Delta 717's

[jonjuan]

I fully understand 'global'. You need more than one fleet type, that's a given. Five, even six would work. Ten is insane and a huge drag on the bottom line. (read 10 training events for 1 retirement). Parts? Forget about it.

How do you know there will be 10 training events for every retirement? Do you really think they'll have 8,000 training events per year 10 years from now when 800 guys hit 65?

 

[dalad]

Looking at your trips, you are junior in NYC (so bad example), you get what you bid pal!

Well, in the 190's out of 309. Look at the NYC bid package, the top 50 get the best international trips.

 

[General Lee]

Hey dummy, what % of pilots hold 777 CA vs 73 ca at SWA? Bet you love making 100K less than your buds at SWA.

Hey dummy, first of all, the 744, 777, A330, and 764 make more per hour than your 737, and the 757/767 passes it in 2015. Then, how many SWA FOs will still be FOs for years with fewer retirements scheduled for years? DL will retire 700 or more per year for a few in a row at the end of this decade. That will cause huge upward movement, while SWA stagnates. And DL will pay more at the same time, with Greenslips handed out due to lack of pilots. You lose idiot. Btw, my friends at SWA are FOs, and they are considering DL when hiring starts because their upgrades were bumped a few more years due to the AT merger. DL's VP of Flt Ops stated they could hire 7000 in the next decade.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Whataburger]

Hey dummy, first of all, the 744, 777, A330, and 764 make more per hour than your 737, and the 757/767 passes it in 2015.


Bye Bye---General Lee

GENERAL CHEESE,

Here we go again! You are accidentally distorting the deails to back up your bull$^%&. I will type slowly so you can u-n-d-e-r-s-t-a-n-d. The higher $$$/hr at Mother Delta still adds up to a s-m-a-l-l-e-r payecheck.

10 YR FOs:

Yes, in the 747/777/787 you make more PER HR. 767-4 and 330 by $1.

747/777 is $157. Multiplied by 85/month is $13,300.
787 is $151. Multiplied by 85/month is $12,800.
767-4/330 is $149. Multiplied by 85/month is $12,665.

***Newsflash*** IF YOU COMBINE ALL YOUR 747s AND YOUR 777s AND YOUR 787s, AND YOUR 767-4s: ITS A WHOPPING 55 AIPLANES.

Nice job hauling passengers to Africa for $1 more per hr that we haul folks to LBB!! Your negotiatiors must be really, really proud of themselves!

Speaking of negotiating. Seems like the pilots who fly the smaller planes really got the shaft. Looks like all the $$$ is going to the SubCommanders who fly the top 55 coolest planes? Smells ALPA-ee to me.

JUST FOR FUN:

DAL 737-7 and -8 = $126. Multiplied by 85/month $10,710.

SWA 737-3-5-7-8 = $148. Multiplied by 85/month $12,580. I must say though that our Oct lines when bulit AVERAGE 95 ($14,060.) Our Comapany-wide average looking back after we tinker with our lines is 107 ($15,835.)

Then there is that little monthly intangible we have here at ole Southwestern Trailways - STABILITY AND SECURITY. Bet you would have bought some of that (and not paid for it) over the last decade if it were for sale?

Spend some time in LBB, those ole boys will learn you a few things about how to treat others, telling the truth, and keeping your word.

Keep your head in the sand.

Enjoy the riots in Africa!!

ps. Thanks for helping me blow some time on my rainy day. I honestly and sincerely hope DAL makes $1,000/hr on all aircraft on your next contract. I hope you get your 7000 new hires, and that you are the launch customer for the Boeing 797-9. Our companies are light years apart on all aspects except for flying airplanes. You bash SWA constantly, and almost everything you say is wrong. You are like the 51 year old drunk guy at the end of a bar that came to watch the football game also. After 5 beers, he wont shut the F$#K up, and you want to knock his teeth out and wash them down with some Coors Banquet. But you don't do it because it's a waste of good beer!

I imagine being a childish prick here helps you swollow what had become of Delta between 1998 and 2008. From industry leading EVERYTHING to Tail End Charlie. That must suck! I bet having hundreds or even thousands of furloughs, massive pay cuts, massive downgrades, and a managerial merry-go-round causes huge stress due to the unknown. Looks like DAL has started to turn the corner. That is AWESOME as you like to say.

