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Crappy Pay Offered At Nja

Just Peachy

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Our union has fought hard to increase our std of living... the company has fought equally hard to erase it. Here is an example of the companys " pay increase"

Im a 4th year captain. Next year I will get $60,984 ...with Mr. Moistures proposal, I will get $60,330. SOME RAISE ...

The company is using a matrix chart to screw the majority of the pilots. At 5 years of service, I'm in the 25 percentile portion of the chart. The company has skewed a normal curve so that the majority of the pilots ( 70% remain in the lower 40% of the chart, thus no or low payout over your current salary).

The bastard didnt even have the decency to post the WHOLE chart so the pilots could see where each stands. Our union had to post the company chart. The company puts out propaganda that only makes them look good. The details belong to the devil...

I will shut this f****r down rather than accept this crap. And it looks like a slow death for the company if they continue on the road to hell they are on now.
 

You're right

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Just Peachy said:
Our union has fought hard to increase our std of living... the company has fought equally hard to erase it. Here is an example of the companys " pay increase"

blah
blah
blah


I will shut this f****r down rather than accept this crap. And it looks like a slow death for the company if they continue on the road to hell they are on now.

Negotiating/bargaining does not mean "get everything" (ie. the highest level of your "6S"). If you truly believe this, go ahead, "shut'er down". I would bet a life savings, that this company will come back (albeit smaller) better, and with the very pilots that help build this company, not the current ex-airline, "I deserve the world...don't give a krap" attitude pilots. I yearn for the day, very soon, that I can roll my sleeves up again and focus on the "new company" and the future.

My only question is what in the heck will 1500+ of you all do now? 10% of the airline pilots are furloughed. Your resume boasts "shutdown a fractional company" (aka--"don't hire me") SOLID!! Good luck in your new careers--it won't be in flying. Maybe Dubinsky is hiring for the next "victims"? Maybe try Northwest? hmm, how about Delta?
 
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seethecircus

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help finding the truth

For the record I do work in the casino, but even I could read between the lines with the email that was sent out this morning. I could tell right away there was more to the story. And I am not trying to start a fight with anyone but could someone PM me with the rest of the chart and the todays pay scale. I have been reading this board for quite sometime and have stayed away from posting to keep from being called a company mole or tool or kool-aid drinker, but this afternoons email made me wonder just how bad the proposals are. And if it can be stated without trying to put a bullet in my head through the internet, can someone tell if what we saw up here is really what was asked for by the union.

It seems as though the two sides are miles apart based on the two emails today. I am just trying to get more information so I may draw my own conclusion on the truth.

Thanks
 

gear_guy

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Just Peachy said:
I will shut this f****r down rather than accept this crap. And it looks like a slow death for the company if they continue on the road to hell they are on now.

I wish you would. That would be one less company trying to convince mine to sell their airplanes. Bye bye
 

Hogprint

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Defend your boy now Geek Squad. Haven't heard from you in a couple of days.....
 

ghostrider64

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seethecircus said:
Thank you for being nonhostile and open to what is really happening...

I would post the scale but we are bound to not release info posted on our Billboard. For many obvious reasons...

But to partially answer your question...When you see the scales understand that both the future reserve schedule and the 7and7 schedules will require more days of work. On average this will require current 7and7 holders to work 1 extra day per month and those that accept the reserve schedule will work 18 days per month. So basically everyone will work 12-14 days more per year than they do now. Which is very near and extra month. If you think of it in those terms the scales no matter where you are in senority are not much of a payraise....
 

FAcFriend

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Peachy

Are you a captain or are you on bypass pay?

And I ask again, why is the union not posting the chart for all to see?

I want to see the whole chart.
 

squonk

Who is the gaucho, amigo?
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FAcFriend said:
Peachy

Are you a captain or are you on bypass pay?

And I ask again, why is the union not posting the chart for all to see?

I want to see the whole chart.

