DL/NWA predictions.....

[FmrFreightDog]

I don't think anyone wants a blood bath, that's why we worked so hard to come up with a transaction framework agreement that would have included all of us. That agreement died when we couldn't resolve the SLI issue amicably.

Plan "b" is to get the bennies we can get from our management for the DAL pilots with the leverage our contract provides.

I suggest the NWA pilots do the same with their management.

Really, because I see a lot of insinuation and veiled threats from you guys that DALPA is complicit in a management scheme to accelerate DC-9 retirements. Why would you guys want to do this? Perhaps it is your feeling that if you can help management down the path of retiring DC-9s and furloughing NWA pilots then an arbitrated SLI might... just might... work out a little more in your favor?

Case in point, somebody just said that the "crappy DC-9s" are needed to carry pax for the pacific feed, and you more or less said, "we'll see about that".

So.... honest question... If the opportunity arises for management to make an end run around NWA's Section 1, park more planes than would have previously been allowed, and furlough NWA pilots, will DALPA and Delta pilots be willing to let that stand or possibly help it along on the off chance that it could prove beneficial to you in the future?

We are obviously not going to agree on what got us to this point. What I want to know is, now that we are at this point, would you be willing to exploit an opportunity to advance your career at the expense of mine?

 

[ultrarunner]

How do you think the TPG or whatever it is that bought Midwest will fit into this whole game?

NWA will have to divest because of the scope issue. So MidEx will cease to exist. Skywest is reasonably ramped up and can provide whatever feed NWA sees fit while it all shakes out.

I would agree with a previous poster to expect up to 1000 layoffs between the two groups.

 

[3ds]

We are obviously not going to agree on what got us to this point. What I want to know is, now that we are at this point, would you be willing to exploit an opportunity to advance your career at the expense of mine?

A lot of Jr DAL guys saw NWA trying to do just that. Now the shoe is on the other foot.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

A lot of Jr DAL guys saw NWA trying to do just that. Now the shoe is on the other foot.

Still didn't answer my question.

 

[PuffDriver]

Still didn't answer my question.

Sure he did. You guys made your seniority grab with your paid for -9s, your seniority, your great balance sheet, your superior intelligence, etc.

Now what happens, happens. We hope it can be resolved amicably, but if not so be it. You had your chance, and held out for your usual-arbitration. You'll get it, eventually. In the meantime, you get exactly what you wanted: your own operation, your attrition, and your great balance sheet.

 

[3ds]

You go first.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

Sure he did. You guys made your seniority grab with your paid for -9s, your seniority, your great balance sheet, your superior intelligence, etc.

Now what happens, happens. We hope it can be resolved amicably, but if not so be it. You had your chance, and held out for your usual-arbitration. You'll get it, eventually. In the meantime, you get exactly what you wanted: your own operation, your attrition, and your great balance sheet.

No. He didn't. My question was, "What I want to know is, now that we are at this point, would you be willing to exploit an opportunity to advance your career at the expense of mine?" It's a simple question... yes or no... and I'm still waiting for an answer. All I've gotten so far is equivocation.

 

[3ds]

Still didn't answer my question.

Junior or not, no DAL --or-- NWA guy wants to exploit the other pilot group for his own benefit. Hold out as long as you can so that OTHER PARTIES sweeten the deal for us, but don't do it at the expense of each another. That's a zero-sum game that unfortunately produces 2 losers: the DAL guys may get a raise (with possible furloughs) while the NWA guys scuttle the deal in the coming years, so who really benefits? We pilots have to live with the consequences (esp the young guys) long after the perks have come and gone. Both sides can grandstand for their constituents as long as the clock keeps ticking, but when it stops, they need to work it out.

Everyone sees the mess at AWA and for the long term good of us all, we want to avoid it!

 

[General Lee]

I really have a hard time believing the NWA guys would have walked away from such a sweet deal...IF it was one...

