Comair to furlough 500??!!

[Homer Jay]

I have about 400 below me and was told I should not be worried about getting furloughed. According to a CP in Cincinnati, there have been quite a few people that are just flat out resigning. Apparently some people are just getting fed up with this industry and would rather do something else...go figure! And for what it's worth, I've been at Comair just over two and a half years. Looks like I'm heading back to reserve, with a paycut, and no upgrade in sight. Good luck to us all!

 

[surplus1]

Surplus1,

We were owned by the same people. We fed each other traffic.

And your point is? Am I supposed to assume that makes either one of us special? It sure didn't prevent you from trying to stop us from flying the 70-seater and take it for yourself, did it? And you can pretend all you want that you did not try to do that; the fact is you did and there is proof, in writing.

We offered you preferential hiring in '99-----and that was told to me by your ex System Chief pilot who went over to Delta Express in 99 (I gave him a jump seat down to MCO from ATL). He told me you guys turned that down. We offered you preferential hiring even before 9-11.

You offered us nothing, General. Your MEC Chairman made a demand and offered a bribe that he didn't have the power to deliver. I know you all think we're a$$holes but we're not stupid enough to be excited by bribes paid in monopoly money. In fact some of us don't like bribes at all.

I guess you think that CMR System Chief Pilots sit in on MEC meetings? Sure, General, they do that all the time, just like they do on the DMEC.

An yes, I do know the so-called chief pilot you're talking about; one of our Benedict Arnolds. I even know how he got the title of chief pilot when in fact he was a First Officer who did not even meet the FAA minimum requirements for that position when it was given to him. So in reality, he was a paper chief pilot who's purpose in life was to kiss management where they like to be kissed; in other words a management tool. So Yes, General, I do know who he is, and I also know that he had no clue regarding what took place between our MEC and your MEC. A know-nothing trying to bond with a know-everything. You two make a good pair.

Your problem is you believe whatever you hear regardless of the source, General. That seems to run in the Delta rank and file. Your buddy FDJ2 is another DL pilot who believes whatever your MEC tells him as though it were extracted from the Gospel.

Then the DCI pilots jumped up and down when they thought they would get DOH from the ALPA merger policy. An ASA pilot told me (I was on his CRJ jumpseat from ATL to CLE at the time) that he would eventually retire on the 738 flying left seat to Central America. He said that.

Did your MEC Chairman tell you that little lie about our jumping? Oh, I see, an ASA pilot told you too. Well now, that really is a credible source of information on the views of the Comair pilot group isn't it? Is that your attempt at humor or are you actually that gullible?

I am sure the Comair people believed the same for awhile.

And how are you sure, General? Did your wife's sister's brother-in-law tell you that on the way to the pizza parlor in your mother-in-law's SUV? Sorry, I made a mistake again, It was your MEC Chairman that told you. The gentleman from SLC who, like George Washington, never told a lie. You slay me.

Tell you what though, I do know of one CMR jackass who did think that and said it on a Delta jumpseat. I also know what he was told when we found out. BTW that fellow was a junior captain at the time. Somebody we hired from another airline. Hope that makes you feel better now that you have some valid information.

So, to answer your question---we were (are currently) owned by the same people,

Being owned by the same people never caused anyone in authority on the Delta MEC to tell Comair pilots anything other than your expectation that we should kiss your behind, and you've been in shock ever since we told you where to stick that idea. I'm a happy camper knowing that nobody in authority on the CMR MEC ever sucked up to any of you. Thank God for small favors.

You're right my friend the truth does hurt. It's too bad you know so little of what the truth really is.

Did USAir offer that to you? But you treated their furloughs "the same".

And why shouldn't we treat USAir furloughs the same? Why should we expect them to offer us anything? Listen, I know your MEC is accustomed to buying its way around ALPA's inner circles with threats, but guess what? Most other airlines don't do that. In fact you all are about the only ones that try to throw your money around to get your way. If you really knew anything about your MEC you would also know that Comair pilots have never bowed their knee to the power of your money. You all have p!ssed on our tree more time than I can count, but somehow it managed to not wither in the fowl deluge.

