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DOJ stipulates Love Field gates auctioned only to LCC's

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SWA totally cornholed their rapid rewards customers not long ago. I don't think other airlines frequent flyers got hurt by bk as bad as SWA frequent flyers took it in the shorts. Be nice to get those customers back looking at a legacy again, cause when you accumulate the benefit they mean a hell of a lot more than they do on SWA. Wait til those SWA RR folks try to go international...
 
This from a United guy? Talk about frequent fliers getting ripped off.

You know all we did was switch from a segment based system to points right Flop? Do you ever do any research on any of this crap you post?

A ton of them are using their points to go to San Juan, and pretty soon we'll start taking them to the rest of the Caribbean and South America. Hawaii, Alaska and Canada will follow.

Free TV and Free Internet (for freq fliers) is a big hit. Early boarding options, another big hit. Plenty of new things coming.
 
Hey Red: I used to be a member in almost all these programs, and I have a lot of bizjet friends who still are. Trust me, your longtime customers are not happy. You screwed them over, AND RR are a lot harder to redeem now.
 
scoreboardII said:
But be sure to NOT mention we don't charge for bags, food, drinks, using a credit card, no change fees, etc, etc....

But lets compare:

Spirit flights from FLL to LAS 28 Feb rtn 8 Mar. Fares range $450-$650 RT

SWA same dates :$850-$1,100

But lets finish the story with Spirit:

Want to take one piece of luggage? $100 EACH WAY!!!!!

Your smart GL you'll only take a carry on, that will be $100 each way

You planned to golf right? $100 for that bag. each way

Need to change days? $115

Want your choice of seats? $150

Want to call Spirit and talk? $10

Drink? $10

Food? $10

So, your cheapest fare on Spirit, with one checked bag and carryon is $850, exactly what SWA gives, plus, free drinks food, change at will, etc.

This will always be SWA's advantage.

Spirit will always be able to find the feeble minded shoppers who don't think past the next mouse click.
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Spirit is cheaper. And no one pays $100 for a bag on Spirit. Face it, the legacies like Delta have you beat from the top and Spirit, JetBlue and Frontier and coming at you guys from the other end. You're in limbo.
 
It is really rich to hear a UniCal pilot telling SWA pilots that they are screwing their customers. Go fix your own barn there Flop. Oh I forgot, Herb passed the tesseract to GK and that is how they are able to manipulate the world.
 
Exactly Fly.

United just announced a 'new' change to their program(after the initial gutting) and Flop has the balls to come on here and even mention our change from segments to points? Completely clueless on his part.

Talk about customers being pissed off...

http://boardingarea.com/viewfromthe...frequent-flyer-award-prices-going-redeem-now/

From the author..

'I woke up this morning to an announcement of some really nasty changes to the United MileagePlus award chart.'


The effective date of these changes? Feb 1, 2014.
 
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ROSWELL41 said:
Spirit is cheaper. And no one pays $100 for a bag on Spirit. Face it, the legacies like Delta have you beat from the top and Spirit, JetBlue and Frontier and coming at you guys from the other end. You're in limbo.
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Really????

http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Spiri...-Airlines-Bag-fees-rip-off-Nationwide-1088878

That's one of two hundred complaints on just that website.

Here's a link to SWA BBB site, no complaints

http://www.bbb.org/dallas/business-reviews/airlines/southwest-airlines-company-in-dallas-tx-2352

Here's a link to Spirit BBB, 2318 complaints:

http://www.bbb.org/south-east-flori...rlines/spirit-airlines-in-miramar-fl-21000543


Total complaints for Dec 2013, SWA 37, Spirit 58. Let me do the math, 1/10th the size but has almost twice the complaints, so in other words, if you had the same number of SWA jets, your complaint numbers would be closer to 580 a month.

Limbo, all the way to the bank,
 
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Flopgut said:
They moved there of their own accord because Love was suppose to be closed. SWA staying was a loophole that only barely made the legal cut. And it did not "make more sense for your operation" Bubba, it was the only way you were going to stay in business. When other airlines wanted back into Love they were stopped (again, only by the thinnest of legal margins) and SWA was protected. And we see this happening again today, all over again. SWA being spared the harsh competition in not only Dallas, but Houston as well.
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This (bolded above) is where you once again go off into Flopgut crazy world.

