Comair to furlough 500??!!

[Hose]

Two things here:

1. FB also told CMR that they would get many more airplanes if they signed on the dotted line. Now, it is the opposite of his salespitch. Be careful that FB may be attempting to spread fear in the ranks so that he can get voluntary concessions from the group w/o having the bankruptcy judge force them. This would further make him look like he's in control, therby further stroking his enormous ego. Then again, he's probably right this time.

2. Why are we pilots from ASA/CHQ/CMR/DAL bickering amongst each other when we ought to be uniting to fight our common enemy - management? Divide and conquer couldn't be more successful.

I couldn't agree more. I think FB is trying to scare everyone. We will see in a couple of days. I heard an announcement will be made by the 6th of Oct.

 

[surplus1]

Malone or Buergey? Malone wasn't the MEC Chairman at DAL at the time. I wonder about the accuracy of your sources when you can't even get the names of the players right.

You are correct, he made a small slip, it was not Malone it was Buergey. You all change your MEC Chairmen so frequently it is difficult to keep track. What matters was your MEC's approach. not the name of your chairman. A bad approach almost always results in a bad landing.

Quick question BVT. Did the CMR MEC support a policy that would require the resignation of a furloughed pilot's seniority number in 2003 in order to work at CMR and did the CMR MEC change its position on seniority resignation in late 2004?

The answer to your first question is no. The CMR MEC simply did not agree to fall on its sword in an effort to change a company policy for the exclusive benefit of Delta pilots. The answer to your second question is yes, the CMR MEC did modify its position in 2004 in response to a modification of the DL pilots position advanced by your new chairman, Malone.

Now I have a few questions for you. As a DL pilot, what makes you feel that CMR should change its policy to give Delta pilots preferential treatment over those pilots furloughed at other air lines? Why do you feel that DL pilots were more entitled to those jobs and on different terms from other furloughed pilots?

Why did the DMEC chairman offer a bribe of preferential treatment, that he had no power to deliver, in exchange for preferential treatment to which he was not entitled? How come Malone got what he asked for in 2004 without any offer of bribes on either side, and Buergey got nothing with is bribe attempt, when both of them asked for the very same thing?

You're entitled to your prejudices. Just keep your facts straight in the process.

 

[surplus1]

That was a nice synopsis, Plug. Remember, not all of us that were at CMR and ASA had the mentality that you describe above. We got our time, and left. I will be watching to see if Delta really follows throught with this, or if it is just grandstanding in order to extract concessions from the Delta pilots. No matter what happens, the Comair pilots made their own bed. They must now sleep in it.

Glad to be gone

I don't know where your gone from but based on your many previous posts and this one, if it was CMR there is little doubt that you were never missed.

CMR pilots have not yet had a problem with seeping in thier own beds. We have faced crises before and we will face this one too.

Glad you're gone too.

 

[surplus1]

7. I'm sorry. Didn't you get my assessment for your 89 day strike? If you didn't want it I would like it back please.

Are you sure you're not a DL pilot? That one's right out of their play book.

Your profile seems to indicate you're with ASA. If so, you're the first ASA pilot that I've seen stoop to that level.

I wish you handn't.

 

[Texx]

Are you sure you're not a DL pilot? That one's right out of their play book.

Your profile seems to indicate you're with ASA. If so, you're the first ASA pilot that I've seen stoop to that level.

I wish you handn't.

When one of the CMR pilots complains that we didn't back or support CMR pilots, yeah, that will be the response.

>>If so,you're the first ASA pilot that I've seen stoop to that level.<<

Well I guess I had to get down on the same level as your CMR pilot that made the original post.

 

[surplus1]

Sad, Texx. I respectfully suggest there are better ways to deal with differences of opinion between us.

 

[Texx]

Sad, Texx. I respectfully suggest there are better ways to deal with differences of opinion between us.

I agree.

 

[FDJ2]

You are correct, he made a small slip, it was not Malone it was Buergey. You all change your MEC Chairmen so frequently it is difficult to keep track. What matters was your MEC's approach. not the name of your chairman. A bad approach almost always results in a bad landing.



The answer to your first question is no. The CMR MEC simply did not agree to fall on its sword in an effort to change a company policy for the exclusive benefit of Delta pilots. The answer to your second question is yes, the CMR MEC did modify its position in 2004 in response to a modification of the DL pilots position advanced by your new chairman, Malone.