Are USAir furloughs somehow inferior to Delta furloughs? How did Delta furloughs get to be more important than USAir furloughs, or United furloughs, or TWA furloughs, or NWA furloughs, or Midway furloughs, or Eagle furloughs, or ACA furloughs? Did your MEC pass a resolution telling you that YOU were the most important furloughees on the block? It wouldn't surprise me one bit.

I realize that many of you Delta pilots think you're the cat's meow, but the truth is we don't hear the meow, we just smell the litter box. That is exactly why most other pilots in the industry have never thought much of you as a group. And yes, I have enough friends in all major carriers to be well aware of that and they're not my daddy's friends, they're my friends.

I'm sure you haven't noticed so I'll tell you. You have a reputation second (maybe) only to that of the Sky Nazis in this industry and its been that way for longer than you have been working for Delta. You all should apply for French nationality for you're just like them; a bunch of arrogant blowhards.

Let me give you a clue: Maybe 60 million Frenchmen can't ever be wrong but 10 thousand Delta pilots sure as he11 can. Get used to it.

Why would ASA offer our pilots help, and your airline would not?

I don't know but I'll take a guess: because the management of ASA were all Delta people before they went to ASA and would have given Delta pilots the moon if they wanted it; and because ASA never had an official policy requireing the resignation of seniority numbers by pilots hired from other airlines. In contrast the management of Comair had never been employees of Delta before the purchase, were not impressed by Delta pilots, and did have such an official policy.

As far as I know, that Comair policy is still in place. I admit I haven't bothered to check and I really don't care. I do know why and how that policy came into existence at CMR and, at the time, it was justified. You can thank your "friends" from Eastern Air Lines for that one. You know, the EAL pilots that the Delta pilots made such a wonderful effort to hire when EAL tanked.

Remind me; how many of them did the Delta MEC ask Delta to hire again. Oh yeah, I remember now, 2 Scabs and not one rEAL pilot. Why was it that you guys didn't go to bat for them again? I mean UAL did, and so did just about everyone else (including little old CMR). Everyone else, except of course the Delta pilots. Par for the course.

Like you often tell me, memories are long, General.

 

[flylike44]

^ wow. general, you may return to your embroidery....

 

[General Lee]

Surplus1,

You can write as many long diatribes as you want, but overall you guys "stiffed us." You could have helped our pilots JUST LIKE ASA DID, but you did not. Even CHQ allowed our pilots in need to come on without seniority resignation. What do all of those companies have in common? They all feed Delta. That was nice. Did USAir feed Delta? No. See the difference yet? You probably never will. That's fine, it won't change our minds over here at mainline about anything. We already saw what happened. Good goes around my friend. It really does.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Plug]

Surplus,

Just because you can type a lot of words doesn't mean your all that smart, get a clue!!!

 

[Otto]

Good question

General,
I think Surplus brings up a really good question and it's a simple one. What have the Delta pilots done for Comair that no other ALPA pilot group has done? I mean everyone at CMR appreciated the strike donations but we got the same thing from guys at UAL, USair, etc. With that in mind, why should a furloughed Delta guy be able to keep their seniority when the guy from United had to resign? Why would that be fair?
As for the offer of preferential treatment, when you look at the details, it was preferential after the pool of C-5, C-141, F-14, and F-15 drivers had dried up...hardly preferential I'd say. When your MEC was asked if military guys would be hired ahead of someone from Comair (already an ALPA member AND in the Delta Family) his response was "that's just something you'll have to get used to". I'd say that's more of a slap in the face than a real offer, wouldn't you say? General, you're a bright guy...would you call that a good deal?

He11, it's all a moot point anyway now that Delta has managed to destroy Comair.

 

[surplus1]

Surplus, the CMR pilots were never asked to "fall on their sword" for Delta furloughed pilots.