No other airline was EVER stopped from going back to Love field while we were there, by Southwest or anyone else. Although after 1979 they had to abide by the same stupid WA limitations as we did. As I have pointed out to you before, and provided citations to show, other airlines came and went to/from Love of their own accord. Braniff came in to try to kill us, and when it didn't work, they left because they were losing money. American has come and left several times. Legend Airlines came, and American killed them, not us. Etc., etc.

Why do you keep making up this invisible conspiracy crap about "Southwest having airlines removed from Love," when everyone knows it isn't true? How about you linking some sort of document to back up your absurd claims. Show me how they "were stopped," and by whom. Show me who "protected" Southwest in the '70s when every aviation authority in Dallas hated us and tried to kill us. You can't, because no such event or document exists.

Until this new agreement, there was plenty of room for anyone who wanted to come and compete with us, and do exactly the same thing we did there. EXACTLY the same thing, if they wanted. The fact is, that nobody wanted to. However now, American Airlines and DFW had Love Field limited to 20 gates, so there's fewer gates to be had. You should be complaining to them about Love; they're the ones holding back your newest "grand Love Field plans," not Southwest.

Or just keep saying untrue, stupid stuff, and keep bitching. Your choice.

Bubba
 
SWA Bubba said:
Until this new agreement, there was plenty of room for anyone who wanted to come and compete with us, and do exactly the same thing we did there. EXACTLY the same thing, if they wanted. The fact is, that nobody wanted to.
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Total BS. It doesn't matter much how many gates there are when the DOJ comes right out and stipulates a legacy airline is not welcome at Love. There could be a 100 gates there, the DOJ is still throwing Delta out! Yeah, SWA has had a lot of legal battles. But somehow you've won them all. Can you imagine the DOJ throwing SWA off an airport? Never going to happen.

It's interesting that you keep challenging whether or not I can provide proof of my theory that legacy airlines were thrown off Love Field to protect SWA 40 years ago, when that's exactly what's happening right now!! Today!! How about you speak to that?
 
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Flopgut said:
Here you go Bubba:

http://airchive.com/blog/2013/10/18/dallas-love-field/

Have a nice evening cherry picking out of context quotes from it, but it's a fairly good account. The paragraph following the Muse Air picture speaks to other carriers desiring to use Love.
Click to expand...

It is a decent overview of the WA at Love Field and how it was designed to cripple or limit Southwest Airlines. But it doesn't really support your premise.

Perhaps you should do a little deeper research than just a nostalgic "look back" primarily concerning the WA and its history. It doesn't go into enough detail. The "other airlines" it refers to, fought to use Love field to run their networks, in contravention to WA limitations and/or other limiting factors. Do you really not see the difference? The fact is, that no airline was prohibited from using Love Field in the proscribed manor as Southwest did (i.e. following all the WA limitations). As I said, some did, and couldn't make their business model work there.

Bubba
 
Bubba: I've got first hand accounts from guys who were there. It's pre internet so there's a problem researching it. (You've obviously sensed that and it's why you're doubling down on me). I'm going to find it. Just like the info I had dispelling the SWA myth that there was zero rational against a second FIS in Houston. I got that, showed everybody, and I pbly should have taken Bake's bet on a boat.

While I'm doing that, you work on explaining how it's in the worlds best interest that Delta (or any other legacy that wants Love Field gates now) can not have them? You realize you're accusing me of being crazy for suggesting something happened 40 years ago, that you claim could not possibly have happened, even though it's happening right as we speak!? That's some grade A corndog kool aid drinking my friend.
 
Flopgut said:
Total BS. It doesn't matter much how many gates there are when the DOJ comes right out and stipulates a legacy airline is not welcome at Love. There could be a 100 gates there, the DOJ is still throwing Delta out! Yeah, SWA has had a lot of legal battles. But somehow you've won them all. Can you imagine the DOJ throwing SWA off an airport? Never going to happen.