You provide some good info here which proves you can be an adult and contribute to a conversation, but instead you choose to be a little b!tch every chance you get.

We have all found a tolerable way to put beans on the table. :beer:

 

[DTW320]

***Newsflash*** IF YOU COMBINE ALL YOUR 747s AND YOUR 777s AND YOUR 787s, AND YOUR 767-4s: ITS A WHOPPING 55 AIPLANES.

***Newsflash*** You forgot the 32 A330's that pay the same as the 767-4's. So a WHOPPING 87 "AIPLANES". Also, just for fun, don't forget that since those "AIPLANES" only fly international, add $4.50/hr to the rates for that 10 year FO. So, 1/1/13 pay = $175/hr for 777/747, and $164/hr for 764/330.

Enjoy your 107 hrs/month. You can have that s#@t.

You must have a LOT of "rainy days"...

 

[dicko]

. Delta is a global megacarrier with a need for different aircraft for different missions.

Would you advise Lufthansa or Air France to operate a single fleet type?

So, the only choice is 'one of everything' like Delta, or only one type ? How about a rationalized fleet ?

Air France, and Lufty are both losing gobs of money. They are both classic examples of "global mega carriers", with too much debt and too many types. Sound familiar ?

 

[texman]

Emerits will blow DELTA away in the global markets. Service and all. GL you sound like a little kid. You will be a captain some day it's ok. No stress.

 

[General Lee]

GENERAL CHEESE,

Here we go again! You are accidentally distorting the deails to back up your bull$^%&. I will type slowly so you can u-n-d-e-r-s-t-a-n-d. The higher $$$/hr at Mother Delta still adds up to a s-m-a-l-l-e-r payecheck.

10 YR FOs:

Yes, in the 747/777/787 you make more PER HR. 767-4 and 330 by $1.

747/777 is $157. Multiplied by 85/month is $13,300.
787 is $151. Multiplied by 85/month is $12,800.
767-4/330 is $149. Multiplied by 85/month is $12,665.

***Newsflash*** IF YOU COMBINE ALL YOUR 747s AND YOUR 777s AND YOUR 787s, AND YOUR 767-4s: ITS A WHOPPING 55 AIPLANES.

Nice job hauling passengers to Africa for $1 more per hr that we haul folks to LBB!! Your negotiatiors must be really, really proud of themselves!

Speaking of negotiating. Seems like the pilots who fly the smaller planes really got the shaft. Looks like all the $$$ is going to the SubCommanders who fly the top 55 coolest planes? Smells ALPA-ee to me.

JUST FOR FUN:

DAL 737-7 and -8 = $126. Multiplied by 85/month $10,710.

SWA 737-3-5-7-8 = $148. Multiplied by 85/month $12,580. I must say though that our Oct lines when bulit AVERAGE 95 ($14,060.) Our Comapany-wide average looking back after we tinker with our lines is 107 ($15,835.)

Then there is that little monthly intangible we have here at ole Southwestern Trailways - STABILITY AND SECURITY. Bet you would have bought some of that (and not paid for it) over the last decade if it were for sale?

Spend some time in LBB, those ole boys will learn you a few things about how to treat others, telling the truth, and keeping your word.

Keep your head in the sand.

Enjoy the riots in Africa!!

ps. Thanks for helping me blow some time on my rainy day. I honestly and sincerely hope DAL makes $1,000/hr on all aircraft on your next contract. I hope you get your 7000 new hires, and that you are the launch customer for the Boeing 797-9. Our companies are light years apart on all aspects except for flying airplanes. You bash SWA constantly, and almost everything you say is wrong. You are like the 51 year old drunk guy at the end of a bar that came to watch the football game also. After 5 beers, he wont shut the F$#K up, and you want to knock his teeth out and wash them down with some Coors Banquet. But you don't do it because it's a waste of good beer!

I imagine being a childish prick here helps you swollow what had become of Delta between 1998 and 2008. From industry leading EVERYTHING to Tail End Charlie. That must suck! I bet having hundreds or even thousands of furloughs, massive pay cuts, massive downgrades, and a managerial merry-go-round causes huge stress due to the unknown. Looks like DAL has started to turn the corner. That is AWESOME as you like to say.