Now I have a few questions for you. As a DL pilot, what makes you feel that CMR should change its policy to give Delta pilots preferential treatment over those pilots furloughed at other air lines? Why do you feel that DL pilots were more entitled to those jobs and on different terms from other furloughed pilots?

Why did the DMEC chairman offer a bribe of preferential treatment, that he had no power to deliver, in exchange for preferential treatment to which he was not entitled? How come Malone got what he asked for in 2004 without any offer of bribes on either side, and Buergey got nothing with is bribe attempt, when both of them asked for the very same thing?

You're entitled to your prejudices. Just keep your facts straight in the process.

Thanks for answering my questions. Leaving your spin on the approach aside, as you have confirmed the CMR MEC did in fact refuse to help furloughed pilots and did in fact support managements position requiring that DAL pilots resign their seniority number. It's good to see that it only took the CMR pilots 3 years to change their position.

You mentioned "Falling on your sword" to support the hiring of furloughed pilots and give them preferrential treatment. Funny how the ASA pilots didn't need to "fall on their sword." In 2004 when the CMR MEC flip flopped on preferential hiring of furloughed pilots, did they have to "fall on their sword"? I thought not, so drop the fig leaf of "falling on your sword".

Now too your question, why should an ALPA pilot group support the preferrential hiring of furloughed ALPA pilots? Well, for starters the ALPA Administrative Manual encourages it. The fact that you even have to ask the question speaks volumes.

 

[scopeCMRandASA]

I don't know where your gone from but based on your many previous posts and this one, if it was CMR there is little doubt that you were never missed.

CMR pilots have not yet had a problem with seeping in thier own beds. We have faced crises before and we will face this one too.

Glad you're gone too.

What a pathetic post.

 

[Nindiri]

My question is: Why should the Comair pilots have pressured management to give preferential treatment to Delta pilots as opposed to furloughed pilots from other airlines? Had the Delta pilots done anything or extended any sort of similar courtesy to Comair pilots previously? Having not been at either airline, I honestly don't know.

I do recall quite a few Delta guys on the ALPA national boards pre-9/11 saying they would never support a staple because they didn't want their buddies to have to start in an RJ. (Not that the Comair guys were saints, either.)

 

[surplus1]

Thanks for answering my questions. Leaving your spin on the approach aside, as you have confirmed the CMR MEC did in fact refuse to help furloughed pilots and did in fact support managements position requiring that DAL pilots resign their seniority number. It's good to see that it only took the CMR pilots 3 years to change their position.

Leaving your spin on the side that isn't what I said. What is said was the CMR MEC did not chose to prove selective preference for Delta pilots over the pilot of other airlines. We in fact hired many furloughed pilots from a wide variety of ALPA carriers. Yours was the ONLY group that found itself too good to accept Comair management policy. That's your problem and you're not going to get away with trying to make it our problem.

You mentioned "Falling on your sword" to support the hiring of furloughed pilots and give them preferrential treatment.

Another attempt at spin but it won't work. What I said was this:

The CMR MEC simply did not agree to fall on its sword in an effort to change a company policy for the exclusive benefit of Delta pilots.

Note the phrase "for the exclusive benefit of Delta pilots" and don't exclude it in an effort to cloud the issue. The CMR MEC did support preferential interviews for all furloughed ALPA pilots. What it did NOT support was different and special preference for Delta pilots, that would put you ahead of other furloughed ALPA pilots. That is what you wanted, that is what your MEC Chairman tried to bribe us to give you, and that is what you did not get.

Funny how the ASA pilots didn't need to "fall on their sword." In 2004 when the CMR MEC flip flopped on preferential hiring of furloughed pilots, did they have to "fall on their sword"? I thought not, so drop the fig leaf of "falling on your sword".

ASA management unilaterally initiated the preferential employment of furloughed pilots. The ASA pilots did nothing at all to make that happen. All that they did was not object to a management policy, which was never the same as CMR management policy anyway.

Now too your question, why should an ALPA pilot group support the preferrential hiring of furloughed ALPA pilots? Well, for starters the ALPA Administrative Manual encourages it. The fact that you even have to ask the question speaks volumes.

That was not the question that I asked. Read the question again, then either answer it or forget it. Don' change the question so that you can come up with an answer that fits in to your spin program.

