Discussion with the V.P @ Skywest. ASA lookout

[JustaNumber]

I think its the 50% mark. In two years its the 2nd cheapest mark.

Does anyone have any real dates and figures on this super-top-secret info?

Oh, and Speedtape, ya gotta change that avatar. It's just nasty.

 

[Tarzan]

Does anyone have any real dates and figures on this super-top-secret info?

Oh, and Speedtape, ya gotta change that avatar. It's just nasty.

I saw some of it but it was before the merger. We weren't far from being where we needed to be. From what I hear through the ultra reliable grapevine, it's gotten worse since the merger and Pinnacle and Mesaba being added to the portfolio. One of our biggest problems is the number of senior guys ASA has. However, the number of programs that have been because they were simply money holes is surprising. The amount of pass through cost we've saved Delta has been huge. Best thing about the saved money is SkyWest Inc gets to keep half of whatever is saved over the first year of the program. I know our metric right now is still out of whack and I don't see how we will get to the second cheapest anytime soon. Furloughs with a bunch of senior guys doesn't help one bit.

 

[USCtrojan]

I saw some of it but it was before the merger. We weren't far from being where we needed to be. From what I hear through the ultra reliable grapevine, it's gotten worse since the merger and Pinnacle and Mesaba being added to the portfolio. One of our biggest problems is the number of senior guys ASA has. However, the number of programs that have been because they were simply money holes is surprising. The amount of pass through cost we've saved Delta has been huge. Best thing about the saved money is SkyWest Inc gets to keep half of whatever is saved over the first year of the program. I know our metric right now is still out of whack and I don't see how we will get to the second cheapest anytime soon. Furloughs with a bunch of senior guys doesn't help one bit.

Which is precisely why we need to grow....Dilute the seniority with Junior folks. ASA is senior, but so is Comair, and SkyWest. SkyWest had the benefit of explosive growth in the few years after the purchase of ASA. This is why we need another partner.

Trojan

 

[Tarzan]

Which is precisely why we need to grow....Dilute the seniority with Junior folks. ASA is senior, but so is Comair, and SkyWest. SkyWest had the benefit of explosive growth in the few years after the purchase of ASA. This is why we need another partner.

Trojan

Hence my speculation that Inc would add more planes to ASA next. The problem we face at ASA is we haven't seen any increase in airframes in quite some time. If this means a better shot at seat at Delta, so be it. But Republic is junior just as Mesaba and Pinnacle are. We may not really need it though, in another 1-2 years, the retirements will begin again and the economy should be headed the right way. When this happens, they will scrapping for pilots at the regional level again and begging DAL to stop taking so many pilots each month.

 

[USCtrojan]

Hence my speculation that Inc would add more planes to ASA next. The problem we face at ASA is we haven't seen any increase in airframes in quite some time. If this means a better shot at seat at Delta, so be it. But Republic is junior just as Mesaba and Pinnacle are. We may not really need it though, in another 1-2 years, the retirements will begin again and the economy should be headed the right way. When this happens, they will scrapping for pilots at the regional level again and begging DAL to stop taking so many pilots each month.

Good point. I'm not sure Republic is gonna be around in the DCI portfolio. Rumor at F9 is that Republic is saying there will be a full integration of seniority lists if the buyout happens. That's just scuttlebutt, so don't take it as fact. My guess is, however, that all money flows to Republic Inc....DAL isn't gonna like financing a competitor...and you know Yonited won't either.

We did see quite a bit of attrition after Inc. bought us. A lot of extremely senior folks (20 years+) left and went to Virgin America, SouthWest, Delta, Emirates and Cathay Pacific.

I agree, about the growth. We need to grow, so does all our competitors. There will be some changes coming for the better (finally), I think. We will see!

Trojan

 

[Speedtape]

Lets put it this way. SKW is coming up to a benchmark in their contract with DAL. It is going to be very interesting to see how things go after October. A lot of airplanes are in play.