You provide some good info here which proves you can be an adult and contribute to a conversation, but instead you choose to be a little b!tch every chance you get.

We have all found a tolerable way to put beans on the table. :beer:

Whatajoke,

Nice diatribe. You don't know what individual pilots make. You just don't. Some trade trips for more cash, some want to fly low. The INTL widebody guys also get additional money for INTL override, which is not reflected in the pay scale, and more per diem. Also, the INTL widebodies have more pilots per plane than your 737s, because the flights are longer, and layovers longer. And you convienently forgot that the thousands of 757/767 pilot will beat your rates by 2015, and with INTL override and per diem probably already do. Heck, you just forgot? You lose, you do. Not all of your guys get the top pay, especially during your slow periods.

One more thing, DL pilots get additional money every paycheck via a DC fund. (guys who dont actually get a pension (FNWA senior pilots)). It isn't their own 401K, it's separate. There is a 2% matching with the 401K, but then there is an additional 11% (soon to be 12%) of whatever they make into a separate account. You guys have to contribute 9% before you get a match. That means you take home 9% less to get that match. Not at DL. You can contribute zero on your own and still get 13%, soon to be 14%. So, add the 13% and you really lose. The only way to compare accurately is posted payrates, because not everyone flies the max. Sorry.

And I still haven't been to Africa, but you go to LBB. With consolidation occurring, there will be fewer legacies, meaning stronger legacies who can keep fares higher, also thanks to your own fare hikes. Enjoy stagnation.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Emerits will blow DELTA away in the global markets. Service and all. GL you sound like a little kid. You will be a captain some day it's ok. No stress.

Emirates (that is how you spell it) mainly flies people to India and Pakistan via Dubai from the States. People don't go to Europe, South America, or Asia from here via Dubai. Too far. So, they do well to Dubai and those other countries, but not really others. Some countries have already restricted their flying because it has hurt their own national airlines. Canada restricts Emirates to 3 flights a week to Toronto on a 380. Germany and France restrict them to a certain number of cities per country. I don't think they will be able to place 90 A380s and 100 777-300ERs places if other countries start to restrict them too. It might happen here if certain people were in the White House. We'll see...




Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[GogglesPisano]

So, the only choice is 'one of everything' like Delta, or only one type ? How about a rationalized fleet ?

Air France, and Lufty are both losing gobs of money. They are both classic examples of "global mega carriers", with too much debt and too many types. Sound familiar ?

LH is profitable http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...-half-profit-28-as-cost-cuts-take-effect.html

I agree to some extent. A rationalized fleet would be all-Boeing or all-Bus to start with. Something like CAL had pre-merger. But US legacies, DAL and NWA in particular, have historically disliked fleet discipline and gone on shopping sprees for used aircraft when they're in the mood. Some of DAL's purchases in the 90's under Mullen were pretty stupid.

Sometimes opportunities present themselves that look good in the short run (a great deal on 717's or 737-900ER's) but will become expensive in the long run.

Ten years from now I'd like to see DAL have:

777-300's (to replace the whales) and 777-200's
Either the 787 or A350
And a narrowbody domestic fleet consisting solely of (preferably) A320neo series or 737max series aircraft.

 

[GogglesPisano]

Right now we don't compete with Emirates (which is fortunate for us.) This is due to geography. The only US markets they tap are US-eastern Africa and US-Indian sub-continent. They are a much bigger threat to the European legacies.

If cabotage rules change and they can start flying US-Europe we are in big trouble. You can't compete with their cost structure or level of service. Of course, extreme cabotage changes would allow Ryanair to fly within the US, at which point this career will officially by flushed.

 

[DTW320]

***Newsflash*** You forgot the 32 A330's that pay the same as the 767-4's. So a WHOPPING 87 "AIPLANES". Also, just for fun, don't forget that since those "AIPLANES" only fly international, add $4.50/hr to the rates for that 10 year FO. So, 1/1/13 pay = $175/hr for 777/747, and $164/hr for 764/330.

Enjoy your 107 hrs/month. You can have that s#@t.

