Airline history is loaded with companies who failed miserably after being hailed as the next great innovator.

And to all at Express Jet who have stood up for your airline, I say bravo. It is truly good to see people who like their job and want it to continue and are willing to defend their company, no matter how carried away they sometimes get in doing so.

Finally Neal, looks like you were smart enough to get out when the getting was good, congrats!

Theo, I don't think anyone is touting XJT as the next great innovator. I think they are just looking for any way possible to make a few bucks using smart thinking. They don't describe themselves as being a "low cost carrier" believe it or not. They are going to price their segments exactly how the other carriers will price those segments. For example, if AA is charging X to fly from AUS-DFW-ONT then XJT will charge the same price to go from AUS-ONT direct. They are only flying city pairs that don't already have direct nonstop service. That is smart in my opinion. They are not looking to flood the marketplace with seats either. Also smart. I could go on but I just don't think this is XJT playing craps with their employees' livelihoods or their shareholders' equity. This is night and day different from FlyI which basically was suicide.

-Neal

 

[cybourg10]

theo, you do have valid points about the branded flying. When I first heard the plan I was just as sceptical as you. History and basic statistics show that you cannot make money flying 50 seat jets at low fare prices. 50 seat jets were very profitable when fuel prices were low, now that prices have sky-rocketed the 50 seaters are on their way out. The 145 burns about 2400 lbs/hr at fl370 while the 737ng burns about 4000-4500 lbs/hr (correct me if im wrong) at the same altitude plus you have an extra 100 seats on the 73, the basic numbers show that we cannot compete with SWA head to head unless pax are willing to pay extra to fly us which as we the the public usually goes with the cheapest.

The only way you can make $ on a 50 seater now is to have a CPA and fly "regional" routes and get pax to the hub where they can connect to international or more popular destinations and have a guaranteed profit for doing it. That is why CPA's work for both parties, the regional gets a guaranteed profit and the major gets pax connecting to international or famous vacation destinations (which is where their big $ come in). Most aviation experts say that we will see a drastic reduction in 50 seat jets in the next 5-10 years, they just arent profitable anymore. Thats why everyone wants the 70 and 90 seaters.

XJT says that we do not expect to make a profit on the branded flying for 3 years or so, we are using guaranteed CAL $ to help with start up costs, which is the hardest mountain to overcome for a new airline. Do you think that putting 44 a/c on this branded flying is the final solution that our management has come up with? They know everything you and I know about an airline's cost structure plus much more........I came over to XJT from an airline out of STL that is run by a goat f*cker and a bunch of moronic yes men.

The management here at XJT have some big balls and brains to do this, which is what you need to make it in this industry. The same was said about Herb & Co. back in the day.......Yes most new airlines do not make it in this industry, more fail than succeed. Yes, we cannot be a stand alone airline flying only 50 seaters for the next 20 years....you are correct on that. These 44 a/c is only the start to a bigger plan and until then we have CAL to thank for helping us start it up.

And these 10 a/c in LAX is only the start of a relationship with Delta......I have been employed by sh!tty companies in the past, this one is one of the best in the industry.......I look forward to helping it grow, dont worry about us we'll be just fine.