DOJ stipulates Love Field gates auctioned only to LCC's

[Flopgut]

So Love should only have LCCs and DFW should only have legacies? That's F'ed up Howie, but convenient for SWA.

The DOJ isn't in GK's pocket, but the government very much wants de-regulation to be a lasting success. In order to do that, SWA has got to continue to do well. Alfred Khan said SWA was the proof of the policy.

 

[HowardBorden]

So Love should only have LCCs and DFW should only have legacies? That's F'ed up Howie, but convenient for SWA.

The DOJ isn't in GK's pocket, but the government very much wants de-regulation to be a lasting success. In order to do that, SWA has got to continue to do well. Alfred Khan said SWA was the proof of the policy.

Again, read for comprehension. Not only the government wants deregulation to succeed, SO DOES THE AIRLINE INDUSTRY! My God man deregulation has been around for more than 3 1/2 decades, can you honestly believe this DOJ decision was made on the basis of making sure deregulation succeeds?

Whether you or I think thinks the decision is F'ed up or not, it has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not SWA prospers or fails. That is where you go fatally off the track. Your inability to separate how any of these decisions are made from your assertion that they are all made so SWA can prosper and others be made to fail is your downfall.

Alfred Khan said this:

"And I remember I was asked to predict, "Well, what do you think the industry will look like if you get out of the way?" And I said, "If I knew what was the most efficient configuration of routes in the airline system, then I could continue to regulate. But since I can't tell you whether it's going to be a Delta kind of operation or it's going to be more like the Eastern shuttle, which is just back and forth, or Southwest Airlines, which was then just back and forth between Houston and Dallas, it doesn't make sense to leave it to an ignorant person like me to tell airlines how they can best configure their routes." And of course we got out of the way, and there was radical transformation in the industry, which told us what was the more efficient way to do it.

So once we deregulated, even though it unleashed competition and it proved to be very, very painful to the airlines, especially in the early 1990s when they lost billions of dollars - the fact is that none of them wanted to go back to the protectionist days."

 

[Flopgut]

Deregulation has been around a long time, in fact long enough that maybe we can stop using it exclusively to tear the nuts off legacy airlines. Why not see how well Delta can do at Love Field? Especially since swa has 95% of it. The unfortunate fact is the govt is used to deregulation only going in SWA's favor.

I'm not saying we go back to regulation, I'm suggesting SWA was never really de regulated like other airlines. It masked itself as the epitome of what the end result was suppose to be. When in reality things like the Love Field debacle were schemes to prop it up. Keep in mind: if SWA had not been allowed to stay at Love, they would not be in business. Fast forward to today and SWA has monopoly control of two very strategic Texas airports and is being allowed to construct it's own FIS. It's become the epitome of what it stood against 40+ years ago.

If SWA gets these gates, are you ready to admit there is a double standard? Cause that's probably going to happen.

 

[hockeypilot44]

Only fair, after having that Wright amendment rammed down their throat for so many years.

What are you talking about? Without the Wright amendment, no airline would have moved to DFW. Southwest could have moved just like everyone else. Now that the Wright amendment is going away, it is unfair to the other airlines as they can't move back to LUV because there are no gates.

 

[scoreboardII]

So Love should only have LCCs and DFW should only have legacies? That's F'ed up Howie, but convenient for SWA.

The DOJ isn't in GK's pocket, but the government very much wants de-regulation to be a lasting success. In order to do that, SWA has got to continue to do well. Alfred Khan said SWA was the proof of the policy.

How the heck is ONLY allowing lower cost airlines like Spirit into LUV going to be better for SWA, please enlighten us.

 

[SWA Bubba]

What are you talking about? Without the Wright amendment, no airline would have moved to DFW. Southwest could have moved just like everyone else. Now that the Wright amendment is going away, it is unfair to the other airlines as they can't move back to LUV because there are no gates.

You need a history lesson.

DFW opened, and all the airlines (except Southwest) moved there by 1974. They all agreed to move there of their own accord, because the facilities were to be bigger and better, and they wanted to take avail. Southwest stayed at Love because it made sense for our operation.

The Wright Amendment didn't come along until 1979, and as a direct result of Southwest announcing interstate service after The Airline Deregulation Act of 1978 made it legal for them to do so. The WA had nothing to do with DFW and the other airlines moving there; it happened after that fact. It was a change in the law to keep Southwest from competing with the established carriers on longer routes from Dallas.