You have some of your facts wrong.

October will not determine anything. At least, not this October.

 

[JoeMerchant]

I have never seen the perception of ALPA as bad as it is now here at ASA...You ALPA cheerleaders have your work cut out for you....

ALPA Cheerleader--Guilty as accused, mainly because of the good work that YOU and others after you have done! Most of the perception is caused by the fact that there is no growth due to the downturn in the economy. When there is growth, upgrades, and hiring at majors, attitudes are GREAT!

The "great work" that was achieved is of no use if your job can be transferred to a fellow "union brother"....Even our fellow "union brothers" at the mainline are starting to undercut us to "recapture" the flying...."Recapture" is the union accepted way of undercutting....If we do it is "undercutting" or "stealing"....If the mainline pilots do it, then it is called "recapturing"...Gotta love semantics....

I can't disagree with some of your post, just as you can't disagree with mine. However, I will disagree that there is no need for ALPA today. Contrary, there is more need today, than ever before. The need is protection from our Company, and from ALPA.

I am interested in what you mean here...I think I know, and that is the only reason I am open to still remaining in ALPA....however that is a heck of a way to run a union...What are you inferring here?

In the meantime: "Two, four, six, eight, who do we appreciate???ALPA--(and maybe even the work of the RJDC to some degree--Rah,Rah, Ray!)

Do you really think the RJDC helped us here? If so, what does that say about a union that you have to sue to protect your own interests?

 

[JoeMerchant]

IMHO, there is no basis for a grievance on red arrow days.

What is a red arrow day? It's no different than the light that comes on when you are low on gas in your car. It is simply an indication that reserves are near or at the minimum for that day and that as a result, "a swap MAY not be approved due to minimum coverage." It's that simple.

What part of the contract does it violate? The Company has clearly stated that they will not staff this airline to accommodate swaps. Why should they? They have an airline to run.

Why are we grieving it then?

 

[JoeMerchant]

There is a lot of blame to go around at ALPA. There has been bad leadership and bad decisions.

The first step is admitting you have a problem...that is progress...What are some of the bad decisions and leadership that you have seen?

One last thing, you cannot ignore the fact that ALPA has helped make your profession safer. That in itself should be reason enough to be a part of ALPA, so that you are more likely to make it home after every trip. As I write, ALPA is working to make us all safer. Your welcome.

Now it's getting deep in here....I'm supposed to actually believe that I owe it to ALPA that I am more likely to make it home after each trip? Now you are reaching....Spare me.....

 

[JoeMerchant]

Most businesses and institutions have a facade on front to project a desired image or brand--because perception is everything. However, what's behind the facade is usually quite different than perception.

....and that includes ALPA....would you not agree?

 

[Mr. Johnson]

....and that includes ALPA....would you not agree?

...Game, set, and match to JoeMerchant!

 

[Willy21]

....and that includes ALPA....would you not agree?

Kind of like what you did in '98 there Joe? Pot meet Kettle

 

[JoeMerchant]

Kind of like what you did in '98 there Joe? Pot meet Kettle

Specifics Willy21? Would you like some facts with your un-informed opinions?

 

[Speedtape]

The "great work" that was achieved is of no use if your job can be transferred to a fellow "union brother"....Even our fellow "union brothers" at the mainline are starting to undercut us to "recapture" the flying...."Recapture" is the union accepted way of undercutting....If we do it is "undercutting" or "stealing"....If the mainline pilots do it, then it is called "recapturing"...Gotta love semantics....

On July 29, 2009, at 22:09. Please Stamp, "AGREED"




I am interested in what you mean here...I think I know, and that is the only reason I am open to still remaining in ALPA....however that is a heck of a way to run a union...What are you inferring here?

I know you know what I mean. Would you be safe, if you were in the Mob, and you got out? Capisca?



Do you really think the RJDC helped us here? If so, what does that say about a union that you have to sue to protect your own interests?