It's interesting that you keep challenging whether or not I can provide proof of my theory that legacy airlines were thrown off Love Field to protect SWA 40 years ago, when that's exactly what's happening right now!! Today!! How about you speak to that?
Click to expand...

I speak to that by pointing out that nobody is being thrown off of Love Field now. American Airlines agreed to give up their gates there (that they weren't even using) as a condition to get the government to approve their merger with USAir. They didn't have to merge. They didn't have to agree to divest those particular things. They didn't have to agree to anything; they had an expedited court date to fight. Or, they could have picked other assets to divest themselves of to satisfy the government.

The actual fact is that American giving up sub-leased gates at Love Field is just like them giving up sub-leased slot pairs at LGA. It's an empty, face-saving gesture. How much of a burden is it for American to "give up" things they weren't even using in the first place? All it does is pads the list of things that they "gave up" so that the government could say that they got more concessions from the mega-merger than they really did.

Well, I suppose you could look at the side that Delta (who owned nothing there) might be forced out. But that's only because Delta didn't own the gates they were using, and its landlord got rid of the asset out from under them. But that's hardly Southwest's doing. They're more than welcome to bargain with the new owner (whoever that may be) to continue to rent those gates. On the other hand, maybe they should have bought them from American before all this went down; then they wouldn't be in this mess.

Bubba
 
scoreboardII said:
Really????

http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Spiri...-Airlines-Bag-fees-rip-off-Nationwide-1088878

That's one of two hundred complaints on just that website.

Here's a link to SWA BBB site, no complaints

http://www.bbb.org/dallas/business-reviews/airlines/southwest-airlines-company-in-dallas-tx-2352

Here's a link to Spirit BBB, 2318 complaints:

http://www.bbb.org/south-east-flori...rlines/spirit-airlines-in-miramar-fl-21000543


Total complaints for Dec 2013, SWA 37, Spirit 58. Let me do the math, 1/10th the size but has almost twice the complaints, so in other words, if you had the same number of SWA jets, your complaint numbers would be closer to 580 a month.

Limbo, all the way to the bank,
Click to expand...

All your free bags aren't helping your stock price and won't be helping your negotiations. You are in a no man's land between full service legacies with worldwide reach and ULCCs that can carry your passengers far cheaper than you can. And yes, Spirit is far cheaper than WN in a majority of cases. Bags included!
 
ROSWELL41 said:
All your free bags aren't helping your stock price and won't be helping your negotiations. You are in a no man's land between full service legacies with worldwide reach and ULCCs that can carry your passengers far cheaper than you can. And yes, Spirit is far cheaper than WN in a majority of cases. Bags included!
Click to expand...

You know our stock price has doubled over the last year right?
 
SWA Bubba said:
I speak to that by pointing out that nobody is being thrown off of Love Field now. American Airlines agreed to give up their gates there (that they weren't even using) as a condition to get the government to approve their merger with USAir. They didn't have to merge. They didn't have to agree to divest those particular things. They didn't have to agree to anything; they had an expedited court date to fight. Or, they could have picked other assets to divest themselves of to satisfy the government.



The actual fact is that American giving up sub-leased gates at Love Field is just like them giving up sub-leased slot pairs at LGA. It's an empty, face-saving gesture. How much of a burden is it for American to "give up" things they weren't even using in the first place? All it does is pads the list of things that they "gave up" so that the government could say that they got more concessions from the mega-merger than they really did.



Well, I suppose you could look at the side that Delta (who owned nothing there) might be forced out. But that's only because Delta didn't own the gates they were using, and its landlord got rid of the asset out from under them. But that's hardly Southwest's doing. They're more than welcome to bargain with the new owner (whoever that may be) to continue to rent those gates. On the other hand, maybe they should have bought them from American before all this went down; then they wouldn't be in this mess.



Bubba
Click to expand...


Perfect BS.