Tell me why DL pilots felt that they were intitled to better treatment than given to furloughed pilots from other air lines. I'll ask again: Why did you feel that you were entitled to preferential treatment compared, say, to a furloughed USAirways pilot? What made you different in your own mind? Why did Delta pilots feel they should get more from Comair than other pilots?

You won't answer the question because it embarrases you when your idea that your were more special than others is revealed.

No one on the Delta property ever treated anyone on the Comair property as special in comparison to any other pilot group. In fact you did the exact opposite. Why then did you expect us to do more for you than you ever did for us?

Look, I'm not asking you to love CMR pilots for I already know you hate our guts. That didn't result from any policy related to furloughed pilots, it existed long before and YOU know that. Tell it like it is and stop trying to put out false information and sugar cote your own position.

You offered a bribe in exchange for special treatment an we tured you down.
It's that simple.

 

[General Lee]

Surplus1,

We were owned by the same people. We fed each other traffic. We offered you preferential hiring in '99-----and that was told to me by your ex System Chief pilot who went over to Delta Express in 99 (I gave him a jump seat down to MCO from ATL). He told me you guys turned that down. We offered you preferential hiring even before 9-11. Then the DCI pilots jumped up and down when they thought they would get DOH from the ALPA merger policy. An ASA pilot told me (I was on his CRJ jumpseat from ATL to CLE at the time) that he would eventually retire on the 738 flying left seat to Central America. He said that. I am sure the Comair people believed the same for awhile. So, to answer your question---we were (are currently) owned by the same people, and we offered you preferential hiring before 9-11. You guys didn't seem to care about that when we started furloughing, and instead wanted more 70 seaters before you would bargin. The truth hurts. Did USAir offer that to you? But you treated their furloughs "the same". Why would ASA offer our pilots help, and your airline would not? Oh yeah, there was a "policy" that couldn't be broken (until 2004). What?????


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[JI Gone OH]

No one on the Delta property ever treated anyone on the Comair property as special in comparison to any other pilot group. In fact you did the exact opposite. Why then did you expect us to do more for you than you ever did for us?

Look, I'm not asking you to love CMR pilots for I already know you hate our guts. That didn't result from any policy related to furloughed pilots, it existed long before and YOU know that. Tell it like it is and stop trying to put out false information and sugar cote your own position.

You offered a bribe in exchange for special treatment an we tured you down.
It's that simple.

And that just about sums it up. Well done, Sir.

 

[General Lee]

JI,

Are you sure about that? Your ex System chief pilot told me that DL offered you preferential hiring in 99 but you guys turned it down. Are you sure you know what you are saying? You are wrong there buddy, and so is Surplus.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FDJ2]

Surplus, the CMR pilots were never asked to "fall on their sword" for Delta furloughed pilots. As a matter of fact when the CMR pilots flip flopped on supporting the requirement that furloughed ALPA pilots give up their recall rights in October 2004, no such "falling on your sword" was required. That's just spin on your part. It was simply petty small mindedness on the part of the CMR pilots to kick furloughed pilots when they are down. I can understand your desire for revisionist history.

12-06-2002, 16:00 #1
snowback
Registered User
DAL MEC meets Comair MEC
From a recent DALPA Code-a phone message

Item two. At its October meeting, the (Delta) MEC passed a resolution directing the MEC Chairman to meet with the Comair MEC to pursue a reciprocal preferential hiring policy for furloughed Delta pilots at Comair and for Comair pilots at Delta. This week, MEC Chairman Capt. Will Buergey met with the Comair MEC Chairman in Cincinnati to discuss this issue further. The Comair MEC Chairman stated that his MEC administration does not support the hiring of furloughed Delta pilots at Comair. ASA management, at the ASA MEC’s request, has already hired furloughed Delta pilots, who start at the bottom of the airline’s seniority list and retain their recall rights at Delta.

12-06-2002, 16:13 #2
ACE
Registered User


It's not going to happen. Comair management and the Comair pilot group do not want the Delta pilots to come over and work with us. The only way it could happen is if Delta management says too take the Delta pilots. The Comair pilots are ready to cause chaos if we are made to do this against our will. I do not want to see any Delta pilot furloughed, but for them to come to Comair is a conflict of interest. For all you Delta pilots, you guys can call me an ass all you want for saying this, but it is fact.