I'll ask you the same. Why is the company not releasing the WHOLE chart? The one you looked at today isn't the whole story.

Get with the other moles, and they can pull it up on 1108s site.
 

Just Peachy

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Matrix...FF

Im am a full fledged captain that made it thru the "indoc process" that the company squashes you thru. I was hired off the street as a captain from day one. And on that note, I was told by HR I would be getting Cpts pay right off the bat. HA! they left out one tiny detail, ya gotta pass the companys "captain ck ride". first.

Well thats no biggie... just another ATP FULL ride in the plane with stalls ( can you believe it) and engine cuts. Shish... aint these guys heard of simulators?? yeah I went thru FS and was typed first..

DUE TO COMPANY SCREWS UPS AND SUCH, THIS RIDE DIDNT HAPPEN FOR 3 MONTHS... And yes I passed it on the first try....many didnt, several went bye-bye

So I endured the lowly FO's pay for that time and I try to help my FO's ( especially the noobies) in getting extra pay. I really feel for those guys, all of which were told the same thing I was told ( from the union and mgmt) "hey we know you work hard and were going to get you more pay."

I would love to show you the matrix chart but as mentioned earlier, the union forbids any thing reposted from our board.

As I understand it ( direct from our MEC) the union wanted to post the pay charts, the company requested they not post. Then the company comes out 2 days later with a partial chart showing how the pilots turned down a fabulous raise looking at the 60 to 80 percentile portion only !.... of which I would guess only 15% of the pilots will fall in.

Thats when the union presented the whole chart.

The next 3 months will make or break this outfit... I was told today, that the next day after the announcement to the company by BB , that the union had got up and walked out, charters tripled ......................
 

FamilyGuy

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Just Peachy said:

The bastard didnt even have the decency to post the WHOLE chart so the pilots could see where each stands. Our union had to post the company chart. The company puts out propaganda that only makes them look good. The details belong to the devil...

I will shut this f****r down rather than accept this crap. And it looks like a slow death for the company if they continue on the road to hell they are on now.

I see a lot of posts on this board that indicate the pilots are looking for 100% raises. Now I see the company's letter that states in addition to a 100% raise you are demanding a $200,000 signing bonus per pilot.

You guys are quick to jump on here and denounce any offer that the company makes, yet I still have not seen your union come out and publish what you are seeking. Is it a 100% raise and $200,000 signing bonus?

Its easy to find something wrong with any published offer. The company has put theirs out and you are working to tear it apart.

Why dont you guys just come out and publicly state what you are seeking?

Or are you concerned that people will ridicule you once they learn the magnitude of what you are demanding?

Everyone knows that demanding a 100% raise and $200,000 signing bonus per pilot is not reasonable. Yet you want to bitch about the company's offers not being reasonable.

As I said yesterday in another thread:

Your union has negotiated improvements in most of the non-wage areas. These improvements cost the company money. If you want more money then I suggest that you go back and revisit some of the non-wage issues and identify some areas where you can give the company more flexibility so that they can give you more money. This business of wanting to cherry-pick the best features of the corporate world, fractional world, and airline world, is not realistic or sustainable. Buffett and Santulli realize this and are not willing to give in to unrealistic demands that will cripple the company.
 
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x402

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Its clear from the begining of negotiations 4 yrs age that the company doesn't want to pay us serious wages for the job we do at NJA.
This is bourne out in the last TA that was buried by 82% of the members last year. It is also shown in the latest offer on the table from the company, $3600.00 a year raise for 5th year PIC's. Now don't go run to the memo sent out by the company yesterday, there are NO 5th yr PIC in the >61%. They are spining numbers as usual.
So, have we asked for double our existing pay and 100% RETRO PAY? Sure we have and why not, you can be sure you will never get what you don't ask for, our negotiators remember, "YOU GUYS COULD HAVE DONE ALOT BETTER." We won't make that mistake again. This company is the private fifedome of Mr Santulli and he will have things his way at any cost. It's been very personal since we threw out the bootlicking 284 mec and they are forced to deal with a Union that is working for its membership.
 
