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DL/NWA predictions.....

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I don't know why that didn't go. Anyway, here goes:

The new Delta will look a lot like Air France and KLM--Air France owns both, but runs them seperately. As fuel stays high, NWA will park planes that are too expensive, like the DC9s and some 4 engine planes. The NWA pilots would have petitioned for arbitration, which could take awhile to happen, and in the meantime their career expectations have changed thanks to aircraft parkings. An eventual merger will happen, but with a smaller group.

And where will the NWA ex Greenbook Merger Negotaiting Chairman be? Still on the A330 flying trips from PDX to NRT and AMS, and flying only with his core "so called friends", who tell him "you did the best you could..." all the while cursing him behind his back for losing out on promised upgrades.


I wish this could all be solved quickly, but the NWALPA guys need to do something to get closer to a fair SLI. Really. Then, when we are all together, we can all go to a NASCAR event and have chicken fingers...


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
Why would anyone want a blood bath, both sides just wants what is best for them. Let's be honest thought NW, there is to much truth to the rumor that your guy leading you down this path is a prick and that is why it is going to be a blood bath if there is one.
 
ugasucks said:
Why would anyone want a blood bath, both sides just wants what is best for them. Let's be honest thought NW, there is to much truth to the rumor that your guy leading you down this path is a prick and that is why it is going to be a blood bath if there is one.
Click to expand...

Yup, ya'll is right. We were idiots from walking away from such a good deal that not one DAL pilot has any details of.

You must be junior and worried about your impending furlough. Sorry.
 
not talking about walking away for the deal, just talking about the truth. Time to got watch the Masters yall have fun!
 
General Lee said:
The new Delta will look a lot like Air France and KLM--Air France owns both, but runs them seperately. As fuel stays high, NWA will park planes that are too expensive, like the DC9s and some 4 engine planes. The NWA pilots would have petitioned for arbitration, which could take awhile to happen, and in the meantime their career expectations have changed thanks to aircraft parkings. An eventual merger will happen, but with a smaller group.


Bye Bye--General Lee
Click to expand...

Do you think the average NWA line guy has had anymore input into this screwed up process than we have? We're all the same here, just trying to make a living in this crappy industry.
 
You all better get your $hit together and meet in the middle and fast. It's going to happen. General it's a merger, not DAL buying NWA. You DAL pilots need to get off your high horse and drop your demands about career expectations. The NWA guys still remember 3 books and will stand fast to not let that crap happen again. In the meantime you DAL guys will hold out and then the arbitrator will end up giving you a $hit sandwich. If it goes to an arbitrator then NWA pilots will come out ahead of what you guys wanted on the original offer... mark my words. Deal now or get screwed....

hookah...
 
One, the terms have not been disclosed of the financial transaction. A is pure conjure. It could be an acquisition. It may need to be done that way for this crap to happen the way that it "appears" to be going down.
Two, if we furlough that if fine, I will be gone and will more than likely not look back. It is the state of the industry. I am not happy about it, but I have only one vote. I do not think that this will happen. Lots needs to be done before we get to that.
Remember this. If DAL does furlough, they will be taking guys off the the 767ER, and 767. With the 400+ new hires that are on these fleets, I think that a break even on furloughs is somewhere around three to four years min. I would take at least a year of training to just cover these slots. Money is money and training costs a lot.
Three, there are detail that will be coming out in the next few days, and weeks that will make this all clear. I am not even sure that we will disclose this new deal. My bet is a SLI agreement by the end of next week. Both sides know the gloves are off. Lets just hope that some people have stopped putting their heads in the sand.
 
Why is anyone making the assumption of furloughs? That may be the case, but it also may be the case that they go right back to opening the interview 'gates' since the combined airline will have much more growing power, pricing power, and economies of scale.
 
ACL65Pilot,

Well I hope you don't get furloughed. I really don't know whats going to happen, but I think ALPA National needs to show some leadership. Where the h*ll is Prater anyway...
 
d.fitz said:
Why is anyone making the assumption of furloughs? That may be the case, but it also may be the case that they go right back to opening the interview 'gates' since the combined airline will have much more growing power, pricing power, and economies of scale.
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fitz, I don't know how long you've been in this business but the scenario you suggest has NEVER happened. Name a merger between two major airlines that resulted in immediate growth? The best you can hope for is to hold your position.

