DOJ stipulates Love Field gates auctioned only to LCC's

[SWA Bubba]

Except that SWA operates at LAX, PHX, PHL, BOS, DCA (upcoming),ATL, MIA, MSP, DTW and CLT so operating at a fortress hub doesn't seem to be intolerable.

So does SWA want to be protected from competition at Love, or given the freedom to not be restricted to Love?

That's funny.

The entire 35+ year existence of the Wright Amendment was to protect other airlines (most notably American Airlines) from competition from Southwest. Southwest has never shied away from direct competition--at Love Field or anywhere else. Until this "compromise agreement," other airlines have always been free to compete with us at Love. Always. Many have tried, some multiple times. They always had free rein to do the same things that Southwest did at Love Field (of course, we were all hobbled by American Airlines political stooge, Rep Jim Wright). They came, tried to compete with us on exactly equal terms, and for the most part, left of their own volition. Until the limiting compromise, there were plenty of open, unused gates; the terminal had 32 gates, with Southwest using 16, American owning two and subleasing them, and I believe Continental with another two. That left 12 more open and available gates, that any other airline was free to use, but none wanted to.

The compromise agreement stipulated a maximum of 20 gates (at American and DFW's insistence, not Southwest's), of which 16 were the ones that we were using. Southwest wanted to keep all the available gates, and then you guys could come and go as you please, just as you did before. So if you want to bitch at somebody for keeping you from competing at Love, then maybe you should bitch at American Airlines or DFW airport, or the city of Ft Worth. They're the one's who insisted on these limitations in the agreement, over Southwest's objections. Do you really think that Southwest is afraid of competition like Flopgut is?

Bubba

 

[SWA Bubba]

Except that SWA operates at LAX, PHX, PHL, BOS, DCA (upcoming),ATL, MIA, MSP, DTW and CLT so operating at a fortress hub doesn't seem to be intolerable.

So does SWA want to be protected from competition at Love, or given the freedom to not be restricted to Love?

As far as your other point goes, those other airports that are hubs aren't as anywhere near as bad as DFW (2700 daily AA and AE departures alone). LAX isn't really a hub; a zillion airlines fly there from all over, and traffic moves quickly and consistently. BOS, DCA, MSP and CLT are much smaller as far as hubs with enormous banks of departures, and don't seem to offer the same issues. We don't fly to MIA, and DTW is much better than it used to be. O&E traffic at both DTW and CLT is relatively small, so we don't have many flights there; and we try to schedule our few flights there between the banks. That wouldn't be possible at DFW, due to the sheer size of American's operation, and our O&E traffic in Dallas is substantially higher than the other cities that airlines picked as their hubs. Why do you think other airlines picked cities like Detroit, Charlotte, Cleveland, etc. as places to put their big hubs?

I'll give you ATL. That airport can be a pain in the ass, and we take delays sometimes waiting. I suspect the only reason we fly there (aside from AirTran's operation) is that there was too much money to be made there, and there's not another suitable airport to use. Not the case in Dallas or Chicago, etc. But the big point is, why do you care what airport we fly in and out of? You need enormous airports (regardless of the size of the city) to support your fortress hub concept; we don't. Why don't you fly to the airports that you want, and stop bitching about Southwest's choice of airports? You work your business model, and we'll work ours. Are you really going to resort to making the "Flopgut argument"?

Bubba

 

[General Lee]

You realize you're dealing with a child there, right?
Ha! Never happen!

Again, $5 is a lot to the child Lee. It's probably 2 or 3 tricks at an ATL airport restroom!

You got that right!:laugh:

Respect is something earned! With 19000+ posts, and nothing to offer but "mom insults," it'll never happen! Remember, you're dealing with some booger picking d0uche bag sitting in his parents basement, who gets all his info from blowing some male f/a based in ATL!

And this guy claims to be an INTL pilot at DL, and can't remember basic procedures at two of the most widely used European airports DL goes to. Scoot is a total loser.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Flopgut]

Years ago, when DFW first opened, Braniff went back over to DAL to match SWA's operation. SWA could not compete and had them removed from the airport. That is what started the Wright Amendment. The WA was always about keeping SWA protected. It's why it was continuously adjusted thru the years (to match what SWA was ready to do) For you SWA guys that doubt that happened, take a good look at what's going on today. The DOJ [the government] is *prohibiting* non LCC airlines from bidding on DAL gates. Think about that for a moment. Who's really being kept out of the bidding here? UAL AMR & DAL. Or, basically, the only airlines that could really mount serious competition there.

This really ought to be a wake up call. This is not the free market and this is not capitalism.

 

[waveflyer]

Bubba
You're pinpointing the nature of the modern day airline pilot
Staunch conservative free market socialists

 

[waveflyer]

Years ago, when DFW first opened, Braniff went back over to DAL to match SWA's operation. SWA could not compete and had them removed from the airport.
This really ought to be a wake up call. This is not the free market and this is not capitalism.

Complete with whatever revisionist history they need to justify their views^^^

Of this flop I agree- airlines are oligopolistic in nature and therefore always intersect with politics.

It's naive of you to think legacies haven't helped united along and so now you're what? Complaining that southwest is winning political battles for once?

C'mon man

 

[waveflyer]

Scoot
He may or may not be a delta pilot- but GL's been posting too long to be anything more than an adult who's as immature as his language suggests-
Unless it's a club of 10 year olds who pass the baton to the next generation year over year...

 

[DUBLINFLYER]

Lets resurrect Hooters Air and have them bid for the DAL gates and then the General can go fly for them and he will be able to land at DAL (this must be his ultimate dream)

 

[Flopgut]

Complete with whatever revisionist history they need to justify their views^^^



Of this flop I agree- airlines are oligopolistic in nature and therefore always intersect with politics.



