Crappy Pay Offered At Nja

[old*art]

Hang on

Ok both sides listen to me ..... what you are seeing is a glimpse into big time power negotiating. Each side stakes out a preposterous position and then waits for the other to blink. This is not about chump change - it is about big dollars and people's lives, salary standards for a maturing industry and efficiencies of operation, huge egos and each side using the legal tools at their disposal. (Flying by the rules for pilots and the threat of hostages by the company) In any "war" there are innocent bystanders - read NJ support personnel - who are frightened by the sounds of "war" ... and even sometimes suffer collateral casualties. Just remember one thing however - nobody got on the Mayflower looking for 30 yrs and a gold watch. This is America and you can go do something else if egos - on both sides - kill this place. (Did I give myself away completely ??) But everyone hang on .. cause the ride is just beginning.

 

[Cavpilot]

Fozzy - 3 years
Hogprint - 3.5 years
Abenaki - 3 years
Just Peachy - 3 years
Mach92 - 3.5 years
beytzim - 3.5 years - if he hadnt left in june

Nice try dude. But you are WRONG! How about me? Care to guess how long I've been at NetJets? Here is a hint...more than two years, but less than nine. Please do not reply until the buzz has worn off.

 

[FAcFriend]

Ok, so noone asked - but I have to say-
Family Guy if you are in a position to find out who everyone is here, then I think 1. you should pass on playing and or 2. at least keep it to yourself.

this is an anonymous forum. People come here to speak their minds and debate, and pass some time. (obviously I have been bored lately)

Are you going to try to figure out who i am?

I hope not. What difference does it make. We are all working to the same end. resolution

 

[TheTruthCMH]

We are all working to the same end. resolution

Now THAT is the TRUTH!

The Truth Hurts

TTC

 

[FamilyGuy]

Wow...people have been here three whole months and they contributed....What the hell....give them $100,000 as well. Who cares if the company can afford it

Now, where did you get the $100,000 figure? I won't negotiate with you on this board, as we have very capable personnel doing that for us. However, I will state we would never ask for $100,000 for a three month employee. Good spin though.

What's this? A pilot who's not familiar with sarcasm?

A little hint for you...if you hold your cursor over the smilie for 2 seconds it will even tell you it is sarcasm.....

I just took your argument to its logical conclusion...you want to argue that there are 3 month employee's that contribute...so if that's the sole criteria why not pay them $100k as well? After all, we dont care if the company can afford it - we'll just charge the owners more! (hint - this is more sarcasm)

Next, as you would have known had you been here more than two years, we were indeed aware of what the pay was when we came here. We were also aware of what we were promised by RTS himself prior to you coming to this once great company. Ask around, do some research, and please get facts before trying to explain your very weak, union busting spun argument.

Ahh...the infamous RTS speech....so what figure did RTS promise you? (exact number please)

What figure did your union build it up to over the last 4 years?

It seems to me that you're the victim of inflated expectations.

I've watched people pump up the expected payday for the last 4 years on this board....to the point that any reasonable offer by the company is quickly scoffed at because it suffers in comparison to that 100% increase you've convinced yourselves that you deserve.

Next, relevance should equal contributions expected. Example, pay should be commensurate with responsibility (read safety, customer service, fixing owner service's lies). This is where the management 101 books would help you. I seem to remember you barraging someone else on this board about missing class.

I'm glad you brought this up steel. If you had been paying attention you would realize that I addressed this topic just 3 short days ago in this post:

The overall point is that LIFE IS NOT FAIR. If we are going to pay all jobs according to levels of responsibility then in my opinion, none of us would make more money than teachers, police officers, and fire fighters. No athlete or CEO would make more money than the President of the United States. Our military would make more money than it does. The list is very long.......

Now...seeing as how our pilots average pay exceeds teachers, police officers, and firefighters, I'm sure you will be willing to live up to your own words and donate all of your excess salary to charity.....right?

Oh, and by the way, it also means you wont need that REASONABLE raise the company offered you....right?

Next, your economic storm (your words) only decreased our increasing capture rate of the market share. I have a clue that you are trying to spin this into pro company stance. I will not put words in your mouth; however, I will state we have been hiring nonstop right through the “economic downturn”. We have also been taking delivery of new airplanes nonstop right through this "economic downturn". The only economic storm I see is manmade by the great NetJets' management team. Tell me again how hiring union busting firms to fight off the inevitable makes sense?

Thank you for proving my point. Go back and read my post again if you have to in order to comprehend it.

The gist is that NetJets provided you and many other pilots a safe haven from the worst economic storm in aviation history. And how do you want to repay that safe haven? By attempting ECONOMIC BLACKMAIL on the company that sheltered you.

Lastly, assuming things never gets anyone anywhere. Facts will however, help to see right through your spin about sell offs. I just wrote sell-offs, and you try and spin it to selling off trips due to DNIFs (duties not including flight). I was writing about the financial genius who sold off the core fleet. We oversold our capacity overnight. This is just one of the “foolish financial decisions” I have seen in my short tenure here (read my short tenure is much longer than Family Guy’s).

