Corporate vs. Commercial

[BenderGonzales]

Fortune 100

I printed this list on another thread in "corporate". Hope you don't mind, but I think its appropriate to copy here.

I've done both airline and corporate and I prefer corporate.

So here's a list of the top Fortune 100 (from 2003) to get you started. Revenue is in billions of dollars:

1. Wal-Mart Stores Inc., Bentonville, Ark., 1, $258.681
2. Exxon Mobil Corp., Irving, Texas, 3, $213.199
3. General Motors Corp., Detroit, 2, $195.645
4. Ford Motor Co., Dearborn, Mich., 4, $164.496
5. General Electric Co., Fairfield, Conn., 5, $134.187
6. ChevronTexaco Corp., San Ramon, Calif., 7, $112.937
7. ConocoPhillips, Houston, 12, $99.468
8. Citigroup Inc., New York, 6, $94.713
9. International Business Machines Corp., Armonk, N.Y., 8, $89.131
10. American International Group, Inc., New York, 9, $81.300
11. Hewlett-Packard Co., Palo Alto, Calif., 14, $73.061
12. Verizon Communications Inc., New York, 10, $67.752
13. The Home Depot Inc., Atlanta, 13, $64.816
14. Berkshire Hathaway Inc., Omaha, 28, $63.859
15. Altria Group Inc., New York, 11, $60.704
16. McKesson Corp., San Francisco, 20, $57.129
17. Cardinal Health Inc., Dublin, Ohio, 19, $56.830
18. State Farm Insurance Cos., Bloomington, Ill., 21, $56.065
19. The Kroger Co., Cincinnati, 18, $53.791
20. Fannie Mae, Washington, D.C., 16, $53.767
21. The Boeing Co., Chicago, 15, $50.485
22. AmerisourceBergen Corp., Chesterbrook, Pa., 24, $49.657
23. Target Corp., Minneapolis, 25, $48.163
24. Bank of America Corp., Charlotte, N.C., 23, $48.065
25. Pfizer Inc., New York, 37, $45.950
26. J.P. Morgan Chase & Co., New York, 26, $44.363
27. Time Warner Inc., New York, 29, $43.877
28. The Procter & Gamble Co., Cincinnati, 31, $43.377
29. Costco Wholesale Corp., Issaquah, Wash., 33, $42.546
30. Johnson & Johnson, New Brunswick, N.J., 34, $41.862
31. Dell Inc., Round Rock, Texas, 36, $41.444
32. Sears Roebuck and Co., Hoffman Estates, Ill., 30, $41.124
33. SBC Communications Inc., San Antonio, 27, $40.843
34. Valero Energy Corp, San Antonio, 55, $37.969
35. Marathon Oil Corp., Houston, 52, $37.137
36. MetLife Inc., New York, 38, $36.261
37. Safeway Inc., Pleasanton, Calif., 41, $35.553
38. Albertson's Inc., Boise, 35, $35.436
39. Morgan Stanley, New York, 40, $34.933
40. AT&T, Bedminster, N.J., 22, $34.529
41. Medco Health Solutions, Franklin Lakes, N.J., new to list, $34.265
42. United Parcel Service Inc., Atlanta, 43, $33.485
43. J.C. Penney Co. Inc., Plano, Texas, 42, $32.923
44. The Dow Chemical Co., Midland, Mich., 51, $32.632
45. Walgreen Co., Deerfield, Ill., 45, $32.505
46. Microsoft Corp., Redmond, Wash., 47, $32.187
47. The Allstate Corp., Northbrook, Ill., 44, $32.149