UNLESS a committee Chair was mad at NWA for his own screwjob at NWA during the Republic acquisition. He may have wanted to make up for his previous loss. Looking for a homerun, he really swung and missed, for all of you it seems.

We did lose 2000 senior guys who went for their pension pre-BK, but we also parked a lot of planes at that same time. (MD11s, 737-300s, 737-200s, 767-200s) We didn't gain that much when they left. This is something that hasn't happened to you, yet.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FmrFreightDog]

You go first.

No. I will not support NWALPA jumping in bed with NWA management to hatch a plan to accelerate retirement of MD-88s so we may be able to achieve a more favorable SLI. From our position, it appears that your leadership is doing exactly that. Now... will you support it?

 

[General Lee]

This is a match made in heaven.

Congrats on the age 65 win. I bet your FOs hate you. Have fun with the Airtran guys when you merge with them, and it won't be a staple job thanks to the Bond Ammendment.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Fine!!! Then your pilots should not benefit when the 787 finally shows up. It works both ways, General. You can't pick and choose seniority numbers based upon aircraft retirements and not acquisitions.

But if you really want, we will use your rationale and employ this, "ONLY NWA pilots fly the B787!!" Works for me!!!

Thank gawd for all of your upcoming retirements you guys continually brag about. We all "know" they will all bail out at exactly age 60. That will help when you start dumping the DC9s.

And the 787 is a mythical bird right now. Noone has ever seen one fly. We are talking about planes on the property. We also have Space Shuttles on order too.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

No. I will not support NWALPA jumping in bed with NWA management to hatch a plan to accelerate retirement of MD-88s so we may be able to achieve a more favorable SLI. From our position, it appears that your leadership is doing exactly that. Now... will you support it?

It's just not gonna happen. Remember, we have those MD88s on lease. Your DC9s are all owned, right? Then they can be dumped without penalty. The MD88s are also more modern, and can make more money thanks to more seats and modern FMS equipment.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FDJ2]

Really, because I see a lot of insinuation and veiled threats from you guys that DALPA is complicit in a management scheme to accelerate DC-9 retirements.

If the DC-9 is a viable aircraft I'm sure it will fly another 35 years. Do you really think that management will retire an aircraft because we say so?

Case in point, somebody just said that the "crappy DC-9s" are needed to carry pax for the pacific feed, and you more or less said, "we'll see about that".

That's true. We will, if they are retired it will be because they are not the best available airframe for the job, not because we say they aren't, but because management might determine that they aren't. I don't see too many 9s flying around anymore and NWA has already started parking them by the dozens, so it is not too far fetched to conclude that they aren't the best available airframe for the job.

So.... honest question... If the opportunity arises for management to make an end run around NWA's Section 1, park more planes than would have previously been allowed, and furlough NWA pilots, will DALPA and Delta pilots be willing to let that stand or possibly help it along on the off chance that it could prove beneficial to you in the future?

There can be no end run around your scope. Your scope is what it is. Either it protects your interests or it doesn't. It's your contract, you negotiated it, defend it. We'll defend our contract and protect our interests as I'm sure you will yours.

We are obviously not going to agree on what got us to this point. What I want to know is, now that we are at this point, would you be willing to exploit an opportunity to advance your career at the expense of mine?

No. We honor your contract and your rights under your contract as I am sure you honor ours. Your career is tied to your contract with NWA and mine is tied to my contract with DAL. We are each entitled to negotiate with our employer and negotiate the best contract we can.

 

[ThisistheDream]

one big point that gets over looked is at 110 dollars a barrel or even higher there wont be any career expectations for any pilots at DAL NWA CAL AA etc.. if oil continues to increase there might not be a DAL NWA CAL UAL in the future!!! WE always say NO it cant happen we have this and this much money and this creditor that will save us blah blah blah. The reality is that if oil continues to go up and up there will be some serious problems and even shutdowns that could reach the big legacies. By mergering, the career expectations for the pilots at the two airlines will greatly improve.