You're right....FACTS WILL HELP EVERYONE SEE THROUGH YOUR SPIN....

You want to claim that the increased sell-offs are due to the sold off core, yet the FACTS do not back you up.

Take a look at a day last week - we have 325 revenue flights for NJA, and 359 NJA aircraft, but we sell off 40 flights....hmmm...I wonder why?

Its definitely not due to overwhelming demand....but I think increased DNIF and mx write-ups played a role....

Now that we've dispensed with your attempts to sidetrack the conversation.... lets get back to the topic at hand.

I noticed you side-stepped the heart of my question in the original post, namely -

• What makes a 3 year employee think they are owed anything?
• Where does this sense of entitlement come from? They didnt build this company. They weren't here for the last contract. They weren't even here when it became amendable.
• Why should a 40+ year old company mortgage its future and cave into the demands of a bunch of 3 year employees that are just looking for a quick payday before they jump ship and try to bankrupt another company?

 

[FamilyGuy]

Your a tool Family Guy.

Go home to your but buddy and make some noise.

And you're (notice the correct spelling) a great ambassador for the union....keep it up.

I'm sure you'll have people falling all over themselves to associate themselves with someone of such fine, upstanding character....

 

[Fracster]

Your attitude and arrogance is a slap in the face to every long tenured employee who wants to make a career here.

Come to think of it, it appears that many of the ardent union supporters on this board are relative newcomers to NetJets....Lets take a roll call and see:

You're some company lemming/lackey who couldn't get a job anywhere else, thats why you are still here. What do you do any how?

As for the ardent union supporters we got sick and tired of being abused and under paid for our services. We refused to play the arse kissing "A" team game NJA is famous or infamous for. The 3 to 5 year guys/gals have done more for this company than any of the 7, 8 or 9 year people. The new blood has tried to make this company more efficient and finacialy responsible. Have a problem, throw money at it has always been NJA's motto. The new and intelligent people at this company recognized that in this unstable downturn you speak of that a company of this size needed to be more fiscally responsible. What was NutJets response? We dont need your help.
I am so thankful to know I will be leaving NJA very soon. If I have to see or speak to another idiot like you or the other "company" people on this board Im going to be sick, or, take a swing!

 

[FamilyGuy]

Oh I didn't know that you had no opinion unless you were here "X" amount of years. Sorry, I will log off now.

Why do I argue with a person who is unable to do my job or vote on the contract.

Nop can't do it. Tools (because you are all the same). Yup been here 3ish years. I am glad you have been taking notes. I guess you earned your pay. Now stick your spin up your ass. I do have an opinion. I have every right to affect change at NJA. I am doing it every single day. I also plan on making this place a career. So I know full well what our actions can do to my future at NJA.

And with all that said, I still say burn her down if we do not get a fair contract. And what is fair is decided by the pilot group and only the pilot group.

So go ahead and babble about how I have not been here long enough. I guess that is the flavor of the day. It is crap and we all know it. 1 month to 14 years, every pilot has 1 vote. We all pay dues so we all have the ability to affect what our Union does. That is something that you will never have. And that is the truth.

Ahhhh....another fine ambassador for the union....

Of course you have an opinion....and you are entitled to it.

I served my country for over 8 years so that you could have your opinion. I did that service not because I agree with your opinion, but because I believe in the fundamental idea and concepts put forth in our constitution and bill of rights.

But here's the kicker for you....and this is where you'll find the MISTAKE in your argument that NetJets should pay you what you want or you'll shut it down....

One of the basic tenets of America is that people are free to do what they want so long as it DOES NOT IMPINGE ON THE GREATER GOOD AND WELFARE OF OTHERS. This is why you have the right to free speech but you cant yell FIRE in a crowded theater....it is detrimental to the greater good and welfare of others.

Your argument to pay me what I want or STFD parallels this closely....we have a 3 year employee that is willing to bankrupt a company and destroy the lives of THOUSANDS of employees and family members because you think you are entitled to a 100% pay increase AND a $200,000 signing bonus.

Well guess what....most of us that have been here for far longer than that are more interested in building a career here. We were working here long before you came, and we'll be here long after you leave...so go pillage somewhere else....

 

[dukeofdub]

The new blood has tried to make this company more efficient and finacialy responsible. Have a problem, throw money at it has always been NJA's motto. The new and intelligent people at this company recognized that in this unstable downturn you speak of that a company of this size needed to be more fiscally responsible. What was NutJets response? We dont need your help.

Yes there have been a few good suggestions. And ten bad ones for every good one. Remember you are labor, not management. Teamsters....

 

[Diesel]

let's not distort the facts. 200k is for year 5 senority in retro pay.

I wonder if Duke ment two instead of to?

Anyways yes we are labor. Now that we got that figured out. What's next?