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Hogprint

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The minister of misinformation said:

Its easy to find something wrong with any published offer. The company has put theirs out and you are working to tear it apart.

The company put out ONE section of the pay matrix.

I repeat. THE COMPANY ONLY PUT OUT ONE SECTION.

You know it was not the WHOLE matrix. Yes, I am working to tear this kind of misinformation apart.

It is interesting, wouldn't you agree, that NJA has the money to fight us, but not to pay us? Is this the MO of a BROKE company?
 
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dsptchrnja

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Hogprint said:
The minister of misinformation said:

The company put out ONE section of the pay matrix.

I repeat. THE COMPANY ONLY PUT OUT ONE SECTION.

You know it was not the WHOLE matrix. Yes, I am working to tear this kind of misinformation apart.

Until we see the whole thing, it's your word against theirs. They say it's a 33% increase over the current CBA you are working under. The information posted in the last few days is highly suspect.

Hogprint said:
It is interesting, wouldn't you agree, that NJA has the money to fight us, but not to pay us? Is this the MO of a BROKE company?

What costs more, paying to negotiate, or doubling 1,350 pilot salaries plus outrageous signing bonuses?
 

FamilyGuy

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Hogprint said:
The minister of misinformation said:



The company put out ONE section of the pay matrix.

I repeat. THE COMPANY ONLY PUT OUT ONE SECTION.

You know it was not the WHOLE matrix. Yes, I am working to tear this kind of misinformation apart.

It is interesting, wouldn't you agree, that NJA has the money to fight us, but not to pay us? Is this the MO of a BROKE company?

If you have the strength of conviction that your demands are fair, just, and reasonable, then why dont you put them out there for everyone to see?

Dont complain about the company not revealing all of their proposal when you are guilty of the same behavior.
 

squonk

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Company guys. The info you seek was provided to the company BEFORE THEIR proposal. If it is so egregious, why have they not posted our numbers in a comparison to theirs?

I bet if you look hard enough, there should be something floating around the crystal ship by now.
 

Fracster

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Enough
What I find funny is company lemmings and management think we actualy care about their opinion. As an NJA pilot I couldnt give 2 sh!ts whether some dispatcher/scheduler/owner service person knows me or likes me. Management wants to devide the troops. It doesnt matter either way. We have over 2000 pilots who want to make a living and opinions from the puzzle palace matter little to not at all.

We all get equally screwed by scheduling so we know this. Owner services throws us under the bus on a regulare basis and 99% of us are vindicated. Dispatch is dispatch, they arent out to screw up.

In the end their public trashing/devide and conquer tactics do nothing more than unite the pilot group. With each episode the group become more of a cohesive unit.
 

Turbinehead

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I have a better idea for you Peach and other WHINERS

Just Peachy said:
Our union has fought hard to increase our std of living... the company has fought equally hard to erase it. Here is an example of the companys " pay increase"

Im a 4th year captain. Next year I will get $60,984 ...with Mr. Moistures proposal, I will get $60,330. SOME RAISE ...

The company is using a matrix chart to screw the majority of the pilots. At 5 years of service, I'm in the 25 percentile portion of the chart. The company has skewed a normal curve so that the majority of the pilots ( 70% remain in the lower 40% of the chart, thus no or low payout over your current salary).

The bastard didnt even have the decency to post the WHOLE chart so the pilots could see where each stands. Our union had to post the company chart. The company puts out propaganda that only makes them look good. The details belong to the devil...

I will shut this f****r down rather than accept this crap. And it looks like a slow death for the company if they continue on the road to hell they are on now.

Why don't you STOP WHINING, get off your tuchus and FIND A BETTER PAYING JOB!!!!!

Thank you very muchly.

Turbine.

T
 

Diesel

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man turbine haven't heard from you in a while. Where you been?
 
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