Countdown to the CAL/UAL TA -- 45 days to go

[Stuka Luva]

I don't blame the scabs for anything at this point.

You have GOT to be kidding... Sounds like you'd scab out too if you had the chance.

 

[nimtz]

You have GOT to be kidding... Sounds like you'd scab out too if you had the chance.

Actually I'm glad to hear this thinking. Far too many CAL pilots blame our woes on the scabs. Time and demographics make that impossible. I'd rather have some kicking @sses amongst the line pilots who are mad, but unwilling to fight. After all they have golf club memberships in The Woodlands to think about. Speaking of which, how you been Sean Roth!?!

 

[densoo]

Actually I'm glad to hear this thinking. Far too many CAL pilots blame our woes on the scabs. Time and demographics make that impossible. I'd rather have some kicking @sses amongst the line pilots who are mad, but unwilling to fight. After all they have golf club memberships in The Woodlands to think about. Speaking of which, how you been Sean Roth!?!

The entire group has bought into to the "we can't win, so let's make the best of it" mentality. The attitude is pervasive.

Anyone following the talks betweeen UAL/CAL unions? The CAL group is on the verge of substituting their historic "working together" relationship with CAL management for a "working together" relationship with the UAL group. Different boss, same abuse.

 

[whatitdoing?]

As usual, the United side is coming to the table trying to run the show. They're not budging on the 744 pay category because they want a seniority grab. I say screw em, separate, and work on our own contract like Delta did. I'm tired of this attitude over at United.

 

[Yuppyguppy]

Seniority grab?? The seniority will be determined by the arbitrator...like it or not. I have heard about the 744 issue but don't have too much info.

 

[BID]

This is why we have yet to present compensation to the company. UAL wants a separate pay scale for the 747. If they get this it will probably affect the SLI in their favor.

 

[bizicmo]

This is why we have yet to present compensation to the company. UAL wants a separate pay scale for the 747. If they get this it will probably affect the SLI in their favor.

Can someone explain how a separate pay scale for the 747 will affect the sli? I can see how this would allow more ual pilots to be in widebodies if there was a fence in place around those planes. Is this something where the arbitrator will look at a separate pay scale and will say these planes must be bada** therefor ual pilots should get an extra bump in seniority.

 

[densoo]

Can someone explain how a separate pay scale for the 747 will affect the sli? I can see how this would allow more ual pilots to be in widebodies if there was a fence in place around those planes. Is this something where the arbitrator will look at a separate pay scale and will say these planes must be bada** therefor ual pilots should get an extra bump in seniority.

It affects the "career expectations" part of what the arbitrator looks at for a fair integration. The payrate for the 747 right now is the same as other widebodies. This puts the UAL 747 pilots in an equivalent category as the CAL 777 pilots in terms of career expectations and the SLI should integrate the two groups somewhat equally.

UAL wants the 747 broken out into a completely separate pay category, now, before SLI arbitration. If they are successful, then when the arbitrator looks at the two groups, he'll see the UAL 747 pilots in a category by themselves in essence, making more than any other equipment from either airline.

This could result in a "top staple" of the most senior UAL pilots above all other pilots in both groups. It would dramatically change the SLI. UAL pilots would skew higher in the list generally and CAL pilots would skew lower. This effect would probably be felt as low as the 50th or 60th percentiles.

 

[Flopgut]

This effect would probably be felt as low as the 50th or 60th percentiles.

I'm pretty sure they are trying to run this all the way out to last guy working at UAL. If not the furloughs as well. UAL ALPA wants to move every one of thiers up 400+ numbers....

 

[Yuppyguppy]

Can you say 570s?

 

[whatitdoing?]

Can you say 570s?

Uhhh, what?

 

[eaglesview]

As usual, the United side is coming to the table trying to run the show. They're not budging on the 744 pay category because they want a seniority grab. I say screw em, separate, and work on our own contract like Delta did. I'm tired of this attitude over at United.

Get over yourself. Are you really judging the "United attitude" based on crap you read here on an annonymous web site??

As for the 747, it pays the same as the 777 so I personally don't see why it would be held up on some pedistal. Let the process run its course and save your blood pressure.

See you on the line.

 

[eaglesview]

I'm pretty sure they are trying to run this all the way out to last guy working at UAL. If not the furloughs as well. UAL ALPA wants to move every one of thiers up 400+ numbers....

Yes they do. It's called negotiations. I am sure CO ALPA is doing the same thing. It's not personal. Again let the process play out.

 

[Sonny Crockett]

Either way NO ONE on this board has any control over it!

Sick of the UAL Attitude? WTFO?

Relax and drink a Diet Sprite.....or Diet Dr. Pepper if you are in IAH!

We are all in this together "Stay United"

 

[zonker]

Don't forget to vote NO.

 

[densoo]

As for the 747, it pays the same as the 777 so I personally don't see why it would be held up on some pedistal. Let the process run its course.

The process is running its course, and this is the course it's running--to put the 747 on a pedestal resulting in a top staple.

 

[eaglesview]

The process is running its course, and this is the course it's running--to put the 747 on a pedestal resulting in a top staple.

Oh, excuse me, I was not aware you were an important insider that has all of the inside information. If you are with UAL you talking out of your hind end, If your with CO don't believe the crap you read here.

 

[Flopgut]

Yes they do. It's called negotiations. I am sure CO ALPA is doing the same thing. It's not personal. Again let the process play out.

No. Actually we're not doing the same thing. We have made no effort to leverage anything in SLI.....