In fact the CMR pilots were never "asked" anything. Your Chairman did not make a request. He made a demand, coupled with a threat and the offer of bribe that he could not pay. Had he made a simple phone call with a request, without the threat and without the bribe, he probably would have received what he wanted, for free.

As a matter of fact when the CMR pilots flip flopped on supporting the requirement that furloughed ALPA pilots give up their recall rights in October 2004, no such "falling on your sword" was required. That's just spin on your part. It was simply petty small mindedness on the part of the CMR pilots to kick furloughed pilots when they are down. I can understand your desire for revisionist history.

I have no desire for revisionist history. I just don't believe in phoney historians, a title that you fit rather well. When what you call the "flip-flop" occured, in 2004, you had a new Chairman. That new Chairman made no demands, made no threats and offered no bribes, so he got what he wanted by simply asking for it. He didn't have to make any promises that he couldn't keep or any other kind.

12-06-2002, 16:00 #1
snowback
Registered User
DAL MEC meets Comair MEC
From a recent DALPA Code-a phone message

Item two. At its October meeting, the (Delta) MEC passed a resolution directing the MEC Chairman to meet with the Comair MEC to pursue a reciprocal preferential hiring policy for furloughed Delta pilots at Comair and for Comair pilots at Delta. This week, MEC Chairman Capt. Will Buergey met with the Comair MEC Chairman in Cincinnati to discuss this issue further. The Comair MEC Chairman stated that his MEC administration does not support the hiring of furloughed Delta pilots at Comair. ASA management, at the ASA MEC’s request, has already hired furloughed Delta pilots, who start at the bottom of the airline’s seniority list and retain their recall rights at Delta.

Do you really expect me to change what I said because you post a commentary from the Delta MEC's propaganda machine? That stuff is designed to satisfy the gullible Delta pilots, such as yourself, and to generate canned animosity for your MEC's political agenda. Do not pan it off as fact.

It is not the first time that your MEC has deliberately bombarded you with false information about the Comair pilot group and I doubt it will be the last either. You obviously believe whatever propaganda message your MEC puts on its VARS as though it were Gospel but, guess what, I don't! You can believe whatever you want to FDJ2, but any resemblance to truth in that propaganda message is an oxymoron. They lied to you and you believe it. Be my guest, but don't expect me to swallow or believe that cr_p.

12-06-2002, 16:13 #2
ACE
Registered User

It's not going to happen. Comair management and the Comair pilot group do not want the Delta pilots to come over and work with us. The only way it could happen is if Delta management says too take the Delta pilots. The Comair pilots are ready to cause chaos if we are made to do this against our will. I do not want to see any Delta pilot furloughed, but for them to come to Comair is a conflict of interest. For all you Delta pilots, you guys can call me an ass all you want for saying this, but it is fact.

Is that another one of the DMEC's VARS messages? It sure sounds like one.

If that is supposed to be from a Comair source, why can't you reveal the souce? What does ACE mean? Are you trying to imply that I wrote that, or did you save if off of some ALPA forum? Anonymous messages have no credibility in proving anything. They are just another dose of propaganda from you. Your pretty colors don't convey truth FDJ2 so you might as well save yourself the time and the effort.

It is not impossible that may have been written by one Comair pilot, but until you say that, I have no idea who ACE might be and can't offer any opinion. if it was a Comair pilot about all I can say is that he was not alone in that opinion. There would not have been any chaos, but there was a conflict of interest. That conflict of interest is still there.

We are now bankrupt and facing a furlough of our own. That's not because of anything that Comair pilots did. Our company was dragged into the Delta mess against its will and is now suffering the consequence of being "owned" by Delta Air Lines. Delta's business failures are not caused by Comair or Comair's pilots. Ours has always been a well managed company with the exception of chages forced upon us by your mismanaged company. We are not bankrupt, we have been dragged into your bankruptcy.

