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Corporate vs. Commercial

boeingaaa

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Ha!!!
Hello,
I've been reading this message board for quite a while. So far, it's been very helpful in my flight training (although I'm only a private pilot). Anyway, I was trying to access my options for the future, and as always with anything anything aviation related, they're needlessly complicated. The basic question of this post is:

What is the difference between Corporate and Commercial flying? I realize that commercial is flying airliners like United etc, and corporate is usually companies or charted planes, but that's where my knowledge stops. I'm looking in terms of life style, pay, travel, security/stability, and anything else you know.


Sincerely,
Hopelessly confused - Alex:confused:
 

Skyline

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Difference

In corporate you fly anything form a Cessna 182 to a Boeing 757. You are on the leash 24/7 in most cases. The pay ranges from 350K down to 18K and you have to put time in the factory. Most corporate jobs pay poorly and have bad working conditions. Your job can disappear overnight.

The airlines (commercial) gives you a schedule 30 days in advance. The pay ranges from 18K to 250 or so. You will be gone from home more than 50% of the time. Most airline jobs are below 35K. The industry is currently in decline. The best jobs are going away.


If I were you I would stop at the private. Enjoy life, get a good job. Stay away from aviation.

Skyline
 

Melon

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Skyline has no idea what he is talking about. Yes, there are corporate jobs out there that are like he described, but there are also some really good ones. The thing about corporate (part 91 flight departments, 135 charter is a whole different animal) is no two jobs are the same. Generally most 121 airline jobs are all the same, the differences mainly being pay and equipment flown. 91 jobs, in a good, professionally run department, are the best jobs in aviation. I have been on both sides and for me corporate is hands down a better lifestyle. I also feel it is a much more secure job than the airlines if the aircraft is a tool and not a toy. I know several older guys who have never been out of work as a corporatre pilot, but I can not say the same for their airline counterparts.
 

Skyline

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Melon said:
Skyline has no idea what he is talking about. Yes, there are corporate jobs out there that are like he described, but there are also some really good ones. The thing about corporate (part 91 flight departments, 135 charter is a whole different animal) is no two jobs are the same. Generally most 121 airline jobs are all the same, the differences mainly being pay and equipment flown. 91 jobs, in a good, professionally run department, are the best jobs in aviation. I have been on both sides and for me corporate is hands down a better lifestyle. I also feel it is a much more secure job than the airlines if the aircraft is a tool and not a toy. I know several older guys who have never been out of work as a corporatre pilot, but I can not say the same for their airline counterparts.
Dear Melon,

I had several disclaimers in there. I did acknowledge that there are some good corporate jobs, but lets not forget that most of them are bad. I have worked for a few corporate and 135 gigs and they were the worst jobs I ever had. The last one offered me 32,500/year and I had to work in the apple packing shed during harvest. If you send this kid out there with a false sense of the industry then you are not doing anyone any favors. He could also win the powerball for 300 million, but it is not likely.

Skyline
 

banned username 2

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Melon said:
Skyline has no idea what he is talking about. Yes, there are corporate jobs out there that are like he described, but there are also some really good ones. The thing about corporate (part 91 flight departments, 135 charter is a whole different animal) is no two jobs are the same. Generally most 121 airline jobs are all the same, the differences mainly being pay and equipment flown. 91 jobs, in a good, professionally run department, are the best jobs in aviation. I have been on both sides and for me corporate is hands down a better lifestyle. I also feel it is a much more secure job than the airlines if the aircraft is a tool and not a toy. I know several older guys who have never been out of work as a corporatre pilot, but I can not say the same for their airline counterparts.
I have to agree with this... SKyline is pretty much clueless when talking about "Corporate Aviation"... The jobs he sounds like he is describing are most likely a crappy Charter job or flying for a personal owner... If you would for a Large Corporation, typically you will find Corporate Aviation to be a rewarding job...
 

GoingHot

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Skyline said:
and I had to work in the apple packing shed during harvest.
Skyline
:( This business is starting to SUCK!
 

F16fixer

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yep,
So the next to do there boeinng, is finish up your multi commercial and start applying to Nike, Microsoft or maybe 3M. I've heard they are all pretty good to work for.
I think what skyline ment was that 90% of the corporate jobs that this kid would even have a chance at would suck. Go work for an airline for ten years build up that turbine PIC and then go find a good corp. job.

