Comair to furlough 500??!!

[StarChecker]

They did this because their mgt. told them it would bring lots of shiny new jets to their propertys.

Now, in 2004, Comair mgt. came to the Comair pilot group wanting concessions so we could get more shiny new jets. We told them no, and the shiny new jets went to CHQ., SKYW, and ASA.

What about that pay freeze you voted in for "shiny new jets"?

I'll go outside and eat my car if you can name 3 issues my pilot group was facing at our last contract signing. Otherwise...get yourself informed before you make ridiculous statements.

On another note, much thanks to the CMR crew that waited for me in CHS last Sunday and got me home on my anniversary. I only hope someday I can return the favor.

 

[jaybird]

bvt, you are one of the most delusional people on this board. you are nuts if you think CMR hasn't recieved jets at the expence of DL pilots or any other w.o. for that matter. you corn holes won't even let the DL pilots keep their seniority numbers if they want a job at CMR.

i don't know how many times this has to be repeated, but our management did not come to the group and say sign this contract and you will see new jets. i think it was more like sign this other contract and were going to start an alter ego airline for the sole purpose of whipsawing you.

bvt, i kind of feel bad for you that you have so much hatred for our group. you must be one miserable s.o.b..

 

[Ward]

What about that pay freeze you voted in for "shiny new jets"?

For the majority of us (at least the vast majority I've spoken to), it was for preservation and nothing else.

If all others applied the "pattern bargaining" principle, we may not have been placed in this position.

Ward

 

[Texx]

Assuming for the moment that Lawson truly "snubbed" DAL pilots,

No "assuming" at all. He did.

 

[Full of LUV]

So the cheap get cheaper

All though any one following the industry should know this i will explain for your benefit.
The Comair pilots struck for 89 days and won an industry leading contract. This was in 2001. Soon afterwards, the CHQ. and MESA pilot groups signed contracts that were , uh, crappy, for a lack of a better word. They did this because their mgt. told them it would bring lots of shiny new jets to their propertys.
Now, in 2004, Comair mgt. came to the Comair pilot group wanting concessions so we could get more shiny new jets. We told them no, and the shiny new jets went to CHQ., SKYW, and ASA.
In the mean time. SKYWEST pilots agree to fly aircraft up to 99 seats for LESS than we get paid to fly aircraft with 50 seats.
So, the Comair pilots now start to get the picture. 2005.
The Comair pilots see that after raising the bar, then attempting to hold there ground, the likes of SKYWEST, CHQ, MESA, pilots are more than willing to fly dirt cheap, and if we are to prosper, we have to change. We must now compete . The old standard of one pilot group raising the bar so the next pilot group could negotiate an even BETTER contract is gone.
Yes, the Comair Pilots struck for 89 days, and won a good contract. And now that we have beed forced to rethink our approach some one like you calls us names?

Good grief.

So what you are saying is the COMAIR folks underbid DAL mainline, who were underbid by ASA, who were underbid by CHQ, and who were underbid by SKW, who will all be underbid eventually by MESA? Got it, roger!

 

[bvt1151]

So what you are saying is the COMAIR folks underbid DAL mainline, who were underbid by ASA, who were underbid by CHQ, and who were underbid by SKW, who will all be underbid eventually by MESA? Got it, roger!

The Delta pilots never bid on 50 to 70-seat flying. Its impossible to underbid when you don't even enter a bid.

 

[Nindiri]

No "assuming" at all. He did.

Whatever. All the Delta guys I've talked to couldn't care less one way or the other. The only people that seem to get worked up over it are the ones posting here.

 

[737 Pylt]

It's spelled "hypocrite".

and I'd suggest keeping your mouth shut around pilot groups who are furloughing to give you that fourth stripe.

You should take your own advice!
737

 

[wms]

So what you are saying is the COMAIR folks underbid DAL mainline, who were underbid by ASA, who were underbid by CHQ, and who were underbid by SKW, who will all be underbid eventually by MESA? Got it, roger!

ASA never under-bid anyone. We refused to give in, and still were awarded the airplanes.

 

[OPECJet]

"Airways 145 flying is the only CHQ flying not to come at the expense of another pilot group".

Bullsh!t That flying came at the expense of another pilot group as well.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

lol...I was just thinking that. We have to remember though that some of these young guys haven't been at Chautauqua long enough to remember the US Airways DC9s, F100s, F28s, and/or Bac 1-11s that the Brazilliajet replaced.

The senior Chautauqua pilots (say 1996 and earlier) are much more realistic.

 

[Full of LUV]

Give it a time

ASA never under-bid anyone. We refused to give in, and still were awarded the airplanes.

ASA will soon be forced to underbid or they will cease to exist. Don't forget that DAL felt it was cheaper to grow RJ's at ASA and other regionals rather than RJ's at DAL. If ASA had demanded what mainline wanted, then there would have been no growth.