We are now b eing downsized not because WE couldn't make it but because YOUR company is deliberately doing it for whatever warped mentality your management may have. You can't run your own show, so you just had to F**K up our show. Do you think we don't know that?

Go ahead and gloat all you want buddy, but the truth is you have a lot farther to fall than we do. If we could just get rid of the boat anchor you've been and off of your Titanic we'd have a fighting chance. But, that's how the cookie crumbles.

Sorry to disappoint you but don't expect us to love you for the mess you have created for us.

 

[FDJ2]

Surplus, you have completely lost your grip on reality. Your revisionist view of events is both laughable and pathetic. I can understand your desire to run from your dicredited history and the shameful acts of your MEC when they slammed the door in the face of furloughed ALPA pilots, but the truth is the truth. You'll just have to learn to deal with it.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

Go ahead and gloat all you want buddy, but the truth is you have a lot farther to fall than we do. If we could just get rid of the boat anchor you've been and off of your Titanic we'd have a fighting chance. Sorry to disappoint you but don't expect us to love you for the mess you have created for us.

Ah, glad to see things are all rosy and huggy huggy back at ALPA. I just don't understand why I left.

Somethings never change, CMR pilots and DAL pilots should just head to different bars. It's a worthless cause to try and fix what happened, it doesn't matter now anyway.

 

[flylike44]

hey wolfpack, think we finally beat tech tonight?

 

[surplus1]

Surplus1,
You can write as many long diatribes as you want, but overall you guys "stiffed us."

General,

If we "stiffed you", you stiffed us first! Like you say good goes around, so does bad.

Did USAir feed Delta? No. See the difference yet? You probably never will.

Nope, I don't see the difference and you're right, I never will. I know you think you were "entitled" to preference because our Company had a contract with your Company. I've been trying to get you to admit that for a long time and you finally have. Congratulations.

However, I don't think that and never have. You never owed us any favors because of that, we never asked for any, and you didn't give us any. I have no problem with that for I never had any expectations.

By the same token we didn't owe you any favors either. The difference between us is that you DID have expectations of privilege. They weren't realized and so you're pouting. Get over it, it's history and it isn't going to change anything.

That's fine, it won't change our minds over here at mainline about anything.

My friend that feeling is totally mutual on my part. I know it's difficult for you to grasp for you have always seen youselves as the privileged upper class. I've never seen you that way and never will. You are no more than just another airline pilot and other airline pilots that are not employed by your company are your equals in every respect; so are we. That's what YOU don't understand and you never will.

So let it die, for it is irrelevant to me what you think about us. As long as you keep your information factual I won't say a word. When you post bogus information I will call you every time. If that ruffles your pin feathers just cinch up that double-breasted sailor coat and learn to live with the prevailing wind. That wind is gonna be there no matter how many times you call for a wind check.

Y'all come back, ya hea!

 

[surplus1]

Surplus,

Just because you can type a lot of words doesn't mean your all that smart, get a clue!!!

I readily admit that I'm not as smart as you Plug. So you just keep plugging along and we'll both be happy.

 

[StaySeated]

blah blah blah blah, so old, so tired, so f'n rediculous

How about that white sox game last night, you gotta love baseball in October!

 

[Sir Muttley]

Surplus, you have completely lost your grip on reality. Your revisionist view of events is both laughable and pathetic. I can understand your desire to run from your dicredited history and the shameful acts of your MEC when they slammed the door in the face of furloughed ALPA pilots, but the truth is the truth. You'll just have to learn to deal with it.

FDJ2, I think you're mistaken! If I recall correctly, furloughed Delta pilots were welcomed at Comair with open arms. Resign your seniority and come join the team. It was as simple as that! It sounds like you guys that bitch and complain that you were shut out just wanted something for nothing. Don't we all, that type of selfish attitude is becoming more prevalent in today's society!

 

[737 Pylt]

You offered us nothing, General. Your MEC Chairman made a demand and offered a bribe that he didn't have the power to deliver.

