DL/NWA predictions.....

[Jim Smyth]

This is a match made in heaven.

 

[IXLR8]

NWA guys knew what types of planes they have at their airline, a bunch of 1960's built clunkers that could be parked with high gas. If they come over to Delta, that isn't the Delta pilots' fault---they never interviewed for DC9 FO or 747FE. Our pilots should not take a hit thanks to your old planes.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Why do you constantly rip the NWA guys for the type of equipment they fly?..is this their fault?..it's the company they were hired by that gets the equipment...but you choose to constantly throw out these barbs at them..what do you really expect to gain by this?...yes, you are getting 777's...great...NWA is getting the 787, we all know what is happening with that a/c...NWA pilots fault?..NO..but you continue the broken record that they may get to fly it with the space shuttle, or some idiotic remark like that. Your demeaning attitude toward a fellow group of pilots is very disturbing. Relax and see what plays out.

 

[JOPILOT]

Even if DAL/NWA was to retire every DC9 in the next year, it would be close to a wash on pilots with the 777's, 73's,and future 787's on the way. It could create a shortage of pilots rather than a surplus almost immediately... Everyone needs to chill and wait and see what has been agreed upon, It might not be as bad as you think if it strengthens the company as much as expected.

 

[ugasucks]

Why should I be put on the street for your old DC-9s, please tell me someone? If my company had old 60's era planes and was going to get rid of them I would not like it but I could understand why I wouldn't have a job, but we don't here at Delta. People came to Delta knowing they could get the 76ER, where as people went to NW knowing they would get the DC-9 or 747so, there is a difference.

 

[johnsonrod]

I really have a hard time believing the NWA guys would have walked away from such a sweet deal...IF it was one...

Here's the deal as I see it: the NWA guys had unrealistic viewpoints about "career expectations." Sure, during the latter 1990s, most airline careers were attractive - big pensions, 747-400 PIC slots with a growing fleet of widebodies, etc. Well, three things happened that have impacted career expectations for all pilots:

• 9-11
• Age 65
• $110 oil

These three things have ruined many pilots' career expectations. That's the big point. If NWA guys were expecting latter 1990s conditions going forward then they are sadly mistaken. $110+ oil alone will probably lead to fleet reductions and potential furloughs at a bunch of majors. IMHO, the NWA pilots should have adjusted their "high-flying" career expectations to meet reality (the three things mentioned above) and taken the wage, equity and QOL improvements offered earlier.

I wanted to be an astronaut years ago and that ain't happening either... Adjust your expectations to meet reality and return to the bargaining table while you still have some time... The junior NWA pilots must be pi$$ed off - I know I would be with Grandpa A330 pilot negotiating for my future with blinders on.

 

[FDJ2]

No. You don't. On the contrary, I imagine you're giddy at the prospect of the bloodbath you *think* is about to hit NWA.

I don't think anyone wants a blood bath, that's why we worked so hard to come up with a transaction framework agreement that would have included all of us. That agreement died when we couldn't resolve the SLI issue amicably.

Plan "b" is to get the bennies we can get from our management for the DAL pilots with the leverage our contract provides.

I suggest the NWA pilots do the same with their management.

 

[FBN0223]

. Our pilots should not take a hit thanks to your old planes.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Fine!!! Then your pilots should not benefit when the 787 finally shows up. It works both ways, General. You can't pick and choose seniority numbers based upon aircraft retirements and not acquisitions.

But if you really want, we will use your rationale and employ this, "ONLY NWA pilots fly the B787!!" Works for me!!!

 

[FDJ2]

You all better get your $hit together and meet in the middle and fast. It's going to happen. General it's a merger, not DAL buying NWA.

Are you sure about that?

You DAL pilots need to get off your high horse and drop your demands about career expectations.

There are no demands. There was simply an offer to come together at the front end of the merger. That offer was rejected. O.K. fine. The DAL pilots have some leverage to get some contractual goodies. What's wrong with the DAL using the leverage in their contract to get those goodies. They fought hard for that leverage, they ought to be able to exercise it.

The NWA guys still remember 3 books and will stand fast to not let that crap happen again.

That's exactly why it might. They created separate pilot groups within their own ranks and they might have created the same scenario for themselves again. This time it wont be the Republic guys on the short end of the stick.

In the meantime you DAL guys will hold out and then the arbitrator will end up giving you a $hit sandwich.

I'm sure the AAA pilots were equally cocky.

If it goes to an arbitrator then NWA pilots will come out ahead of what you guys wanted on the original offer... mark my words. Deal now or get screwed....

hookah...

We'll take your input under advicement.

 

[FDJ2]

These are the same guys who high-fived the day they took over the PanAm shuttle while putting the PAA guys on the street without a second thought. ALPA brothers my a$$! TC

Actually we took the Pan Am guys with their aircraft.