NWA has a bunch of 1960's-era DC9's and as much as I love that airplane, I've got a better chance of drinking beer from what's left of them next year than anyone at the combined carrier has of flying them to Fargo.

To the NWA guys: If Delta tries to operate you separately for one second longer than necessary, you file a single carrier petition and head for arbitration.

These are the same guys who high-fived the day they took over the PanAm shuttle while putting the PAA guys on the street without a second thought. ALPA brothers my a$$! TC
 
AA717driver said:
fitz, I don't know how long you've been in this business but the scenario you suggest has NEVER happened. Name a merger between two major airlines that resulted in immediate growth? The best you can hope for is to hold your position.

NWA has a bunch of 1960's-era DC9's and as much as I love that airplane, I've got a better chance of drinking beer from what's left of them next year than anyone at the combined carrier has of flying them to Fargo.

To the NWA guys: If Delta tries to operate you separately for one second longer than necessary, you file a single carrier petition and head for arbitration.

These are the same guys who high-fived the day they took over the PanAm shuttle while putting the PAA guys on the street without a second thought. ALPA brothers my a$$! TC
Click to expand...


And how long would that take? How many DC9s will be parked before that arbitration is anywhere near settled?
 
What you really need to do is look at Delta's history after a merger. The have zigged every time. AKA grown.
I bet it happens this time too.
Lest ye forget DAL will own three cities that have the highest per capita Fortune 500 companies. MSP, NYC and ATL. Direct flight to everywhere as you see today. Probably more of them too.
 
They are there and will fit in if need be. If there is no use for Midex I would assume that they would be sold.

From what I am hearing they are in play, and to what extent may never come out.
 
AA717driver said:
fitz, I don't know how long you've been in this business but the scenario you suggest has NEVER happened. Name a merger between two major airlines that resulted in immediate growth?

How about Delta and Western? Delta hired thousands of pilots from the merger in '87 until the end of '91.


These are the same guys who high-fived the day they took over the PanAm shuttle while putting the PAA guys on the street without a second thought. ALPA brothers my a$$! TC
Click to expand...

You obviously don't know what you're talking about. Every airplane that Delta took came with PanAm pilots. I know, because I've flown with plenty of them.
 
First of all, if DC9s are going to be parked in a merged airline soon, then I don't think ANY Delta pilots should be furloughed. Nope. I think that is one reason to keep seperate companies, until the unwanted airplanes are removed. NWA guys knew what types of planes they have at their airline, a bunch of 1960's built clunkers that could be parked with high gas. If they come over to Delta, that isn't the Delta pilots' fault---they never interviewed for DC9 FO or 747FE. If NWA stayed independant, they would hurt even more by themselves. Why does Steenland want to merge so much? (besides the money pot waiting for him) That may sound heartless, but guess what? We embraced you with open arms and a fair deal, and your greenbook agenda man ruined it. Our pilots should not take a hit thanks to your old planes.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
General Lee said:
We embraced you with open arms and a fair deal, and your greenbook agenda man ruined it. Our pilots should not take a hit thanks to your old planes.

Bye Bye--General Lee
Click to expand...
I really have a hard time believing the NWA guys would have walked away from such a sweet deal...IF it was one...
 
General Lee said:
NWA guys knew what types of planes they have at their airline, a bunch of 1960's built clunkers that could be parked with high gas. If they come over to Delta, that isn't the Delta pilots' fault---they never interviewed for DC9 FO or 747FE. Our pilots should not take a hit thanks to your old planes.


Bye Bye--General Lee
Click to expand...
Why do you constantly rip the NWA guys for the type of equipment they fly?..is this their fault?..it's the company they were hired by that gets the equipment...but you choose to constantly throw out these barbs at them..what do you really expect to gain by this?...yes, you are getting 777's...great...NWA is getting the 787, we all know what is happening with that a/c...NWA pilots fault?..NO..but you continue the broken record that they may get to fly it with the space shuttle, or some idiotic remark like that. Your demeaning attitude toward a fellow group of pilots is very disturbing. Relax and see what plays out.
 