48. Lockheed Martin Corp., Bethesda, Md., 56, $31.844
49. Wells Fargo & Co., San Francisco, 46, $31.800
50. Lowe's Cos. Inc., Mooresville, N.C., 60, $31.263
51. United Technologies Corp., Hartford, Conn., 49, $31.034
52. Archer-Daniels-Midland Co., Decatur, Ill., 71, $30.708
53. Intel Corp., Santa Clara, Calif., 58, $30.141
54. UnitedHealth Group Inc., Minnetonka, Minn., 63, $28.823
55. Northrop Grumman Corp., Los Angeles, 99, $28.686
56. Delphi Corp., Troy, Mich., 53, $28.096
57. Prudential Financial Inc., Newark, N.J., 57, $27.907
58. Merrill Lynch & Co. Inc., New York, 48, $27.745
59. E.I. du Pont de Nemours, Wilmington, Del., 67, $27.730
60. The Walt Disney Co., Burbank, Calif., 61, $27.061
61. Motorola Inc., Schaumburg, Ill., 59, $27.058
62. PepsiCo Inc., Purchase, N.Y., 62, $26.971
63. CVS Corp., Woonsocket, R.I., 68, $26.588
64. Viacom Inc., New York, 66, $26.585
65. Sprint Corp., Overland Park, Kan., 54, $26.202
66. Sysco Corp., Houston, 73, $26.140
67. Kmart Holding Corp., Troy, Mich., 39, $26.032
68. TIAA-CREF, New York, 89, $26.016
69. American Express Co., New York, 69, $25.866
70. New York Life Insurance Co., New York, 65, $25.700
71. International Paper Co., Stamford, Conn., 64, $25.200
72. Tyson Foods Inc., Springdale, Ark., 72, $24.549
73. Wachovia Corp., Charlotte, N.C., 70, $24.474
74. Goldman Sachs Group Inc., New York, 75, $23.623
75. Duke Energy, Charlotte, N.C., 118, $23.483
76. Honeywell International Inc., Morristown, N.J., 78, $23.103
77. Caterpillar Inc., Peoria, Ill., 85, $22.763
78. Best Buy Co. Inc., Richfield, Minn., 91, $22.673
79. Johnson Controls Inc., Milwaukee, 86, $22.646
80. BellSouth Corp., Atlanta, 77, $22.635
81. Ingram Micro Inc., Santa Ana, Calif., 76, $22.613
82. FedEx Corp., Memphis, 83, $22.487
83. Merck & Co. Inc., Whitehouse Station, N.J., 17, $22.486
84. ConAgra Foods Inc. Omaha, 50, $22.053
85. HCA Inc, Nashville, 90, $21.808
86. Alcoa Inc., Pittsburgh, 82, $21.728
87. Electronic Data Systems, Plano, Texas, 80, $21.596
88. Bank One Corp., Chicago, 79, $21.454
89. Comcast Corp., Philadelphia, 157, $21.263
90. Massachusetts Mutual Life Insurance Co., Springfield, Mass., 84, $21.076
91. The Coca-Cola Co., Atlanta, 92, $21.044
92. Bristol-Myers Squibb Co., New York, 98, $20.671
93. WellPoint Health Networks Inc., Thousand Oaks, Calif., 103, $20.360
94. Georgia-Pacific Corp., Atlanta, 74, $20.255
95. Weyerhaeuser Co., Federal Way, Wash., 96, $19.873
96. Abbott Laboratories, Abbott Park, Ill., 100, $19.681
97. AutoNation Inc., Fort Lauderdale, 93, $19.381
98. The Williams Cos. Inc., Tulsa, 196, $19.246
99. Supervalu Inc., Eden Prairie, Minn., 81, $19.160
100. Cisco Systems Inc., San Jose, Calif., 95, $18.878