Corporate jobs are like people. No two are the same. Some are like Cindy Crawford and some are like Roseanne Bar.

Falcon Capt said:
I have to agree with this... SKyline is pretty much clueless when talking about "Corporate Aviation"... The jobs he sounds like he is describing are most likely a crappy Charter job or flying for a personal owner... If you would for a Large Corporation, typically you will find Corporate Aviation to be a rewarding job...
 

Skyline

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You Guys

Man, he might as well apply to NASA as an astronaut as well. Just last night I had a conversation with a guy who works for Paul Allen and he said that someone had to die before there was an opening and even then they have a pile of resumes from real astronauts and pilots who flew air force one. Perhaps you guys are living in denial? Sure those are great jobs out there but the reality of corporate is closer to what I have described. Those jobs are one in a million and don't come by too often.

Skyline
 

banned username 2

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F16fixer said:
Go work for an airline for ten years build up that turbine PIC and then go find a good corp. job.
Your best bet if you want to find a good Corporate job is to fly Charter... You will be flying in a similar environment, flying similar equipment and will have the opportunity to network with Corporate pilots... The airlines don't offer any of these important factors... Getting into Corporate is FAR more than just having a bunch of hours...
 

Spooky 1

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BS Factor

Skyline said:
Man, he might as well apply to NASA as an astronaut as well. Just last night I had a conversation with a guy who works for Paul Allen and he said that someone had to die before there was an opening and even then they have a pile of resumes from real astronauts and pilots who flew air force one. Perhaps you guys are living in denial? Sure those are great jobs out there but the reality of corporate is closer to what I have described. Those jobs are one in a million and don't come by too often.

Skyline
Skyline,

I just happen to know a little about the Paul Allen operation, better known as Vulcan Flight Management. They have no astronaut resumes, no Air Force One pilot resumes, just regular guys with good solid backgrounds from all spectrums of aviation. They have hired at least eight corporate pilots, plus another ten helicopter pilots in the last five years, so your "guy who works for Paul Allen" is seriously deficient in his knowledge of this flight department, or recognizes you as someone who need not apply and was just giving you the brush off. As a matter of fact they have two new corporate pilots starting next week, both just plain old civilian borne and bred pilots.
 

banned username 2

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Skyline said:
Perhaps you guys are living in denial? Sure those are great jobs out there but the reality of corporate is closer to what I have described. Those jobs are one in a million and don't come by too often.
I was hired off a resume into a Fortune 100 flight department... I didn't know anyone on the inside and I had "modest" qualifications (no Shuttle landings, no military time, no Air Force One time...)... I had about 4,500 TT, 3 jet type ratings (none of which were for the equipment I was being hired into) and a Charter background... Nearly nine years later I find myself still here, basically smack dab in the middle of the "seniority" list (for what that matters)... One in a million job??? Hardly... Good jobs are out there, you just have to have the right drive, attitude and insight...

Skyline, the job you described sounds like a "Private Owner" job, or a Corporate job that the owner was the only one who ever used the airplane, his toy, type job (You know the kind, where the company owns the airplane but it is really for use only by the President)... Those types of jobs typically blow because you are at his beck and call for all sorts of personal whims...
 

boeingaaa

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Thanks,
it looks like there are some pretty good jobs available out there, just have to find them. From what I gather, regionals are the stepping stones to Commercial, and flight instructor, charter, networking!! are the stepping stones for Corporate.

Or....I could just become Mr. Discount Airilne Pilot Guy. :rolleyes: (<-- click on link)
 

Skyline

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Well Good for you Guys

Let's bag on poor Skyline. He is full of BS. The world is your oyster. All you have to do is to go out there and get it. Good for you guys. I don't think it is that easy or else we all would be there by now. In case you haven't noticed everyone who has two brain cells to rub together is pining for either big time cargo or the magical corporate job. They just don't exist at a very high percentage. Most are the crappy jobs like I described. In addition even big and well established corporate departments can quickly go away. Right now they are all the rage but that could easily change with a few short years. I am sure that even now with the high price of fuel some of your jobs are in jeopardy and you don't even know it yet.

