Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

Delta Pilots Association - DPA

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web
Count this 12 yr+ pilot as having scope #1 priority.
That being said, I think that the latest uproar is blown out of proportion. I certainly do not like it either, but feel that the fownside of a loss in arbitration was unacceptable as a risk.

Count me also in as one who does not want to bring Compass, Comair, Mesaba on the list. My hugely scientific poll, meaning asking my f/os from these places, indicates that there is still a large gap in wage, quality of life, and retirement that needs to be closed prior to hauling everyone on board and then closing the gap with my negotiating captial.

Thatbeing said, I am all in favor of bringing in 70 seat scope in C12K and striking over it.

Thoughts from a middle guy.

Just the fact you're on here or any other airline forum says something about you. It says you are at least somewhat involved in your career.

I guesstimate for every 1 pilot that reads forums, tries to get at current info about the company, etc. there are 5 that don't have a clue (nor care). I talk to senior guys all the time that have NEVER been on an aviation related forum on the computer. Master Craft ski boat forums?...hell yes, airline forums?, no.

I remember flying with a senior captain in early 2003 as a senior FO and asked him how long he thought it would take to get everyone back on the property. He looked at me with a straight face and said, "we have guys on furlough?"
 
Since we are talking about the junior/senior debate, here is a question for the senior guys. What has alpa done in the past decade to protect the "senior" pilots?

Also the argument that senior guys don't care about scope relief because they aren't effected doesn't work because not all senior guys are on the widebody aircraft. Every pilot is effected negatively in one way or another when scope is relaxed and flying is outsourced.

Also this discussion isn't just about scope either. It's about alpa and the cookie jars. They can't represent dal or any pilot group for that matter, as long as we are pinned against one another. Delta pilots need representation that works for us and the issues that effect us as a group.

As long as alpa represents the regionals and the mainline groups, there will always be a conflict of interest and we will never get the most out of our union. I truly hope that alpa can refocus but until they combine the cookies or reduce the choices their will always be a conflict of interests.
 
Count me also in as one who does not want to bring Compass, Comair, Mesaba on the list. My hugely scientific poll, meaning asking my f/os from these places, indicates that there is still a large gap in wage, quality of life, and retirement that needs to be closed prior to hauling everyone on board and then closing the gap with my negotiating captial.

I would put Compass in a different category. They are represnted in the Delta MEC with a non-voting member. An analogy, although imperfect, is that they are a DALPA protectorate, much like Guam is and Alaska was a U.S. protectorate. We have a unique relationship with Compass that we do not share with other DCI carriers.
 
Last edited:
The fact that DAL is now so large also give the group more total pull in the national structure.

Super, if you feel passionately about scope, maybe you need to get involved a little bit. Maybe an idea for a resolution at a council meeting?

You had formerly claimed to be a student of Occam's Razor, but this current thread doesn't sound much like that..
 
I would put Compass in a different category. They are represnted in the Delta MEC with a non-voting member. An analogy, although imperfect, is that they are a DALPA protectorate, much like Guam is and Alaska was a U.S. protectorate. We have a unique relationship with Compass that we do not share with other DCI carriers.

Not too much of a protectorate. More like what did the cat drag in - and I hear the sentiment is to cut them loose to form their own MEC ASAP. How long after that do you think they will attempt to rewrite the flow portion of their contract and thereby weaken furlough protection at DAL?
 
Since we are talking about the junior/senior debate, here is a question for the senior guys. What has alpa done in the past decade to protect the "senior" pilots?

Also the argument that senior guys don't care about scope relief because they aren't effected doesn't work because not all senior guys are on the widebody aircraft. Every pilot is effected negatively in one way or another when scope is relaxed and flying is outsourced.

Also this discussion isn't just about scope either. It's about alpa and the cookie jars. They can't represent dal or any pilot group for that matter, as long as we are pinned against one another. Delta pilots need representation that works for us and the issues that effect us as a group.

As long as alpa represents the regionals and the mainline groups, there will always be a conflict of interest and we will never get the most out of our union. I truly hope that alpa can refocus but until they combine the cookies or reduce the choices their will always be a conflict of interests.

I'm no ALPA National cheerleader believe me. My big contention was getting force fed age 65. I have absolutely no intention of flying professionally into my 60's.

My point was that given the numbers, there are enough guys senior enough that know (no matter how they feel about particular issues) that the doors would have to close at the airline before they ever see the street again.

That is a huge influence on decision making.

Besides that there ARE a lot of ALPA cheerleaders at the combined company (from both sides).

As for your direct question, ALPA is a good union for the screw ups...the guys who have there own chair with their name embroidered on it in the CP's office they're there so much.

Virtually impossible to successfully vote ALPA out of the new Delta.
 
Heyas,

Throwing ALPA out at DAL would make no difference. You'd have the same people running for office at whatever union took it's place.

At NWA, we took a lot of heat for our internal conflicts, but it served as an important check and balance to the kind of crap that just happened.

Maybe now the MEM/SEA/ANC reps will get onboard with the DTW reps.

For the fDAL guys...go to LEC meetings, and vote for the people who represent your interests. If there aren't any, then YOU run and lot's of people like what you have to say, then you will get elected.

Nu
 
What is the true problem here? ALPA National didn't agree to the grievance settlement that you're pissed off about, Captain Moak did. ALPA National didn't let it happen, your status reps did. Talk to your status reps and see why they allowed this to happen. If they don't give you a good answer, then recall them.
 
Why does EVERYONE want to do nothing until a crises occurs?

Proactivity and being involved in your career is not an old concept. The problem isn't National or DALPA....

Look in the mirror....

If you get a new brand of union, and continue with apathy, it is not going to solve your problems.

Question: has USAPA proved to be a better deal for USAIR pilots?

Pilots constantly expect to NOT vote and participate and complain that their needs are not met.

First off... representation erodes rights. If you actually did vote for a representative, you diminish your OWN representation and rights. Simply because you are not at every meeting to speak up for yourself.

But you want the convenience of representation so you don't HAVE to attend every meeting.


The problem with our democracy system in our unions (and Country) is not the Brand Name of the Democracy...

It is the lack of involvement of the very people that democracy is supposed to represent....
 

Latest resources

Back
Top