Discussion with the V.P @ Skywest. ASA lookout

[Speedtape]

Don't be blaming the Skywest pilots. So hundreds of thousands of pilots of the all mighty ALPA is ineffective against a group of 2800 Skywest pilots. Give me a break! Before you blame others, you should look inward. And you wonder why pilots are questioning ALPA and their MECs leadership.

Pal, Your house is made of cards. It will come tumbling down.

There are lots of problems in your SAPA that either mirror or are worse than anything going on in ALPA.

 

[Speedtape]

How is the greviance with the red arrow days going? Seems like the company is getting what they want with that one! Got to go to flightinfo for info like that.

IMHO, there is no basis for a grievance on red arrow days.

What is a red arrow day? It's no different than the light that comes on when you are low on gas in your car. It is simply an indication that reserves are near or at the minimum for that day and that as a result, "a swap MAY not be approved due to minimum coverage." It's that simple.

What part of the contract does it violate? The Company has clearly stated that they will not staff this airline to accommodate swaps. Why should they? They have an airline to run.

 

[Erlanger]

Pal, Your house is made of cards. It will come tumbling down.

There are lots of problems in your SAPA that either mirror or are worse than anything going on in ALPA.

Your post smells of desperation. Think before you write next time.

 

[whalefat]

If you don't see ASA in a slow death..... I'll hate to say I told you so in five years or however long it takes for ASA to eventually go away.

When did ASA Mgmt. say this? I know there was a rumor last year that ASA would flow through the SLC system, but nothing concrete.

Trojan

 

[Plainsman]

Thanks Speedtape that was alot better than any ALPA connection email I ever got!

 

[enuffalready]

Ok.. AS i stated, ASA is in a slow spiral... some agree an some dont...

what is the disadvantage in forcing a pilot list merger with skywest?

 

[USCtrojan]

If you don't see ASA in a slow death..... I'll hate to say I told you so in five years or however long it takes for ASA to eventually go away.

Tell you what, why wait 5 years? Let's just look at it 6 mo. to 12 mo from now? Hopefully you've quit or gone by the wayside by then. Doom and gloomers have said this for years and years and we're still around.

 

[enuffalready]

Tell you what, why wait 5 years? Let's just look at it 6 mo. to 12 mo from now? Hopefully you've quit or gone by the wayside by then. Doom and gloomers have said this for years and years and we're still around.

seriously? the only reason we hung on with only modest shrinkage ( ATR's are gone, and loss of 50's) is because we were sold to skywest. How can you says others were wrong- google a place called comair? Can you not look at the current situation. Delta management ( insert NWA) is not near as user friendly towards RJ's as the former. Whether you believe it is industry wide ( which i do) as well as management( which i do too), the truth is 50's are slip sliding away in their shelf-life. We are an overwhelming 50 seat fleet. To sit back and think that is not a cuase for concern is naive at best, and ostrich like ignorance at worst. it has already been shown that skywest will get 80% of any 70's/90's. Jerry has said the 50's are a loser and the 70/90 are profitable... thats not what i say.. those are just the facts. Do you propose we just hope Jerry throws us another 2 for 1 deal so we can get more 90's and more furloughs? or would it make more sense to force a merger of lists?

look we are both at the same place.. and essentially on the same team and probably both want what is best for us at ASA. my opinion is that sitting idle will not close ASA, but we will be much much smaller place 3,5,7 years from now.

 

[USCtrojan]

seriously? the only reason we hung on with only modest shrinkage ( ATR's are gone, and loss of 50's) is because we were sold to skywest. How can you says others were wrong- google a place called comair? Can you not look at the current situation. Delta management ( insert NWA) is not near as user friendly towards RJ's as the former. Whether you believe it is industry wide ( which i do) as well as management( which i do too), the truth is 50's are slip sliding away in their shelf-life. We are an overwhelming 50 seat fleet. To sit back and think that is not a cuase for concern is naive at best, and ostrich like ignorance at worst. it has already been shown that skywest will get 80% of any 70's/90's. Jerry has said the 50's are a loser and the 70/90 are profitable... thats not what i say.. those are just the facts. Do you propose we just hope Jerry throws us another 2 for 1 deal so we can get more 90's and more furloughs? or would it make more sense to force a merger of lists?

look we are both at the same place.. and essentially on the same team and probably both want what is best for us at ASA. my opinion is that sitting idle will not close ASA, but we will be much much smaller place 3,5,7 years from now.