 

[Skyline]

Corporate Flying

The definition of corporate flying is to operate a private plane for personal or corporate interests. The department of labor and industries keeps track of corporate pilot incomes and the last time it was shown to me by my employment counselor a few years ago it was listed at 30K/year. That number includes every Cessna 206 that is used by a guide service and piper seneca that is flown by a construction company. The little outfits outnumber the good jobs by a long shot.


I think it is wrong for people in your position to spread information to young pilots that is false. There are few good corporate jobs out there and they are very hard to get. I have flown for three corporate type outfits and they were the worst days of my life. A small company is fast to abuse its employees. They don't care about the FAA regulations or about you. The only way out is to quit. Even bigger companies can have similar attitudes. The airlines are having some hard times but the odds of getting hired and not killed are higher. There has to be 50 times the amount of employment opportunities in the airlines. (I don't advise the airlines either)
To extend the illusion that it is common and easy is wrong. Right now there are over 250,000 Commercial and ATP pilots in the US with current medicals. I think there are another unaccounted for 400,000 to 600,000 pilots who dropped their medicals and had to give up. By my accounting there are less than 48,000 good jobs at the airlines (and that number drops by the hour) and probably less than 10,000 good corporate jobs.
You are lucky and I am glad for you, however I think your view of the industry has been tainted a little. These young kids are eager and fueled by what you say. I just think it is irresponsible.

Skyline

 

[banned username 2]

I think your view of the industry has been tainted a little. These young kids are eager and fueled by what you say. I just think it is irresponsible.

I think your view of the "indusrty" is a little tainted... You've worked (admittedly) a couple crappy (what you call "Corporate") jobs and now you think pretty much all Corporate jobs must be like that except the "one in a million" job out there... Again, go work for one of the Fortune 500 flight departments and most likely things will be much better than they were at your Lear job... And the Department of Labor doesn't have a "Corporate Pilot" catagory... I believe they class it as "Non-Commercial" aviation.... We aren't the Department of Labor here... When people on THIS board refer to "Corporate Aviation", they are referring to flying for a Company who primarily uses the aircraft for company purposes... Not flying for Joe Blow chasing his yacht around the Med... If the "Corporate World" is sooo full of crappy jobs, why are there many threads on here about airline guys (RJ Captains and such) asking about getting into Corporate and getting out of the airlines? There are even quite a few Major airline guys from the legacy carries who got furloughed and are now flying corporate... Most of them don't intend on going back if recalled...

 

[Lead Sled]

I think your view of the "industry" is a little tainted... You've worked (admittedly) a couple crappy (what you call "Corporate") jobs and now you think pretty much all Corporate jobs must be like that except the "one in a million" job out there... Again, go work for one of the Fortune 500 flight departments and most likely things will be much better than they were at your Lear job... And the Department of Labor doesn't have a "Corporate Pilot" catagory... I believe they class it as "Non-Commercial" aviation.... We aren't the Department of Labor here... When people on THIS board refer to "Corporate Aviation", they are referring to flying for a Company who primarily uses the aircraft for company purposes... Not flying for Joe Blow chasing his yacht around the Med... If the "Corporate World" is sooo full of crappy jobs, why are there many threads on here about airline guys (RJ Captains and such) asking about getting into Corporate and getting out of the airlines? There are even quite a few Major airline guys from the legacy carries who got furloughed and are now flying corporate... Most of them don't intend on going back if recalled...

Well said Captain.

Finding a "GOOD" Part 91 corporate job (Notice I didn't mention 135.) isn't particularly difficult IF you are qualified. By qualified, I mean that you not only have the ratings but also the experience AND - just as important for corporate jobs - the personality and temperament to go along with it.

I have a hard time understanding guys like skyline, for some the cup is always half empty. The guys that I know that share his attitude usually have other issues that keep them from assimilating into the corporate culture.

'Sled

 

[Spooky 1]

I think your view of the "indusrty" is a little tainted... You've worked (admittedly) a couple crappy (what you call "Corporate") jobs and now you think pretty much all Corporate jobs must be like that except the "one in a million" job out there... Again, go work for one of the Fortune 500 flight departments and most likely things will be much better than they were at your Lear job... And the Department of Labor doesn't have a "Corporate Pilot" catagory... I believe they class it as "Non-Commercial" aviation.... We aren't the Department of Labor here... When people on THIS board refer to "Corporate Aviation", they are referring to flying for a Company who primarily uses the aircraft for company purposes... Not flying for Joe Blow chasing his yacht around the Med... If the "Corporate World" is sooo full of crappy jobs, why are there many threads on here about airline guys (RJ Captains and such) asking about getting into Corporate and getting out of the airlines? There are even quite a few Major airline guys from the legacy carries who got furloughed and are now flying corporate... Most of them don't intend on going back if recalled...

