Crappy Pay Offered At Nja

[FamilyGuy]

"I understand this is a fine line and i can see both arguments, but why not do the regular audit and then ask the q's if you want more info."

Why? Because a majority of the pilots at NJA say the do not care about the audit. One, we do not believe the numbers. Two, our pay is linked to management fees. Not enough money, raise the fees.

So enough of this audit crap, it is just a waste of electrons. Pay us or shut the doors.

I've got to throw the BS flag on this.

Fozzy - you've been at NetJets for just 3 years. What makes you think you are owed anything? Where does this sense of entitlement come from? You didnt build this company. You weren't here for the last contract. You weren't even here when it became amendable.

No employee, pilot or non-pilot, is owed anything by a company after just 3 years. When you get to 20+ then maybe we can talk.

Lets face facts here...NetJets has provided you and many other pilots a safe haven from the worst economic storm the aviation world has ever seen. In the meantime many of our aviation colleagues have found themselves out on the street. Your response to that safe haven is economic blackmail. Pay me what I want or shut it down.

All you are looking for is the quick jackpot and then you can move on to someplace else. You apparently do not even care if NetJets can afford the pay package you are demanding. Where does a 3 year employee get off with this kind of an attitude?!?!

Executive Jet/NetJets has been in business for over 40 years. We didnt last this long by making foolish financial decisions. If you want a quick jackpot then you need to go play the lottery, cause it aint going to happen here. Why dont you move on to another company and try to bankrupt them?

Your attitude and arrogance is a slap in the face to every long tenured employee who wants to make a career here.

Come to think of it, it appears that many of the ardent union supporters on this board are relative newcomers to NetJets....Lets take a roll call and see:

Fozzy - 3 years
Hogprint - 3.5 years
Abenaki - 3 years
Just Peachy - 3 years
Mach92 - 3.5 years
beytzim - 3.5 years - if he hadnt left in june

I think I can see why everyone's so focused on that 5th year salary number....

 

[FamilyGuy]

Did you even stay awake in economics 101????

WTFO???

Its called supply and demand. We have more demand then product to deliver. Simple econ- raise the rates to match demand= equilebrium.

First two quarters we reported that income was UP $400,000,000.00 from same time last year. Let's see, project that out for the rest of the year and we will be $800,000,000.00 above what we made last year.. Like I said WTFO?? what don't you understand???

The company is allright with taking money and not having enough assets to cover flying, yet the egomniacs will not pay pilots. Pilots make airplane go from point A to B.

Like I said you should have stayed awake in class.

AMF

Did you stay awake in accounting 101?

Revenue does not equal Profit.

 

[FamilyGuy]

Just look at the recent AIN articles leaving NJA at the bottom of owner renewals.

No... Flex and Flight Options were at the bottom for owner renewals. NetJets was in second, just behind Citation Shares.

Flex and Flight Options were losing more people than they were signing up. NetJets and Citation Shares were gaining.

 

[FamilyGuy]

Let me also respond to the fact that the MMF's have been kept artifically low, it's called predatory pricing practices and is against federal law.

Now that it's all out WAR I think that this will come to light and you will now see a federal case coming down to bear. Can you say supeonas for BB, Shamtulli, Buffett, et el.?

There are over two thousand pilot witnesses to statements made by management to this fact in company recurrent class.

Bye by scum sucking management.

How many classes did you sleep through anyways? Or did you even go to school?

Predatory pricing occurs when you sell a product below cost. Selling it at a low margin doesnt meet the criteria.

I suspect from your rhetoric that you're another relatively low-time employee with NetJets looking for a quick payout. Why dont you move along to some other company and let us get back to the business we built of taking care of the owners...

 

[steel]

Family guy-



“Fozzy - you've been at NetJets for just 3 years. What makes you think you are owed anything? Where does this sense of entitlement come from? You didnt build this company. You weren't here for the last contract. You weren't even here when it became amendable.”



How much have you had to drink? Based on the knowledge exhibited in your posts, one can only deduce you have been here less than 5 years. How does one have the gall to decide who is what owed what with that “tenure”? Besides, we have a lot of great folks here who have contributed to this company while being here less than 1 year. Some have contributed with less than 3 months seniority. What does it matter how long one has been here? Duck, I just threw up a “union busting spin” BS flag! Get a clue, and please quit embarrassing yourself. In fact, go get yourself a management 101 book, something that delves into innovations. I believe you will be shocked (most people wouldn’t, but you’re really behind the power curve) when you see what great companies do to keep the innovations alive and well. It’s not just about coming up with an idea. It’s about making the idea better for all involved. It’s about providing relevance to employees to carry out the systems in place to execute the plan. In our case, we should be innovating to help both our internal and external customers understand why their presence is valuable.



“Lets face facts here...NetJets has provided you and many other pilots a safe haven from the worst economic storm the aviation world has ever seen. In the meantime many of our aviation colleagues have found themselves out on the street.”



So, it’s ok for you to compare the fractional industry to the airline industry now? Pick a side please.



“We didnt last this long by making foolish financial decisions.”



Please….sell offs anyone? Like I wrote, get a clue, and get some knowledge please.

 

[FamilyGuy]

Family guy-

“Fozzy - you've been at NetJets for just 3 years. What makes you think you are owed anything? Where does this sense of entitlement come from? You didnt build this company. You weren't here for the last contract. You weren't even here when it became amendable.”