Skyline
 

banned username 2

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boeingaaa said:
Thanks,
it looks like there are some pretty good jobs available out there, just have to find them. From what I gather, regionals are the stepping stones to Commercial, and flight instructor, charter, networking!! are the stepping stones for Corporate.
You are 100% correct...
 

banned username 2

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Skyline said:
Let's bag on poor Skyline. He is full of BS. The world is your oyster. All you have to do is to go out there and get it. Good for you guys. I don't think it is that easy or else we all would be there by now. In case you haven't noticed everyone who has two brain cells to rub together is pining for either big time cargo or the magical corporate job. They just don't exist at a very high percentage. Most are the crappy jobs like I described. In addition even big and well established corporate departments can quickly go away. Right now they are all the rage but that could easily change with a few short years. I am sure that even now with the high price of fuel some of your jobs are in jeopardy and you don't even know it yet.

Skyline
It is because you made some rediculous, "absolute" comments that do NOT apply to "nearly all". "pretty much all" or "all but the one in a million jobs"... The statements you made and tried to pass off as absolute fact are ONLY accurate for the very small percentage of the jobs that you held... From the list of your "Corporate Type" aircraft experience, you were working for very small companies (Most of the Fortune 500 don't operate Lear 35's) So trying to give "absolute" statements on such a broad industry is rediculous, inaccurate and unfair to the poster asking questions...

And as far as fuel prices go, remember we aren't making money (directly) with our aircraft... No matter what we are a cost center (directly). If our budget goes up, it isn't a huge deal, we aren't trying to sell seats at a profit... Once again, you are showing your lack of knowledge of true Corporate Aviation... Yeah, I realize the apple farmer might not be able to absorb $5.00/gal Jet-A very long, but most $30 Billion corporations can do it just fine...
 

Skyline

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Hey, go back and re-read my posts. There was nothing in there that suggested an absolute. The definition of corporate flying is broad in scope. The majority of corporate jobs are as I described. You are tainting the truth by making is appear that your job is common and easy to get. It might seem that way to you but I think it is irresponsible for people in your position to spread false information to young pilots. Things worked out great for you and I am happy but for every cushy corporate job there are a large amounts of pilots out there trying to get in. It is highly competitive and a difficult area to break into.

Skyline
 

400A

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Skyline said:
Man, he might as well apply to NASA as an astronaut as well. Just last night I had a conversation with a guy who works for Paul Allen and he said that someone had to die before there was an opening and even then they have a pile of resumes from real astronauts and pilots who flew air force one. Perhaps you guys are living in denial? Sure those are great jobs out there but the reality of corporate is closer to what I have described. Those jobs are one in a million and don't come by too often.

Skyline
Yeah, kind of like an airline that is not currently in bankrupcy, laying off pilots, and asking for 50% pay cuts.... That definately sounds better than corp. to me. Also dont forget the promised pensions that get taken away.
 

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Skyline said:
The majority of corporate jobs are as I described.
How can you say this? Have you held a "majority" of the jobs? We aren't talking "personal Owners" type jobs, we are talking Corporate jobs... Look at it this way, out of the Fortune 500, there are about 450 companies with aircraft... This accounts for approximately 1,800 corporate aircraft, and nearly 8,500 pilot jobs... That is more pilots than UAL or Delta has... That is JUST the Fortune 500...

These jobs are certainly not "un-attainable" or "one in a million"...
 

Spooky 1

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Skyline said:
Let's bag on poor Skyline. He is full of BS. The world is your oyster. All you have to do is to go out there and get it. Good for you guys. I don't think it is that easy or else we all would be there by now. In case you haven't noticed everyone who has two brain cells to rub together is pining for either big time cargo or the magical corporate job. They just don't exist at a very high percentage. Most are the crappy jobs like I described. In addition even big and well established corporate departments can quickly go away. Right now they are all the rage but that could easily change with a few short years. I am sure that even now with the high price of fuel some of your jobs are in jeopardy and you don't even know it yet.

Skyline
It's not my intention to bag on poor Skyline, but your comments regarding the VFM flight department were so far off the wall, it just could not go unchallenged. Simply false statements from beginning to end. Suggest that you try and remove yourself from this false sense of woe is me, and get with the rest of the guys/gals out there who are looking at real world corporate issues and the employment opportunites that come with them.
 

Snakum

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The last one offered me 32,500/year and I had to work in the apple packing shed during harvest.
Just be thankful they weren't in the fudge business. :eek:

Minh
 
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