You must be a newhire. Good for you. Comair is still around. In your opinion? Your opinion is chicken little. Just about on par with Joe Merchant and anti alpa. The sky is falling, the sky is falling. If you're so sure about it, then quit...Save yourself.

Pinnacle is virtually all 50 seaters, XJT is all 50 seaters. Mesaba is all Saab's and 90's. ASA has 49 70 + 90's. Mesa, need I comment? SkyWest has 2 Partners, which is what we need. All Regional airlines have an abundance of 50 seaters or some type of turboprop. That's not exclusive to ASA.

Naive? Maybe. I've been in this industry for 14 years. I've seen a few of the cyclical changes and in every single one of those cycles there's you multiplied by 1000 about the sky is falling. You haven't been right in my experience. So I'll continue being "blindly optomistic." This business doesn't operate how you think it should. Because certain things aren't happening "right now" as you think they should, does not constitute the sky is falling. And thankfully, you or I don't dictate what Inc.'s next moves are. So good luck. You must not sleep at all with your outlook.

One List, I have always wanted since the day we were bought. It's not up to me. But I support it 100%.

Trojan

 

[Browntothebone]

It saddens me to see fellow airline pilots arguing things they have no control over.
Can't we all just get along?

 

[enuffalready]

You must be a newhire. Good for you. Comair is still around. In your opinion? Your opinion is chicken little. Just about on par with Joe Merchant and anti alpa. The sky is falling, the sky is falling. If your so sure about it, then quit. Don't go away mad....

Trojan

If your best arguement to the status quo is that Comair is still around, then we see things completely different

 

[enuffalready]

deleted

 

[Nevets]

Don't be blaming the Skywest pilots. So hundreds of thousands of pilots of the all mighty ALPA is ineffective against a group of 2800 Skywest pilots. Give me a break! Before you blame others, you should look inward. And you wonder why pilots are questioning ALPA and their MECs leadership.

Ok, I'll take that back. Its not the pilots' fault. It's JA fault. But you have to ask, who lets JA do it? That is not rhetorical question, its a serious honest question that I hope you can answer for me.

ALPA is only as strong as their pilots. With SKW being non-union, there is no strength in them because they have even less leverage than ALPA to do anything (n fact, they are used against other ALPA pilots). For example of having no leverage just look at the attempted buyout of XJT. The SKW pilots were just spectators during the attempted XJT. Your livelihoods were in the hands of negotiators from XJT ALPA, with the input of ASA ALPA, (and who were also looking out for the betterment of SKW pilots, by the way) and your management. The pilots at XJT and ASA both had a seat at the table yet SKW pilots were impotent to whatever came of it. Luckily for all three pilot groups, what JA wanted to do did not come to fruition. Your welcome.

There is a lot of blame to go around at ALPA. There has been bad leadership and bad decisions. Keep in mind that other than the president, ALPA is run by volunteers that are elected to those positions. But I feel that ALPA has finally turned the corner and are on a path that helps protect all airline pilots livelihoods.

One last thing, you cannot ignore the fact that ALPA has helped make your profession safer. That in itself should be reason enough to be a part of ALPA, so that you are more likely to make it home after every trip. As I write, ALPA is working to make us all safer. Your welcome.

 

[Speedtape]

Your post smells of desperation. Think before you write next time.

My post smells of reality--maybe you don't like the smell of reality. I always think before I write. Most businesses and institutions have a facade on front to project a desired image or brand--because perception is everything. However, what's behind the facade is usually quite different than perception.

Most of us have friends at every airline, including yours. Contrary to popular belief, it is not bliss heaven. Be Proud, But Get Real!