Looks like someone is off his meds again!

I know you all think we're a$$holes but we're not stupid enough to be excited by bribes paid in monopoly money. In fact some of us don't like bribes at all.

Not all of you, only you rjdc types! And yes if you believe what you type, then you are stupid! Your hatred for the mainline pilots makes you write things that are so unrealistic, you can't even be taken seriously!

I guess you think that CMR System Chief Pilots sit in on MEC meetings? Sure, General, they do that all the time, just like they do on the DMEC.

to quote one of your own pilots. You let us worry about the DMEC politics!

An yes, I do know the so-called chief pilot you're talking about; one of our Benedict Arnolds. I even know how he got the title of chief pilot when in fact he was a First Officer who did not even meet the FAA minimum requirements for that position when it was given to him. So in reality, he was a paper chief pilot who's purpose in life was to kiss management where they like to be kissed; in other words a management tool. So Yes, General, I do know who he is, and I also know that he had no clue regarding what took place between our MEC and your MEC. A know-nothing trying to bond with a know-everything. You two make a good pair.

Unbelievable, you have an excuse for everything. You forgot to blame it on the DMEC!

Your problem is you believe whatever you hear regardless of the source, General. That seems to run in the Delta rank and file. Your buddy FDJ2 is another DL pilot who believes whatever your MEC tells him as though it were extracted from the Gospel.

YGTBSM! You make stuff up out of thin air. At least the General has credible sources. Your pure hatred for mainline has you dilusional! Did a mainline pilot have sex with your wife or something??

The rest of your post is long and boring....And I am just sick of reading your lies and hatred. All you like to do is to hear yourself speak. I'll even bet you are your biggest fan!
You are boring and a very bitter little man! All your woes are not the fault of the mainline pilot group. Get over yourself!
737

 

[General Lee]

FDJ2, I think you're mistaken! If I recall correctly, furloughed Delta pilots were welcomed at Comair with open arms. Resign your seniority and come join the team. It was as simple as that! It sounds like you guys that bitch and complain that you were shut out just wanted something for nothing. Don't we all, that type of selfish attitude is becoming more prevalent in today's society!

Explain why ASA allowed the furloughed pilots to come over and you could not again? Oh, it was the golden rule, that was later BROKEN. You couldn't do it back then, right? Why were you different than ASA? Explain it please. You are better than them? Flying Gods. Riiiiight. Ridiculous. Delta owned both of you back then, but only they could help our furloughs. You have no excuse.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Surplus,

What did we offer you? Your ex-chief pilot told us that our MEC supported preferential hiring back in 99 and you guys turned it down. What did you offer us again? We offered you nothing, right?


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[jetflyer]

I wish everything could just be forgotten.

Let's bury the hatchet.

Let's try to work together from here on out.

Plus can we stop talking about something that is 3 years old?

Jet

 

[CheapFlyer]

Surplus,

What did we offer you? Your ex-chief pilot told us that our MEC supported preferential hiring back in 99 and you guys turned it down. What did you offer us again? We offered you nothing, right?


Bye Bye--General Lee

Assuming what you say is true....
How can you blame the entire pilot group, or any Comair line pilot for that matter, over what was ALLEGEDLY said between the two MEC's behind CLOSED DOORS? Do you not understand what was stated earlier in this thread: The Delta MEC and the Comair MEC were essentialy having pissin' matches behind closed doors. This has gone on way too long...it needs to stop. The Comair pilots never turned down anything, because nothing was ever officially offered. There was no big secret vote amongst the Comair pilots to screw the DAL pilots! Blaming any Comair pilot today for something that happened at some meeting 5 years ago is absolutely rediculous.

-CF

 

[FmrFreightDog]

I wish everything could just be forgotten.

Let's bury the hatchet.

Let's try to work together from here on out.

Plus can we stop talking about something that is 3 years old?

Jet

Now THAT'S the funniest thing I've seen all day.