Good God; did you go to the Flopgut School of History?

Bubba

P.S. By the way, the reason there are no more gates at Love, is because American Airlines wanted it that way. Not Southwest. Complain to them, and get them to reverse their position on limiting love Field.

 

[Flopgut]

DFW opened, and all the airlines (except Southwest) moved there by 1974. They all agreed to move there of their own accord, because the facilities were to be bigger and better, and they wanted to take avail. Southwest stayed at Love because it made sense for our operation.

They moved there of their own accord because Love was suppose to be closed. SWA staying was a loophole that only barely made the legal cut. And it did not "make more sense for your operation" Bubba, it was the only way you were going to stay in business. When other airlines wanted back into Love they were stopped (again, only by the thinnest of legal margins) and SWA was protected. And we see this happening again today, all over again. SWA being spared the harsh competition in not only Dallas, but Houston as well.

 

[General Lee]

The ironic part Flop is that SWA has been known as the "low cost darling", yet today they have legacy costs due to their employees and longevity. Their fares aren't always the lowest either. Yet they still get slots at DCA and can try to keep others out of Love Field. Plus, they aren't the low cost leader anymore, which Spirit and eventually Frontier will be. Those pizzas were a great investment I guess....


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Freebrd]

Wow now that was an absolutely brilliant post Jenny.

 

[scoreboardII]

The ironic part Flop is that SWA has been known as the "low cost darling", yet today they have legacy costs due to their employees and longevity. Their fares aren't always the lowest either. Yet they still get slots at DCA and can try to keep others out of Love Field. Plus, they aren't the low cost leader anymore, which Spirit and eventually Frontier will be. Those pizzas were a great investment I guess....


Bye Bye---General Lee

But be sure to NOT mention we don't charge for bags, food, drinks, using a credit card, no change fees, etc, etc....

But lets compare:

Spirit flights from FLL to LAS 28 Feb rtn 8 Mar. Fares range $450-$650 RT

SWA same dates :$850-$1,100

But lets finish the story with Spirit:

Want to take one piece of luggage? $100 EACH WAY!!!!!

Your smart GL you'll only take a carry on, that will be $100 each way

You planned to golf right? $100 for that bag. each way

Need to change days? $115

Want your choice of seats? $150

Want to call Spirit and talk? $10

Drink? $10

Food? $10

So, your cheapest fare on Spirit, with one checked bag and carryon is $850, exactly what SWA gives, plus, free drinks food, change at will, etc.

This will always be SWA's advantage.

Spirit will always be able to find the feeble minded shoppers who don't think past the next mouse click.

 

[HowardBorden]

The ironic part Flop is that SWA has been known as the "low cost darling", yet today they have legacy costs due to their employees and longevity.

Have you ever heard of CASM? Look it up and talk to me about Southwest having legacy costs.

 

[Flopgut]

SWA totally cornholed their rapid rewards customers not long ago. I don't think other airlines frequent flyers got hurt by bk as bad as SWA frequent flyers took it in the shorts. Be nice to get those customers back looking at a legacy again, cause when you accumulate the benefit they mean a hell of a lot more than they do on SWA. Wait til those SWA RR folks try to go international...

 

[redflyer65]

This from a United guy? Talk about frequent fliers getting ripped off.

You know all we did was switch from a segment based system to points right Flop? Do you ever do any research on any of this crap you post?

A ton of them are using their points to go to San Juan, and pretty soon we'll start taking them to the rest of the Caribbean and South America. Hawaii, Alaska and Canada will follow.

Free TV and Free Internet (for freq fliers) is a big hit. Early boarding options, another big hit. Plenty of new things coming.

 

[Flopgut]

Hey Red: I used to be a member in almost all these programs, and I have a lot of bizjet friends who still are. Trust me, your longtime customers are not happy. You screwed them over, AND RR are a lot harder to redeem now.

 

[ROSWELL41]

But be sure to NOT mention we don't charge for bags, food, drinks, using a credit card, no change fees, etc, etc....

But lets compare:

Spirit flights from FLL to LAS 28 Feb rtn 8 Mar. Fares range $450-$650 RT

SWA same dates :$850-$1,100

But lets finish the story with Spirit:

Want to take one piece of luggage? $100 EACH WAY!!!!!