 

[Speedtape]

If you don't see ASA in a slow death..... I'll hate to say I told you so in five years or however long it takes for ASA to eventually go away.

What is your evidence or proof? Please, be specific.

Has anybody heard that there is a world recession going on, with US unemployment approaching 10%, no business travel, negative growth in the economy, the Government spending money they don't have, and 10% reductions in capacity for the last couple of years? It will get worse before it gets better.

If you are tuned into that, then you should be able to understand what is going on with your Company, furloughs, reduced block hours, monthly guantee lines.

Please, connect the dots. Are you tracking me?

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Lets put it this way. SKW is coming up to a benchmark in their contract with DAL. It is going to be very interesting to see how things go after October. A lot of airplanes are in play.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Lets put it this way. SKW is coming up to a benchmark in their contract with DAL. It is going to be very interesting to see how things go after October. A lot of airplanes are in play.

Is that the "second cheapest" benchmark?

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Is that the "second cheapest" benchmark?

One of them. Call your buddy DF and ask him. From what I hear he is getting nervous for a few carriers.

 

[JoeMerchant]

One of them. Call your buddy DF and ask him. From what I hear he is getting nervous for a few carriers.

I am very glad we were sold off to Skywest for that very reason....Comair is going to continue to shrink...It's a shame that you seem so happy to see your former colleagues at the "regionals" get the shaft....We sure have created a mess within our so called "brotherhood" of ALPA....It's every man for themselves.....

 

[amcnd]

I think its the 50% mark. In two years its the 2nd cheapest mark.

 

[JustaNumber]

I think its the 50% mark. In two years its the 2nd cheapest mark.

Does anyone have any real dates and figures on this super-top-secret info?

Oh, and Speedtape, ya gotta change that avatar. It's just nasty.

 

[Tarzan]

Does anyone have any real dates and figures on this super-top-secret info?

Oh, and Speedtape, ya gotta change that avatar. It's just nasty.

I saw some of it but it was before the merger. We weren't far from being where we needed to be. From what I hear through the ultra reliable grapevine, it's gotten worse since the merger and Pinnacle and Mesaba being added to the portfolio. One of our biggest problems is the number of senior guys ASA has. However, the number of programs that have been because they were simply money holes is surprising. The amount of pass through cost we've saved Delta has been huge. Best thing about the saved money is SkyWest Inc gets to keep half of whatever is saved over the first year of the program. I know our metric right now is still out of whack and I don't see how we will get to the second cheapest anytime soon. Furloughs with a bunch of senior guys doesn't help one bit.

 

[USCtrojan]

I saw some of it but it was before the merger. We weren't far from being where we needed to be. From what I hear through the ultra reliable grapevine, it's gotten worse since the merger and Pinnacle and Mesaba being added to the portfolio. One of our biggest problems is the number of senior guys ASA has. However, the number of programs that have been because they were simply money holes is surprising. The amount of pass through cost we've saved Delta has been huge. Best thing about the saved money is SkyWest Inc gets to keep half of whatever is saved over the first year of the program. I know our metric right now is still out of whack and I don't see how we will get to the second cheapest anytime soon. Furloughs with a bunch of senior guys doesn't help one bit.

Which is precisely why we need to grow....Dilute the seniority with Junior folks. ASA is senior, but so is Comair, and SkyWest. SkyWest had the benefit of explosive growth in the few years after the purchase of ASA. This is why we need another partner.

Trojan

 

[Tarzan]

Which is precisely why we need to grow....Dilute the seniority with Junior folks. ASA is senior, but so is Comair, and SkyWest. SkyWest had the benefit of explosive growth in the few years after the purchase of ASA. This is why we need another partner.

Trojan

Hence my speculation that Inc would add more planes to ASA next. The problem we face at ASA is we haven't seen any increase in airframes in quite some time. If this means a better shot at seat at Delta, so be it. But Republic is junior just as Mesaba and Pinnacle are. We may not really need it though, in another 1-2 years, the retirements will begin again and the economy should be headed the right way. When this happens, they will scrapping for pilots at the regional level again and begging DAL to stop taking so many pilots each month.