 

[FDJ2]

And how long would that take? How many DC9s will be parked before that arbitration is anywhere near settled?

The next question is how long do you think it will take to get a joint contract?

Do the AAA/AWA pilots have one yet? They have an SLI, but no joint contract and therefore no SLI implementation.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

I don't think anyone wants a blood bath, that's why we worked so hard to come up with a transaction framework agreement that would have included all of us. That agreement died when we couldn't resolve the SLI issue amicably.

Plan "b" is to get the bennies we can get from our management for the DAL pilots with the leverage our contract provides.

I suggest the NWA pilots do the same with their management.

Really, because I see a lot of insinuation and veiled threats from you guys that DALPA is complicit in a management scheme to accelerate DC-9 retirements. Why would you guys want to do this? Perhaps it is your feeling that if you can help management down the path of retiring DC-9s and furloughing NWA pilots then an arbitrated SLI might... just might... work out a little more in your favor?

Case in point, somebody just said that the "crappy DC-9s" are needed to carry pax for the pacific feed, and you more or less said, "we'll see about that".

So.... honest question... If the opportunity arises for management to make an end run around NWA's Section 1, park more planes than would have previously been allowed, and furlough NWA pilots, will DALPA and Delta pilots be willing to let that stand or possibly help it along on the off chance that it could prove beneficial to you in the future?

We are obviously not going to agree on what got us to this point. What I want to know is, now that we are at this point, would you be willing to exploit an opportunity to advance your career at the expense of mine?

 

[ultrarunner]

How do you think the TPG or whatever it is that bought Midwest will fit into this whole game?

NWA will have to divest because of the scope issue. So MidEx will cease to exist. Skywest is reasonably ramped up and can provide whatever feed NWA sees fit while it all shakes out.

I would agree with a previous poster to expect up to 1000 layoffs between the two groups.

 

[3ds]

We are obviously not going to agree on what got us to this point. What I want to know is, now that we are at this point, would you be willing to exploit an opportunity to advance your career at the expense of mine?

A lot of Jr DAL guys saw NWA trying to do just that. Now the shoe is on the other foot.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

A lot of Jr DAL guys saw NWA trying to do just that. Now the shoe is on the other foot.

Still didn't answer my question.

 

[PuffDriver]

Still didn't answer my question.

Sure he did. You guys made your seniority grab with your paid for -9s, your seniority, your great balance sheet, your superior intelligence, etc.

Now what happens, happens. We hope it can be resolved amicably, but if not so be it. You had your chance, and held out for your usual-arbitration. You'll get it, eventually. In the meantime, you get exactly what you wanted: your own operation, your attrition, and your great balance sheet.

 

[3ds]

You go first.

 

[FmrFreightDog]

Sure he did. You guys made your seniority grab with your paid for -9s, your seniority, your great balance sheet, your superior intelligence, etc.

Now what happens, happens. We hope it can be resolved amicably, but if not so be it. You had your chance, and held out for your usual-arbitration. You'll get it, eventually. In the meantime, you get exactly what you wanted: your own operation, your attrition, and your great balance sheet.

No. He didn't. My question was, "What I want to know is, now that we are at this point, would you be willing to exploit an opportunity to advance your career at the expense of mine?" It's a simple question... yes or no... and I'm still waiting for an answer. All I've gotten so far is equivocation.

 

[3ds]

Still didn't answer my question.

Junior or not, no DAL --or-- NWA guy wants to exploit the other pilot group for his own benefit. Hold out as long as you can so that OTHER PARTIES sweeten the deal for us, but don't do it at the expense of each another. That's a zero-sum game that unfortunately produces 2 losers: the DAL guys may get a raise (with possible furloughs) while the NWA guys scuttle the deal in the coming years, so who really benefits? We pilots have to live with the consequences (esp the young guys) long after the perks have come and gone. Both sides can grandstand for their constituents as long as the clock keeps ticking, but when it stops, they need to work it out.

Everyone sees the mess at AWA and for the long term good of us all, we want to avoid it!

 

[General Lee]

I really have a hard time believing the NWA guys would have walked away from such a sweet deal...IF it was one...

UNLESS a committee Chair was mad at NWA for his own screwjob at NWA during the Republic acquisition. He may have wanted to make up for his previous loss. Looking for a homerun, he really swung and missed, for all of you it seems.

We did lose 2000 senior guys who went for their pension pre-BK, but we also parked a lot of planes at that same time. (MD11s, 737-300s, 737-200s, 767-200s) We didn't gain that much when they left. This is something that hasn't happened to you, yet.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FmrFreightDog]

You go first.

No. I will not support NWALPA jumping in bed with NWA management to hatch a plan to accelerate retirement of MD-88s so we may be able to achieve a more favorable SLI. From our position, it appears that your leadership is doing exactly that. Now... will you support it?