You must have a LOT of "rainy days"...

Forgot to mention: DL also has 58 767-300ER's in addition to the 87 "super premium widebodies" and 1,950 F/O's that fly them. 1/1/13 pay = $150/hr intl. +14% DC as GL mentioned. Sure, it would be great if they made more...true for ALL of us on here...but, seriously, you think it's valid to try to belittle 747/777 FO's making over $200k (including DC) and literally thousands of other WB FO's at DL making $175k? You think that's some kind of loser career position these days? Wow.

 

[freightdogfred]

Spend some time in LBB, those ole boys will learn you a few things about how to treat others, telling the truth, and keeping your word.
:beer:

Boy that's a good one. Ya'll been a-learnin us lots bout that.

 

[waveflyer]

Really dumb thread for a while now
So since y'all are repeating yourself- I will too-
Delta is a fantastic career if you fall into it, pursue it til you get it, or choose it over a Swa or FedEx. So is swa, but in different ways. No matter how it happens, life is good. My critique of delta is only about short-sighted outsourcing, and I'm still hopeful that'll get reigned in -
Have I mentioned how dumb this thread is

 

[Whataburger]

You think that's some kind of loser career position these days? Wow.

I never said or implied that. Wow!

 

[texman]

Right now we don't compete with Emirates (which is fortunate for us.) This is due to geography. The only US markets they tap are US-eastern Africa and US-Indian sub-continent. They are a much bigger threat to the European legacies.

If cabotage rules change and they can start flying US-Europe we are in big trouble. You can't compete with their cost structure or level of service. Of course, extreme cabotage changes would allow Ryanair to fly within the US, at which point this career will officially by flushed.

^^^^^^^^^This hear is the bigger issue! It could happen.

 

[General Lee]

^^^^^^^^^This hear is the bigger issue! It could happen.

Rigt now, not really. We do have "open skies" with certain countries, like Australia, but Emirates and Qantas just did a partnership that will probably preserve their most highly coveted rotes, and for Qantas that is Australia to LAX. Other than that, most of the big airports are slot controlled or have very little room to grow. Europe to the US? Nah, that economy isn't doing great. Unlikely in the near future. It still bears watching, and this upcoming election could help keep cabotage out longer. That is why current consolidation is important. The 3 large legacies need to become more profitable to help compete against the Emirates and Singapores of the world. More profits mean legacies can buy newer and bigger planes, improve the product, etc. I think that is the current thinking.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[redflyer65]

Rigt now, not really. We do have "open skies" with certain countries, like Australia, but Emirates and Qantas just did a partnership that will probably preserve their most highly coveted rotes, and for Qantas that is Australia to LAX. Other than that, most of the big airports are slot controlled or have very little room to grow. Europe to the US? Nah, that economy isn't doing great. Unlikely in the near future. It still bears watching, and this upcoming election could help keep cabotage out longer. That is why current consolidation is important. The 3 large legacies need to become more profitable to help compete against the Emirates and Singapores of the world. More profits mean legacies can buy newer and bigger planes, improve the product, etc. I think that is the current thinking.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Agree 100% General. All BS aside, I'd much rather see you guys fly it than some other foreign low cost carrier. Definitely could be a problem down the road.

 

[Whataburger]

Whatajoke,

.

1. You guys have to contribute 9% before you get a match.

2. That means you take home 9% less to get that match. So, add the 13% and you really lose.

3. The only way to compare accurately is posted payrates...

4. because not everyone flies the max.




Bye Bye---General Lee

1. Simply not true.

2. Simply not true.

3. Simply not true.

4. True.

You claim to have a friend at SWA. Find some truths and report back to me when you get over your jet lag.

 

[General Lee]

1. Simply not true.

2. Simply not true.

3. Simply not true.

4. True.

You claim to have a friend at SWA. Find some truths and report back to me when you get over your jet lag.

So, correct me Whatajoke. Do you have a DC fund that is independent of your own contribution? (nope). How about INTL override? Wait, your AT brethren do the INTL flights. I'd call my SWA buddy and ask him, but he is too exhausted to answer the phone after his 18 leg 4 day am trip.


Bye Bye---General Lee