How much have you had to drink? Based on the knowledge exhibited in your posts, one can only deduce you have been here less than 5 years. How does one have the gall to decide who is what owed what with that “tenure”? Besides, we have a lot of great folks here who have contributed to this company while being here less than 1 year. Some have contributed with less than 3 months seniority. What does it matter how long one has been here?

Wow...people have been here three whole months and they contributed....What the hell....give them $100,000 as well. Who cares if the company can afford it

Get a clue....people that have been here for only a couple of years or less should never be trying to hold a company hostage - threatening to shut down a 40+ year old company and destroying the jobs that it has created for thousands of families. All of these low time employees came here knowing full well what the pay was, what the situation was....and now they want to act holier than thou and try to convince the world that there's some big conspiracy against the employees at NetJets. Its a bunch of crap.

Everyone at NetJets has received exactly what the company has promised them - their wages and benefits.

And by the way an employee of 3 months had better be contributing to the company. If he isnt then he should be fired. (that obviously applies to everyone, regardless of time in service)

Family guy-

“Lets face facts here...NetJets has provided you and many other pilots a safe haven from the worst economic storm the aviation world has ever seen. In the meantime many of our aviation colleagues have found themselves out on the street.”

So, it’s ok for you to compare the fractional industry to the airline industry now? Pick a side please.

If you think this economic storm has only affected the airline side of the house then you are truly clueless.

“We didnt last this long by making foolish financial decisions.”

Please….sell offs anyone? Like I wrote, get a clue, and get some knowledge please.

So you think NetJets wants to be selling off at this rate? That this is the norm?

I guess it couldnt have anything to do with the increased DNIF rate, the increased break rate of the aircraft, and the lower productivity from disgruntled low time employees....

 

[steel]

Thank you for the quick, emotional and senseless reply.



Thank you for helping to make my point that you have not been here at NetJets, as part of OUR family, for any length of time.



Thank you for assuming things that I said, while putting a union busting spin on them.



Thank you for helping to unify this group of airmen.



Thank you!



Now, where did you get the $100,000 figure? I won't negotiate with you on this board, as we have very capable personnel doing that for us. However, I will state we would never ask for $100,000 for a three month employee. Good spin though.



Next, as you would have known had you been here more than two years, we were indeed aware of what the pay was when we came here. We were also aware of what we were promised by RTS himself prior to you coming to this once great company. Ask around, do some research, and please get facts before trying to explain your very weak, union busting spun argument.



Next, relevance should equal contributions expected. Example, pay should be commensurate with responsibility (read safety, customer service, fixing owner service's lies). This is where the management 101 books would help you. I seem to remember you barraging someone else on this board about missing class.



Next, your economic storm (your words) only decreased our increasing capture rate of the market share. I have a clue that you are trying to spin this into pro company stance. I will not put words in your mouth; however, I will state we have been hiring nonstop right through the “economic downturn”. We have also been taking delivery of new airplanes nonstop right through this "economic downturn". The only economic storm I see is manmade by the great NetJets' management team. Tell me again how hiring union busting firms to fight off the inevitable makes sense?



Lastly, assuming things never gets anyone anywhere. Facts will however, help to see right through your spin about sell offs. I just wrote sell-offs, and you try and spin it to selling off trips due to DNIFs (duties not including flight). I was writing about the financial genius who sold off the core fleet. We oversold our capacity overnight. This is just one of the “foolish financial decisions” I have seen in my short tenure here (read my short tenure is much longer than Family Guy’s).

 

[Bad Monkey!]

Your a tool Family Guy.

Go home to your but buddy and make some noise.

 

[Fozzy]

Oh I didn't know that you had no opinion unless you were here "X" amount of years. Sorry, I will log off now.

Why do I argue with a person who is unable to do my job or vote on the contract.

Nop can't do it. Tools (because you are all the same). Yup been here 3ish years. I am glad you have been taking notes. I guess you earned your pay. Now stick your spin up your ass. I do have an opinion. I have every right to affect change at NJA. I am doing it every single day. I also plan on making this place a career. So I know full well what our actions can do to my future at NJA.

And with all that said, I still say burn her down if we do not get a fair contract. And what is fair is decided by the pilot group and only the pilot group.

So go ahead and babble about how I have not been here long enough. I guess that is the flavor of the day. It is crap and we all know it. 1 month to 14 years, every pilot has 1 vote. We all pay dues so we all have the ability to affect what our Union does. That is something that you will never have. And that is the truth.

 

[CMHTroll]

I do have an opinion. I have every right to affect change at NJA. I am doing it every single day. I also plan on making this place a career. So I know full well what our actions can do to my future at NJA.

And with all that said, I still say burn her down if we do not get a fair contract. And what is fair is decided by the pilot group and only the pilot group.

I agree that you do have an opinion, and a right to try and change NJA for the better. And it is great that you want to make NJA your career. It does have many fine qualities as a company.

What the true variable is the value statement, "fair." And what may be though of as "fair" to the current group of pilots may not be feasable and have sustainable company. So you can say you want to burn it down, but what you want is a strong company to pay you wages for your career. When you come to that realization, and that you are just labor and do not run the company, then you will realize that you have to have realistic exoectation, in line with reality.