Even if DAL/NWA was to retire every DC9 in the next year, it would be close to a wash on pilots with the 777's, 73's,and future 787's on the way. It could create a shortage of pilots rather than a surplus almost immediately... Everyone needs to chill and wait and see what has been agreed upon, It might not be as bad as you think if it strengthens the company as much as expected.
 
Why should I be put on the street for your old DC-9s, please tell me someone? If my company had old 60's era planes and was going to get rid of them I would not like it but I could understand why I wouldn't have a job, but we don't here at Delta. People came to Delta knowing they could get the 76ER, where as people went to NW knowing they would get the DC-9 or 747so, there is a difference.
 
IXLR8 said:
I really have a hard time believing the NWA guys would have walked away from such a sweet deal...IF it was one...
Click to expand...

Here's the deal as I see it: the NWA guys had unrealistic viewpoints about "career expectations." Sure, during the latter 1990s, most airline careers were attractive - big pensions, 747-400 PIC slots with a growing fleet of widebodies, etc. Well, three things happened that have impacted career expectations for all pilots:
  • 9-11
  • Age 65
  • $110 oil
These three things have ruined many pilots' career expectations. That's the big point. If NWA guys were expecting latter 1990s conditions going forward then they are sadly mistaken. $110+ oil alone will probably lead to fleet reductions and potential furloughs at a bunch of majors. IMHO, the NWA pilots should have adjusted their "high-flying" career expectations to meet reality (the three things mentioned above) and taken the wage, equity and QOL improvements offered earlier.

I wanted to be an astronaut years ago and that ain't happening either... Adjust your expectations to meet reality and return to the bargaining table while you still have some time... The junior NWA pilots must be pi$$ed off - I know I would be with Grandpa A330 pilot negotiating for my future with blinders on.
 
FmrFreightDog said:
No. You don't. On the contrary, I imagine you're giddy at the prospect of the bloodbath you *think* is about to hit NWA.
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone wants a blood bath, that's why we worked so hard to come up with a transaction framework agreement that would have included all of us. That agreement died when we couldn't resolve the SLI issue amicably.

Plan "b" is to get the bennies we can get from our management for the DAL pilots with the leverage our contract provides.

I suggest the NWA pilots do the same with their management.
 
General Lee said:
. Our pilots should not take a hit thanks to your old planes.


Bye Bye--General Lee
Click to expand...

Fine!!! Then your pilots should not benefit when the 787 finally shows up. It works both ways, General. You can't pick and choose seniority numbers based upon aircraft retirements and not acquisitions.

But if you really want, we will use your rationale and employ this, "ONLY NWA pilots fly the B787!!" Works for me!!!
 
tailhookah said:
You all better get your $hit together and meet in the middle and fast. It's going to happen. General it's a merger, not DAL buying NWA.

Are you sure about that?

You DAL pilots need to get off your high horse and drop your demands about career expectations.

There are no demands. There was simply an offer to come together at the front end of the merger. That offer was rejected. O.K. fine. The DAL pilots have some leverage to get some contractual goodies. What's wrong with the DAL using the leverage in their contract to get those goodies. They fought hard for that leverage, they ought to be able to exercise it.

The NWA guys still remember 3 books and will stand fast to not let that crap happen again.

That's exactly why it might. They created separate pilot groups within their own ranks and they might have created the same scenario for themselves again. This time it wont be the Republic guys on the short end of the stick.

In the meantime you DAL guys will hold out and then the arbitrator will end up giving you a $hit sandwich.

I'm sure the AAA pilots were equally cocky.

If it goes to an arbitrator then NWA pilots will come out ahead of what you guys wanted on the original offer... mark my words. Deal now or get screwed....

hookah...
Click to expand...

We'll take your input under advicement.
 
johnsonrod said:
And how long would that take? How many DC9s will be parked before that arbitration is anywhere near settled?
Click to expand...

The next question is how long do you think it will take to get a joint contract?

Do the AAA/AWA pilots have one yet? They have an SLI, but no joint contract and therefore no SLI implementation.
 

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