You talkin about me, eh? Yacht chasing can be lots of fun and it's my experience that if you are using the aircraft for fun, as opposed to pure business one is not looking at the bottom line or stock price
and wondering what comes next.

Poor Skyline just keeps spouting all the obsticles that eveyone has faced somewhere in the career chase. Sure some never get that perfect job, including me, but the ride has been pretty good for the most part.

 

[Skyline]

What ever

Guys,


What ever. Lets call all fancy jet jobs as corporate. I know that some are leaving the airlines for corporate but just a few years ago it was quite different and my guess is that many will go back once it looks like things are getting better. It is all the rage right now in the airlines to see the grass as greener but few are walking away from even marginal jobs to pursue corporate interests. They all like to talk about it though. The others are furloughed and flow back to their last job before the airlines. Once things pick up I am sure they will change their tune. Just last week I spoke to a buddy who has one of the best "corporate" jobs in the state who is planning to leave for SWA. It goes both ways.

"I have a hard time understanding guys like skyline, for some the cup is always half empty. The guys that I know that share his attitude usually have other issues that keep them from assimilating into the corporate culture."

'Sled


I don't have the temperament for corporate. I couldn't sit there and be abused by a spoiled fat executive and be happy about it. I like having some control over my life and having a schedule. The other pilots who could take a punch to the gut and smile about it reminded me of beaten wife syndrome. So, I don't have the personality to do it for long. I don't think that most of these airline defectors will last long either.


Skyline

 

[banned username 2]

I don't have the temperament for corporate. I couldn't sit there and be abused by a spoiled fat executive and be happy about it. I like having some control over my life and having a schedule. The other pilots who could take a punch to the gut and smile about it reminded me of beaten wife syndrome.

ROFLMAO!!! What are you talking about?

Here is an example of what my job is like:

- Average 12 days a month of work (all other days are at HOME)
- Know schedule for next month on 15th of month prior
- Average 5 RON's (Remain Overnights) per month, the other 25-26 nights are in my own bed.
- On first name basis with all the execs (including the CEO)
- Dockers and Polos for uniform (no tie, no hat, no epaulets)
- Paid whether I fly or not (Salary), NBAA average
- Full benefits, including pension, bonus, stock, etc.
- Passengers help themselves when onboard, pilots fly the plane
- Five and a half weeks paid vacation per year
- Basically never fly on holidays, mostly weekday flying.

I know a lot of guys who have very similar or even better jobs... They aren't that rare...

 

[AA717driver]

Astronauts? AF1 pilots? There goes Spooky again, debunking good aviation rumors... The mods ought to ban him for 'rumor-ruining'. Besides, all the former Space Shuttle guys are working at SWA.

Am I missing something? I always thought when you started out in aviation you'd have to take some crappy jobs to gain experience? My first "corporate" job paid $125.00 a week in an F33 Bonanza. I moved up to that coveted commuter job for $800.00/mo.

ATTENTION NEW PILOTS! You will not be able to get a job at JetBlue, SWA or any decent (not to mention top notch) 91 job with 1,000 or 3,000 or probably even 5,000 hours. It takes time. Yes, there are those who have gotten lucky and gotten a good job with low time. But don't count on it.

Bide your time and work hard and you may still get hosed. (Probably not but nothing is guaranteed in this business.)TC

 

[RichardRambone]

Good lord I hope I can land one some day. Im low on the totem pole and yes I take a lot of whats said seriously on here but also with a grain of salt. Everyones perspective is different but from what I can gather corporate is the way to go. But at this point its really whose willing to take me and pay me a livable wage. I guess its time to start kissing more a$$.

 

[Spooky 1]

Myth Debunking

It's pretty easy with some of these whoppers that show up from Skyline and a few others on this board. Instead of being inspired by others sucess, Skyline chooses to reject to possibility of sucess and waffle in reject line. Maybe there is more to this than meets the eye?