 

[Flopgut]

Oh, excuse me, I was not aware you were an important insider that has all of the inside information. If you are with UAL you talking out of your hind end, If your with CO don't believe the crap you read here.

So you're not in Council 12?

 

[Flopgut]

Can you say 570s?

Yup......

 

[manflex srs rwy]

So UAL is manipulating the SLI by wanting to retore higher pay to the 747? It always was a higher paid a/c until bankruptcy. Most airlines pay more for bigger airplanes. Thats ops normal. If anything CAL is trying to manipulate the SLI by trying to block the rightful restoration of those pilots' pay. And how is CAL NOT being manipulative by awarding Captain bids on an airplane they don't even have? When are they getting they're first 787 anyway? Nobody knows, not even Boeing.

 

[densoo]

And how is CAL NOT being manipulative by awarding Captain bids on an airplane they don't even have? When are they getting they're first 787 anyway? Nobody knows, not even Boeing.

Good point! Although I think all they can do is go with the official date of delivery, which is now next fall. In order to get a cadre trained and ready to train line pilots, you've pretty much got so start by next summer I would think, which is on this bid.

 

[BID]

So UAL is manipulating the SLI by wanting to retore higher pay to the 747? It always was a higher paid a/c until bankruptcy. Most airlines pay more for bigger airplanes. Thats ops normal. If anything CAL is trying to manipulate the SLI by trying to block the rightful restoration of those pilots' pay. And how is CAL NOT being manipulative by awarding Captain bids on an airplane they don't even have? When are they getting they're first 787 anyway? Nobody knows, not even Boeing.

So we should wait till the airplane (787) is on property, then start classes? ...

UAL's contract has rates for 747/777 they are trying to change that. Big difference ! but with this said, I don't blame the UAL guys for trying this. I will however be pissed if this goes on too long. We need to present our compensation package to management. I understand these senior UAL pilots have lost a lot the last decade, but we all have. Don't try to use this merger to leap frog your final years at United.

 

[densoo]

No. Actually we're not doing the same thing. We have made no effort to leverage anything in SLI.....

While this unknown, this is the impression.

 

[AWACoff]

So UAL is manipulating the SLI by wanting to retore higher pay to the 747? It always was a higher paid a/c until bankruptcy. Most airlines pay more for bigger airplanes. Thats ops normal. If anything CAL is trying to manipulate the SLI by trying to block the rightful restoration of those pilots' pay. And how is CAL NOT being manipulative by awarding Captain bids on an airplane they don't even have? When are they getting they're first 787 anyway? Nobody knows, not even Boeing.

Important difference here: The United pilot group is trying to manipulate the SLI by trying to get the 747 a higher pay rate.

The Continental pilot group has NOTHING to do with the award of captain bids. That is Continental MANAGEMENT. Got it, Einstein?!

The arrogance of the United pilots never fails to amaze. Gotta love these brain surgeons....lol!

 

[Shrek]

Important difference here: The United pilot group is trying to manipulate the SLI by trying to get the 747 a higher pay rate.

The Continental pilot group has NOTHING to do with the award of captain bids. That is Continental MANAGEMENT. Got it, Einstein?!

The arrogance of the United pilots never fails to amaze. Gotta love these brain surgeons....lol!

Give it a rest aWACOFF.....

 

[bizicmo]

Whether its a seniority grab or not I'm not getting into that. but I thought these 747's were getting dumped in the next 5 years or so anyways? Why waste negotiating capital with management creating a separate payscale for a plane that's not going to be here anymore? Especially if it becomes a dividing issue like it could be?

 

[densoo]

Whether its a seniority grab or not I'm not getting into that. but I thought these 747's were getting dumped in the next 5 years or so anyways? Why waste negotiating capital with management creating a separate payscale for a plane that's not going to be here anymore? Especially if it becomes a dividing issue like it could be?

Also thought that there was a qualitative and substantial difference between UAL plane orders and CAL plane orders. CAL's are actual projected purchases with financing up lined, etc. UAL's are more on the order of public announcement/intentions. Big difference. Anyone can say we plan on buying a new car. Actually getting a credit check or pulling funds out of a savings account another thing.

 

[Yuppyguppy]

Whether its a seniority grab or not I'm not getting into that. but I thought these 747's were getting dumped in the next 5 years or so anyways? Why waste negotiating capital with management creating a separate payscale for a plane that's not going to be here anymore? Especially if it becomes a dividing issue like it could be?

Can you say 570s?

 

[whatitdoing?]

So UAL is manipulating the SLI by wanting to retore higher pay to the 747? It always was a higher paid a/c until bankruptcy. Most airlines pay more for bigger airplanes. Thats ops normal. If anything CAL is trying to manipulate the SLI by trying to block the rightful restoration of those pilots' pay. And how is CAL NOT being manipulative by awarding Captain bids on an airplane they don't even have? When are they getting they're first 787 anyway? Nobody knows, not even Boeing.

Apparently you're an idiot. UAL wants a separate CATEGORY and PAYSCALE. It's not about restoring pay. You have no idea what you're talking about. By making a separate category, you influence an arbitrator's view during SLI in favor of UAL at the detriment of CAL pilots. Smooth move. CAL hasn't manipulated anything. In fact, we've been accommodating UAL pilots from the start by recalling your furloughs over on the CAL side at your original payrates and many other things. You guys are something else. We came to the table to work together and from what I hear, you guys are some shady mofo's.

CAL is manipulating SLI how? By awarding 787 positions for an a/c that we have delivery dates next year? Again, I defer to the 'idiot' statement. You sir, have no clue.