It says, you had to do what you had to do. There is plenty of case law with lawsuits over due diligence, fiduciary trust issues, and yes, duty of fair representation issues in this Union and all the others. Many times it involves individuals or small groups. However, I guess that in any organization, there is an unseen power group that really wields the power. Do you think the President of the United States makes policy?

By the way, Power Corrupts!

 

[Speedtape]

Why are we grieving it then?

It's just my humble opinion, as stated. I could not answer that question on merit or the unknown intent.

However, from reading the contract, I am not sure there is harm in regard to what is specifically allowed or disallowed, and what is silent(management's rights.)

What say you?

Just as a "straw dog" has no real bite, does the indication of a red arrow day inflict any harm? It's simply a status indicator. It, in itself, simply provides useful information and to some degree, should control expectation, and project some degree of predictability to a swapper. Quite simply, there is no foul, so there should be no harm. Again, IMHO.

Furthermore, although there is some semblance of a reserve staffing formula for the month in total numbers, the contract is silent on any specific prescription for daily reserve staffing. Therefore, as you know, it is management's rights. In addition, it was clearly stated in the crew lounge by one of our leadership team, that the Company would never staff reserves for swapping. No airline does it, nor does our contract prescribe it.

 

[Speedtape]

....and that includes ALPA....would you not agree?

Did I not say "Most?" When a predator is trying to catch it's prey, does it not use "allurements?" It's all part of that "Natural Selection" and "only the strong and smart survive" stuff! Marketing is simply a manifestation and imitation of many things that occur in Nature. (The Science of Allurement)

When you were trying to catch your girl, did you not put on and strut your best stuff? (It's okay, it's rhetorical, so you are safe!) :laugh:

 

[Nevets]

The first step is admitting you have a problem...that is progress...What are some of the bad decisions and leadership that you have seen?



Now it's getting deep in here....I'm supposed to actually believe that I owe it to ALPA that I am more likely to make it home after each trip? Now you are reaching....Spare me.....

I was never one to say that ALPA was NOT and is NOT perfect. More reason to get involved. In my time, the biggest mistake is supporting MPL.

And yes, ALPA has helped you make it home every night. Sure you owe it to make ALPA better/safer for those after us just as those before us made it better/safer for us. I'm not saying ALPA is the only reason for the safety of the industry but you cannot argue that ALPA has had a major rule in most if not all landmark safety enhancements.

 

[Willy21]

I am just glad we got your money back, that includes those of us who didn't pay for our training. How much was that worth?

It is fun to call out other people facades, but we don't like it when others call out ours?

 

[Speedtape]

I was never one to say that ALPA was NOT and is NOT perfect. More reason to get involved. In my time, the biggest mistake is supporting MPL.

And yes, ALPA has helped you make it home every night. Sure you owe it to make ALPA better/safer for those after us just as those before us made it better/safer for us. I'm not saying ALPA is the only reason for the safety of the industry but you cannot argue that ALPA has had a major rule in most if not all landmark safety enhancements.

Nevjets,

You have to wonder what world some of these folks live in? If everything had to be PERFECT, in this world, before we could breathe, work, live, and love, we would all be standing around like a bunch of slugs, waiting for the PERFECT opportunity, letting the best of life pass us by, before we would dare get up to the home plate of life to bat. If you don't get up to the plate to bat, you can't get a hit. By the law of averages, even the best batter in the majors only gets a hit less than 30% of the time. That's not even 1/3.

I want to live, not breathe and waste precious air, criticizing and standing back not even playing in the game--I guess why those folks are usually called Arm Chair Quarterbacks--it's safer but with no real rewards.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

You have some of your facts wrong.

October will not determine anything. At least, not this October.

Just wait. I am not talking about the DCI contract in its pure form. There are some options coming up here and from those options will come decisions. SKW more than ASA, but we know how that goes.
I am sure that SKW will not balk at taking your flying. I am sure ASA will not sue SKW or DAL because said ratios might not be exactly correct.
It is a mad, mad world....