The difference is I don't fault ASA, or even the regionals, they were doing what they thought they had to do to get ahead. Letting the RJ off of mainline rates in the very beginning was ALPA's mistake and we are now paying the price to get it back on. Unfortunately, it will be a steep price for the profession.

 

[General Lee]

Whatever. All the Delta guys I've talked to couldn't care less one way or the other. The only people that seem to get worked up over it are the ones posting here.

You've never been in the DL ATL crew lounge, have you? Very vocal.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Nindiri]

Actually, I have been in there a few times, and no one seemed particularly vexed about CMR.

 

[goodpilotithink]

What about that pay freeze you voted in for "shiny new jets"?

I'll go outside and eat my car if you can name 3 issues my pilot group was facing at our last contract signing. Otherwise...get yourself informed before you make ridiculous statements.

On another note, much thanks to the CMR crew that waited for me in CHS last Sunday and got me home on my anniversary. I only hope someday I can return the favor.

Like I sad.

 

[goodpilotithink]

bvt, you are one of the most delusional people on this board. you are nuts if you think CMR hasn't recieved jets at the expence of DL pilots or any other w.o. for that matter. you corn holes won't even let the DL pilots keep their seniority numbers if they want a job at CMR.

i don't know how many times this has to be repeated, but our management did not come to the group and say sign this contract and you will see new jets. i think it was more like sign this other contract and were going to start an alter ego airline for the sole purpose of whipsawing you.

bvt, i kind of feel bad for you that you have so much hatred for our group. you must be one miserable s.o.b..

See my previous post.

 

[Plug]

Wow, I didn't know spelling and grammer mattered on this board. Shoot we should just disregard about 95% of the posts then!

Here is the basis for my comments:

-CMR pilots strike for 89 days in 2001 just before 9/11.
-CMR pilots achieve a contract that can only be rivaled by the likes of AWAC at the time.
-CMR pilots wear their ALPA pin with star atop for their achievement, as they should, but at the same time start waving their "holier than thou" finger at the rest of us.
-Delta furloughs and several CMR pilots with their strike pins and RJDC stickers say "I told you so!"
-In 2003 the CMR MEC stepped on their wankers by publically stating that they did not support the hiring of furloughed DAL pilots while allowing them to retain their re-call rights, unless of course, the DAL MEC would be willing to re-negotiate scope.
-Later in 2003 the infamous Request For Proposal (RFP) emerged from the office of Fred Buttrell and the CMR pilots were asked for concessions by Radamacher. ASA pilots were 1 year in to their negotiations and were asked to take a 2 year break from negotiations. Both the ASA and CMR pilots collectively told management to pack sand.
-RFP results came in the form of nothing for CMR and 25 planes for ASA thus proving that it is not necessary to bid for flying.
-In late 2004 CMR's Sabre system takes a dump and Randy is the fall guy, Fred Buttrell steps in.
-Early 2005 the ASA pilots recieve a letter and flight bag sticker from the CMR MEC pledging their support for our negotiations that have exceeded 2 years.
-Days after the ASA pilots recieve the support from the CMR MEC the ASA MEC recieves a phone call from the CMR MEC stating that they (CMR) has reached a TA for a pay freeze so as to secure more 70 seat flying from DALPA concessions. No consultation with the ASA MEC, just a "this is what we are doing." So much for unity!
-The TA passes with 61% in favor. 61% of the CMR pilot group also voted to get rid of any integrity they had but still flash their strike pin while thumping their chests and screaming "We held the line, where were you?"
-Mesa comes to DCI.
-ASA transfers 10 50 seat airframes to CMR (I flew the first one N862AS to MCO for ya!) so as to comply with provisions of the new CMR LOA.
-ASA is sold to Skywest.
-DL files BK and drags CMR in with them.
-CMR announces reductions and the CMR pilots cry foul and say that it is everyone elses fault in the industry.

This last part is where I have a problem. You guys fought the fight you thought needed to be fought and you got hosed. Stop blaming others and look inside your leadership for the blame because they sold you a $hit sandwich and you took a big ole bite out of it.

 

[cmrflyer]

I think you will find the blame is directed at mgt, both in atl and cvg. Put blame where blame belongs. After all, they are the ones who get paid a sh!t load of money to write contracts and run airlines. They seem unable to do either one very well.

 

[737 Pylt]

After all, they are the ones who get paid a sh!t load of money to write contracts and run airlines. They seem unable to do either one very well.

Amen to that. But they are very good at rewarding their incompetence with bonuses, compensation packages, and golden parachutes!
737

 

[N813CA]

Don't worry about it. If the judge makes us take a 10 percent pay cut, than Chattaqua or what ever you want to call it will be the highest paid DCI carrier. Get ready you will be bending over next!!!!!