Discussion with the V.P @ Skywest. ASA lookout

[Speedtape]

I have never seen the perception of ALPA as bad as it is now here at ASA...You ALPA cheerleaders have your work cut out for you....

ALPA Cheerleader--Guilty as accused, mainly because of the good work that YOU and others after you have done! Most of the perception is caused by the fact that there is no growth due to the downturn in the economy. When there is growth, upgrades, and hiring at majors, attitudes are GREAT!

I can't disagree with some of your post, just as you can't disagree with mine. However, I will disagree that there is no need for ALPA today. Contrary, there is more need today, than ever before. The need is protection from our Company, and from ALPA. As you know, for the most part, ALPA is the ASA pilot group. We have too many pilots who have shallow perspectives because this is their first job and/or they need someone or something to blame for the current economic conditions that are preventing them from reaching or at least moving towards their goals. That is what is causing the discontent--with everything, including ALPA. ALPA is not a cure all for all things aviation--but certainly, without it, we would be making near minimum wage or whatever our Employers decided to pay us--but more concerning--we would be At-Will employees. If that were the case, many of us would not still be employed here!

In regard to this Company and it's current management, now, yes, maybe it's the best it has ever been. Maybe, because they have performance goals and they need everyone on board. However, the reality is that could change tomorrow. How many different managers and managements have we(you and I) seen? My guess is that we are just in a different chapter for now, and the end of the book is still at least 10 years away--maybe!

In the meantime: "Two, four, six, eight, who do we appreciate???ALPA--(and maybe even the work of the RJDC to some degree--Rah,Rah, Ray!)

 

[Speedtape]

The CNC negotiated that "little jewel" because the company said NO to one list (which was on the table first) and any meaningful steps towards that. They did, however, agree to fragmentation language which protects both the ASA and SkyWest pilots, as well as any future SkyWest subsidiary (if there ever is one).

The bigger question is, since you are so anti-union, why did you ever come to ASA? We've been a union carrier for a long time. SkyWest was hiring up until just about a year ago, why did you never go there? Personally, even after all this crap we are dealing with, I think ASA is a pretty good place to work.

From one ALPA cheerleader to another ALPA cheerleader, Well Said!

 

[Plainsman]

How is the greviance with the red arrow days going? Seems like the company is getting what they want with that one! Got to go to flightinfo for info like that.

 

[buscap]

In my opinion alpa negotiated that little jewel thinking they would not transfer planes because they wouldn't want union minded pilots over at skywest. It was purely an accident that it could work out well for those of us that would like to escape socialism. Myself and many others would transfer tomorrow without thinking about it if we held relative seniority and got out from under alpa.

Aside from that issue I can think of far more issues I disagree with alpa than agree. 100 to 1 at least. But then again I'm confident in my ability to do my job well and without getting myself into trouble by being stupid/arrogant/lazy/wild/etc.....

Here to hoping skywest will make the offer at some point:beer:

So let's see here... you want to escape "socialism" by moving to a non-union airline...as long as you are able to keep your date of hire seniority? I think I got that right.

And let's see, you must think that seniority gets you all sorts of better pay and quality of life. And that seniority system just happens to be part of the union system. A system which Skywest uses because if they didn't they would have a union on property the very next day.

After all, in a non-socialist airline the company would be free to disregard seniority and award seats and pay based on what the market would bare. And of course employees would be prohibited from divulging how much money they made, so you would never know just how you stood, seniority being gone and all.

Yep!!

Sounds to me like getting out from under this socialist system is a great idea!!!

Whoopdee freakin whippity dooohhhh!!!!!

Doooshhhbag shortsighted hypocrite. Read a book you idiot!!!

 

[Tarzan]

Speedtape,
You sit and lecture as if you have some all encompassing perspective that I could never have. GFY and your GoJet comment. I was at TSA when that entire sh1tball got rolling. Hulas can go rim a goat for all I care. I saw quite a few kids wind up on the street because of those turds. I've done plenty of other stuff in my life as well. I am not some snot nose kid who got here on daddy's money. Basically, I have life experience to base some of my thought processes. So you can go screw yourself with your "mightier than thou" assumptions.

If you've been here as long as you have, you likely came here out of school with little other experience in life so ASA must be one the crappiest companies ever.( How is that for an assumption?) I've heard that same thing from a bunch of guys at ASA. I got news, try out TSA, then come tell me how bad ASA was before Inc bought us. Granted, I missed out on the George and John days and they likely got what they deserved, a union. Those days are long gone. I am not arguing that ALPA has not done anything good; I am arguing that ALPA has not evolved along with the economic shift we have seen in the last 15-20 years. It is hurting you and me in the long. Sure some gains look great on paper and even on the paycheck for a time but at some point those gains begin to diminish in their return. We can sit and throw mud back and forth, but we will not change the other's mind on this. You have valid points but you will likely refuse to acknowledge mine.

I do know some of the volunteers and many of them are d@mn good people who are doing what they believe is right. But I know of at least one who's said he has no intention of ever flying the line again and that he waiting for his shot at National. That is the sort of stuff that does not help my vision of ALPA hence my desire for a forced turnover if not the volunteers then the all the elected people to include the MEC. For the record, I like all those guys as well. For as much garbage as you hear about Newie being militant, I've seen him to be rather level headed and looks to calm things instead of inflaming emotions. But human nature being what it is, even the best man can be influenced by privilege and status and seek his own best interest instead of who they represent.