Your smart GL you'll only take a carry on, that will be $100 each way

You planned to golf right? $100 for that bag. each way

Need to change days? $115

Want your choice of seats? $150

Want to call Spirit and talk? $10

Drink? $10

Food? $10

So, your cheapest fare on Spirit, with one checked bag and carryon is $850, exactly what SWA gives, plus, free drinks food, change at will, etc.

This will always be SWA's advantage.

Spirit will always be able to find the feeble minded shoppers who don't think past the next mouse click.

Spirit is cheaper. And no one pays $100 for a bag on Spirit. Face it, the legacies like Delta have you beat from the top and Spirit, JetBlue and Frontier and coming at you guys from the other end. You're in limbo.

 

[FlyinGuy]

It is really rich to hear a UniCal pilot telling SWA pilots that they are screwing their customers. Go fix your own barn there Flop. Oh I forgot, Herb passed the tesseract to GK and that is how they are able to manipulate the world.

 

[redflyer65]

Exactly Fly.

United just announced a 'new' change to their program(after the initial gutting) and Flop has the balls to come on here and even mention our change from segments to points? Completely clueless on his part.

Talk about customers being pissed off...

http://boardingarea.com/viewfromthe...frequent-flyer-award-prices-going-redeem-now/

From the author..

'I woke up this morning to an announcement of some really nasty changes to the United MileagePlus award chart.'


The effective date of these changes? Feb 1, 2014.

 

[scoreboardII]

Spirit is cheaper. And no one pays $100 for a bag on Spirit. Face it, the legacies like Delta have you beat from the top and Spirit, JetBlue and Frontier and coming at you guys from the other end. You're in limbo.

Really????

http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/Spiri...-Airlines-Bag-fees-rip-off-Nationwide-1088878

That's one of two hundred complaints on just that website.

Here's a link to SWA BBB site, no complaints

http://www.bbb.org/dallas/business-reviews/airlines/southwest-airlines-company-in-dallas-tx-2352

Here's a link to Spirit BBB, 2318 complaints:

http://www.bbb.org/south-east-flori...rlines/spirit-airlines-in-miramar-fl-21000543


Total complaints for Dec 2013, SWA 37, Spirit 58. Let me do the math, 1/10th the size but has almost twice the complaints, so in other words, if you had the same number of SWA jets, your complaint numbers would be closer to 580 a month.

Limbo, all the way to the bank,

 

[SWA Bubba]

They moved there of their own accord because Love was suppose to be closed. SWA staying was a loophole that only barely made the legal cut. And it did not "make more sense for your operation" Bubba, it was the only way you were going to stay in business. When other airlines wanted back into Love they were stopped (again, only by the thinnest of legal margins) and SWA was protected. And we see this happening again today, all over again. SWA being spared the harsh competition in not only Dallas, but Houston as well.

This (bolded above) is where you once again go off into Flopgut crazy world.

No other airline was EVER stopped from going back to Love field while we were there, by Southwest or anyone else. Although after 1979 they had to abide by the same stupid WA limitations as we did. As I have pointed out to you before, and provided citations to show, other airlines came and went to/from Love of their own accord. Braniff came in to try to kill us, and when it didn't work, they left because they were losing money. American has come and left several times. Legend Airlines came, and American killed them, not us. Etc., etc.

Why do you keep making up this invisible conspiracy crap about "Southwest having airlines removed from Love," when everyone knows it isn't true? How about you linking some sort of document to back up your absurd claims. Show me how they "were stopped," and by whom. Show me who "protected" Southwest in the '70s when every aviation authority in Dallas hated us and tried to kill us. You can't, because no such event or document exists.

Until this new agreement, there was plenty of room for anyone who wanted to come and compete with us, and do exactly the same thing we did there. EXACTLY the same thing, if they wanted. The fact is, that nobody wanted to. However now, American Airlines and DFW had Love Field limited to 20 gates, so there's fewer gates to be had. You should be complaining to them about Love; they're the ones holding back your newest "grand Love Field plans," not Southwest.

Or just keep saying untrue, stupid stuff, and keep bitching. Your choice.

Bubba

 

[Flopgut]

Here you go Bubba:

http://airchive.com/blog/2013/10/18/dallas-love-field/

Have a nice evening cherry picking out of context quotes from it, but it's a fairly good account. The paragraph following the Muse Air picture speaks to other carriers desiring to use Love.