Facts are: Delta is there, they want to stay. Gates are being made available and Delta is being EXCLUDED by the govt.

I'm going to excuse myself now. You need to go ahead and start theorizing another BS answer to how the hell you guys end up owning these gates after all this, because that's probably what's going to happen. DOJ knows they've eliminated the airline that will most likely bid as much as you, so once again, the govt has put a nice slow, fat strike over the plate for you. Better also get set to help edit Wikipedia as they write about this so you can make sure SWA maintains the awe shucks schtick. Maybe even write another musical?
 
Flopgut said:
Here you go Bubba:

http://airchive.com/blog/2013/10/18/dallas-love-field/

Have a nice evening cherry picking out of context quotes from it, but it's a fairly good account. The paragraph following the Muse Air picture speaks to other carriers desiring to use Love.
Click to expand...

You're hilarious Flop! You post an article that you claim supports your harebrained theories when it actually refutes everything you claim as true.
 
Flopgut said:
Perfect BS.

Facts are: Delta is there, they want to stay. Gates are being made available and Delta is being EXCLUDED by the govt.
Click to expand...

Actually, the status quo is being preserved. Delta owned no gates before and will own no gates after the divestiture. If Delta had purchased the gates from American they would have been able to hold on to them. As it stands, Delta will have the exact same circumstance post divestiture, they will have the same ability to attempt a lease from the new owner of the gates.
 
ROSWELL41 said:
Pretty much every airline stock has been on the rise over the last 52 weeks. Your statement, while factual, means very little.
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Small point, a 13% ROIC this year with a projected over 15% next year, oh, SWA is quaking in their shoes.

Be careful about becoming a takeover target....
 
scoreboardII said:
Small point, a 13% ROIC this year with a projected over 15% next year, oh, SWA is quaking in their shoes.

Be careful about becoming a takeover target....
Click to expand...

I may be in the minority, but I think WN could try to takeover Spirit. If it's cheaper to purchase them vs put them under competitively, I have no doubt WN will do whatever is cheaper. Although, you guys will have your hands full for quite a while with FL.
 
ROSWELL41 said:
I may be in the minority, but I think WN could try to takeover Spirit. If it's cheaper to purchase them vs put them under competitively, I have no doubt WN will do whatever is cheaper. Although, you guys will have your hands full for quite a while with FL.
Click to expand...


Your on the right track . I am sure there is going to be another purchase . Question is. When and Who. ?
 
If you really care, most recently GK was asked about exactly this. He said that his focus now is on "organic growth." He talked about being excited to grow, especially internationally, in all of North America. Industry analysts believe that, and are bullish on Southwest growth. You guys can talk anonymously on a pilot bitch board all you want about another acquisition, but all signs point to actual growth--you know, hiring new guys off the street and buying more planes. That's good for all of us, FAT and OSW alike.

Or if you just want to bitch about worst case and how bad your life is, then don't let me interrupt you. Carry on.

Bubba
 
Bubba, I would LUV to see organic growth, but just because GK says something doesn't mean I should believe it. During section 6 negotiations I'd be spouting off "Growth! Growth! Growth!" if I was in his position as well.

Worst case scenarios, especially plausible ones, are talked about ad nauseam on here, but what do you expect? Many fear the worst, including me, because we're still looking for the silver lining from the last deal. That goes for SWA and AT pilots alike.
 
Flopgut said:
SWA totally cornholed their rapid rewards customers not long ago. I don't think other airlines frequent flyers got hurt by bk as bad as SWA frequent flyers took it in the shorts. Be nice to get those customers back looking at a legacy again, cause when you accumulate the benefit they mean a hell of a lot more than they do on SWA. Wait til those SWA RR folks try to go international...
Click to expand...


Hey Flop, you take notice of Delta's move today? Just like Southwest....moving to a points system instead of a mileage system.

You wanna talk about conrholed....it's just a matter of time before Smisek figures out the same deal, then you can come back on here and tell us about how good you crap program is...

Of course Smisek isn't the smartest guy so it could take him awhile. He sure knows how to paint planes though. The rest? No so much.
 

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