You claim not to be attacking me yet you link me to conscienceless individuals such as the scabs at CO and GoJet? The game has rules and when you jump in, you play by the rules. I am not so arrogant as to believe I'd have much luck in changing the system. I have entertained the notion of running for an office and have since decided against it. I know there are enough angry folks here that you hear form one on one, to be able to fight through the unpleasant parts but I am not ready to put myself in that predicament now. As for uninformed, I have information I probably should never have gotten about how some things have "occurred." I know another officer who stood his ground on moral grounds and was run out. I respect this guy highly. He believes in representation but not how things are being done now. I am not uninformed as you would like to believe. I was more disappointed than anything to know how some of the money was being spent and how some have conducted themselves.

I'd like the chance to do something with ALPA but how do you juggle college, two jobs, family, and volunteering at the church. Show me a way and I'll take a shot at it.

 

[Tarzan]

My fingers hurt and it is probably chock full of spelling errors.

 

[screamingpax]

The only people ALPA truely helps are themselves - to get some more time off and get paid for it. Times have changed for us at ASA. We pay 2% dues and let Inc. grow while we at ASA shrink. Think what it will be like 5 years into the future (if that exists for ASA). The same MEC helping themselves, feeding everyone this pro ALPA bologna to benefit themselves and DALPA. Skywest treats there pilots well because they don't want to deal with ALPA. We get treated worse because we have ALPA????

 

[Dubya]

YyyyaaaaaaMesasuckswwwwwnnnn

 

[Nevets]

I'm not trying to start a p1ssing contest. However, read that words, man! You're starting to making posts like Rez.

Why don't you tell me how it is a real union with uniform work rules and wages. Why don't you show me how ALPA has altered their stance in the face of a changing market place. You're the guy that that defends ALPA and generally does it fairly well. You tell me where I am wrong. I have my notions and I'd like you tell me instead of the typical mantra of questioning anyone who doesn't fall into line. This doesn't help ALPA's cause one bit in my perspective, it only reenforces it just as it does with others who think like I do.

If you guy's like Speedtape who vehemently defend ALPA would read my posts, you'd see I am not thrilled with the idea of no representation. However, I feel you ALPA's leaders have grown to comfortable in their postions of power and pestige. First of all, Speedtape, you need a valium. You take this crap whay to personal. Second, I'd impose term limits of twice around on everyone. This includes volunteers that have been particular posts at the LEC level as well or at least reduce some of the perks. I want volunteers who truly care about what they do and are not in it for the bennies Thirdly, I'd get National out the negotiation business. That is for the MEC and LEC level. I liken this sorta to the federal government telling a state what to do with it's own money.

You are reading way to much into it. I asked a couple of simple questions to understand where you are coming from. So that I can have a dialogue with you without having to guess what it is you are talking about.

I love the idea of a real union with uniform wages and work rules. But I wasnt sure if that is what you were talking about. I thought you were going a different direction with your "association" comment.

By the way, we are ALPA. The elected leaders are not ALPA. If you dont like what they are doing or not doing, its not that hard to get the recalled. It just takes line pilots to do it.

By the way, every MEC negotiates for themselves. The MEC will poll their members to see what they want. And the MEC directs the NC what to negotiate for depending on the members feedback. National does NOT negotiate for the MEC. Sure, their attorney may write the scope section because that is something they are good at but generally the MEC/NC decide on work rules and pay and ultimately the line pilots decide with their ratification vote. The president just signs the final contract as long as it follows the administrative manual. Also, the MEC may call the president to show up at a negotiating session just as leverage. He will be there at the MEC direction, not the other way around.

In my opinion alpa negotiated that little jewel thinking they would not transfer planes because they wouldn't want union minded pilots over at skywest. It was purely an accident that it could work out well for those of us that would like to escape socialism. Myself and many others would transfer tomorrow without thinking about it if we held relative seniority and got out from under alpa.

Aside from that issue I can think of far more issues I disagree with alpa than agree. 100 to 1 at least. But then again I'm confident in my ability to do my job well and without getting myself into trouble by being stupid/arrogant/lazy/wild/etc.....

Here to hoping skywest will make the offer at some point:beer:

According to JA himself, that language is precisely why they wouldnt transfer enough aircraft to trigger the transfer of pilots. I wonder why he feels that way?

By the way, its this "socialism" which has helped make this industry as safe as it is. Dont be so quick to take it for granted. And dont be someone who rides the coatails of us that see that and pay into it.

The only people ALPA truely helps are themselves - to get some more time off and get paid for it. Times have changed for us at ASA. We pay 2% dues and let Inc. grow while we at ASA shrink. Think what it will be like 5 years into the future (if that exists for ASA). The same MEC helping themselves, feeding everyone this pro ALPA bologna to benefit themselves and DALPA. Skywest treats there pilots well because they don't want to deal with ALPA. We get treated worse because we have ALPA????

ALPA is ourselves! ALPA has helped you by making it safe for you take make a living at what we love to do. You wouldnt have the problem of you shrinking and SKW growing at your expense if they were union. Just look at the XJT deal. If it wasnt for ALPA, XJT would probably be in the same boat as ASA. What is the link there? SKW treats their pilots "well" (depends on who you ask) because they are trying to keep them non-union. In reality, the offer them just enough to keep the from unionizing.

In any case, if you dont like the leadership, do something about it.

 

[Erlanger]

You wouldnt have the problem of you shrinking and SKW growing at your expense if they were union.

Don't be blaming the Skywest pilots. So hundreds of thousands of pilots of the all mighty ALPA is ineffective against a group of 2800 Skywest pilots. Give me a break! Before you blame others, you should look inward. And you wonder why pilots are questioning ALPA and their MECs leadership.