 

[USCtrojan]

Hence my speculation that Inc would add more planes to ASA next. The problem we face at ASA is we haven't seen any increase in airframes in quite some time. If this means a better shot at seat at Delta, so be it. But Republic is junior just as Mesaba and Pinnacle are. We may not really need it though, in another 1-2 years, the retirements will begin again and the economy should be headed the right way. When this happens, they will scrapping for pilots at the regional level again and begging DAL to stop taking so many pilots each month.

Good point. I'm not sure Republic is gonna be around in the DCI portfolio. Rumor at F9 is that Republic is saying there will be a full integration of seniority lists if the buyout happens. That's just scuttlebutt, so don't take it as fact. My guess is, however, that all money flows to Republic Inc....DAL isn't gonna like financing a competitor...and you know Yonited won't either.

We did see quite a bit of attrition after Inc. bought us. A lot of extremely senior folks (20 years+) left and went to Virgin America, SouthWest, Delta, Emirates and Cathay Pacific.

I agree, about the growth. We need to grow, so does all our competitors. There will be some changes coming for the better (finally), I think. We will see!

Trojan

 

[Speedtape]

Lets put it this way. SKW is coming up to a benchmark in their contract with DAL. It is going to be very interesting to see how things go after October. A lot of airplanes are in play.

You have some of your facts wrong.

October will not determine anything. At least, not this October.

 

[JoeMerchant]

I have never seen the perception of ALPA as bad as it is now here at ASA...You ALPA cheerleaders have your work cut out for you....

ALPA Cheerleader--Guilty as accused, mainly because of the good work that YOU and others after you have done! Most of the perception is caused by the fact that there is no growth due to the downturn in the economy. When there is growth, upgrades, and hiring at majors, attitudes are GREAT!

The "great work" that was achieved is of no use if your job can be transferred to a fellow "union brother"....Even our fellow "union brothers" at the mainline are starting to undercut us to "recapture" the flying...."Recapture" is the union accepted way of undercutting....If we do it is "undercutting" or "stealing"....If the mainline pilots do it, then it is called "recapturing"...Gotta love semantics....

I can't disagree with some of your post, just as you can't disagree with mine. However, I will disagree that there is no need for ALPA today. Contrary, there is more need today, than ever before. The need is protection from our Company, and from ALPA.

I am interested in what you mean here...I think I know, and that is the only reason I am open to still remaining in ALPA....however that is a heck of a way to run a union...What are you inferring here?

In the meantime: "Two, four, six, eight, who do we appreciate???ALPA--(and maybe even the work of the RJDC to some degree--Rah,Rah, Ray!)

Do you really think the RJDC helped us here? If so, what does that say about a union that you have to sue to protect your own interests?

 

[JoeMerchant]

IMHO, there is no basis for a grievance on red arrow days.

What is a red arrow day? It's no different than the light that comes on when you are low on gas in your car. It is simply an indication that reserves are near or at the minimum for that day and that as a result, "a swap MAY not be approved due to minimum coverage." It's that simple.

What part of the contract does it violate? The Company has clearly stated that they will not staff this airline to accommodate swaps. Why should they? They have an airline to run.

Why are we grieving it then?

 

[JoeMerchant]

There is a lot of blame to go around at ALPA. There has been bad leadership and bad decisions.

The first step is admitting you have a problem...that is progress...What are some of the bad decisions and leadership that you have seen?

One last thing, you cannot ignore the fact that ALPA has helped make your profession safer. That in itself should be reason enough to be a part of ALPA, so that you are more likely to make it home after every trip. As I write, ALPA is working to make us all safer. Your welcome.

Now it's getting deep in here....I'm supposed to actually believe that I owe it to ALPA that I am more likely to make it home after each trip? Now you are reaching....Spare me.....

 

[JoeMerchant]

Most businesses and institutions have a facade on front to project a desired image or brand--because perception is everything. However, what's behind the facade is usually quite different than perception.

....and that includes ALPA....would you not agree?