It's naive of you to think legacies haven't helped united along and so now you're what? Complaining that southwest is winning political battles for once?



C'mon man

What does any of that mean?! You shutting down again like you do when you've got no answers? Earlier you wanted to discuss capitalism. Well, let's discuss how it relates to the DOJ excluding legacy bids on dal gates. This is post WA, there should be no DOJ input on this airport. Does this fit in your version of capitalism?

 

[waveflyer]

What does any of that mean?! You shutting down again like you do when you've got no answers? Earlier you wanted to discuss capitalism. Well, let's discuss how it relates to the DOJ excluding legacy bids on dal gates. This is post WA, there should be no DOJ input on this airport. Does this fit in your version of capitalism?

Bubba already explained that one so either keep up or don't
But that doesn't make it worth my time to lay it out for you... Again

 

[slaquer5]

Years ago, when DFW first opened, Braniff went back over to DAL to match SWA's operation. SWA could not compete and had them removed from the airport. That is what started the Wright Amendment. The WA was always about keeping SWA protected. It's why it was continuously adjusted thru the years (to match what SWA was ready to do) For you SWA guys that doubt that happened, take a good look at what's going on today. The DOJ [the government] is *prohibiting* non LCC airlines from bidding on DAL gates. Think about that for a moment. Who's really being kept out of the bidding here? UAL AMR & DAL. Or, basically, the only airlines that could really mount serious competition there.

This really ought to be a wake up call. This is not the free market and this is not capitalism.

I have to ask



Do you actually believe what you post ?

 

[HowardBorden]

SWA could not compete and had them removed from the airport.

How exactly did they accomplish that?

 

[Freebrd]

Lets resurrect Hooters Air and have them bid for the DAL gates and then the General can go fly for them and he will be able to land at DAL (this must be his ultimate dream)

Nah she wants to do LBB!

 

[SWA Bubba]

Years ago, when DFW first opened, Braniff went back over to DAL to match SWA's operation. SWA could not compete and had them removed from the airport. That is what started the Wright Amendment. The WA was always about keeping SWA protected. It's why it was continuously adjusted thru the years (to match what SWA was ready to do) For you SWA guys that doubt that happened, take a good look at what's going on today. The DOJ [the government] is *prohibiting* non LCC airlines from bidding on DAL gates. Think about that for a moment. Who's really being kept out of the bidding here? UAL AMR & DAL. Or, basically, the only airlines that could really mount serious competition there.

This really ought to be a wake up call. This is not the free market and this is not capitalism.

Dude, you must have serious brain issues if you really believe any of this.

Braniff was one of the airlines found guilty in criminal court (along with Continental and Texas International) for their illegal efforts to kill Southwest. They "competed" with us however they wanted, and even in Dallas. You should really look up the "$13 fare war":

http://www.texasmonthly.com/story/great-airline-war/page/0/8

Braniff undercut our fares (charging only $13 from DAL-HOU) in order to "outlast" Southwest and kill them, despite losing money every time one of their planes took off on a competitive flight. Southwest "won" that war by giving away liquor with every full fare ticket ($26), and kept all the business travelers on expense accounts. Braniff eventually discontinued that competition, since they were losing so much money. Nobody at Southwest "had them removed" from Love Field. Where the hell do you get this crap? Tell me Flop, how exactly do you claim we had the power to do that, seeing as how at the time, every other player (the other airlines, both cities, and both airports) pretty much hated us?

Anyway, this all happened in 1973, and had not the first friggin' thing to do with the Wright Amendment. Another ridiculous assertion on your part. Southwest was an intrastate Texas carrier until the Airline Deregulation Act of 1978, and we announced service to other states for 1979. Again the other airlines file frivolous lawsuits to stop us, and again, they were shut out in court for lack of merit. So Rep Jim Wright from Ft Worth (the Speaker of the House at the time) snuck in the Wright Amendment, which changed the law specifically to thwart Southwest, and prevent American (and the other DFW carriers) from having to compete with Southwest on more interstate routes from Dallas. It was amended several times over the years by congressmen wanting Southwest to be able to serve their cites from Dallas.

You really ought to read some actual history before you spout off stupid crap. You're just making yourself look bad.

Bubba

 

[SWA Bubba]

Years ago, when DFW first opened, Braniff went back over to DAL to match SWA's operation. SWA could not compete and had them removed from the airport. That is what started the Wright Amendment. The WA was always about keeping SWA protected. It's why it was continuously adjusted thru the years (to match what SWA was ready to do) For you SWA guys that doubt that happened, take a good look at what's going on today. The DOJ [the government] is *prohibiting* non LCC airlines from bidding on DAL gates. Think about that for a moment. Who's really being kept out of the bidding here? UAL AMR & DAL. Or, basically, the only airlines that could really mount serious competition there.

This really ought to be a wake up call. This is not the free market and this is not capitalism.

By the way, since you're one of those delusional souls who keeps insisting against logic, that the Wright Amendment was "about keeping SWA protected," perhaps you could explain that particular tidbit to the rest of us. How exactly was a law preventing us from doing what we wanted to do, "protecting" us? How exactly was a law, specifically preventing us from doing what we had gone to court to win the right to do, "protecting" us? Why would Rep Wright, representing the DFW district, and recipient of millions of dollars in contributions from American, Braniff, etc. even want to "protect" an airline that competed with his constituents? Do you not even realize how dumb making this claim sounds?

I've heard people make this claim several times over the years (well, mostly from you, Flop), but nobody has been able to actually show that it's anything other that a bunch of self-serving crapola. Perhaps you'd like to take a shot at it.

Bubba