Comair MEC burning bridges with Delta?

[MetroSheriff]

Half of his posts are childish taunting. The other half, including his profile, are meaningless gibberish.

 

[spinproof]

hey boys..the Metroshewolf is right! I'm just an immature meaningless lifer with a chip on his shoulder.. well hell there you go and I thought I disguised it soooo well!

It's true I'm green with envy..or is that the beer they're serving..anyway yes your success is my albatross... for the want of higher aspirations go I.. a proud but noble cause forbidden by my lot in life.. so I must dwell with the lower life forms and be happy there... cause I will never be welcome in the higer chamber of professionals and will be forever relagated to this my vivacation.

Imagine how embarrassed my family must be to finally realize I'm really just a poolcleaner with a computer...so with that I must bid you higher (and I say this with all due respect) life forms adue.

You're still a bunch of whiney losers!

envivos kisseth mi asso

 

[spinproof]

NYSTRANGER

OK now I'm confused if I'm I a pilot or not..To tell you the truth I'm not sure myself..hell did I grease that last one or not ...gee lets see no...a little right of center ..don't let it float... more... a little more back pressure on the yoke.. S.O.A.B. I hit the threshold lights...

I hate it when they send in professionals to critique your work...

You are still a bunch of whiney over-paid professionals!

 

[MetroSheriff]

If you want to be taken seriously, why not dispatch the sarcasm and inflammatory rants?

Tell us what you background is, where you stand on the issues, and what you consider potential solutions.

You can start by editing your profile in such a manner so as to indicate what segment of the industry you are employed, your level of experience and background.

Perhaps then your input will be labled as something other than childish flamebait.

 

[General Lee]

Spinproof,

Making fun of people out of work, huh? You're cool. Hey, I am not one of those, but I know many who are and that really is low. But, I don't want to be a whiner in your eyes.....DUH!!! You aren't even worth this whole mess------you and your MEC can both enjoy that RJ and HUGE paycheck for the rest of your lives, while other people like MetroSherrif move on to bigger and better things. When our furloughs do come back ----and the arbitrator may make that decision soon----they will make up for the pay loss fast. Am I dreaming? You will when you see that 777 taxi by and you start to think why you won't be flying that. Whaaaa! Whaaa!
You are the one who will be crying then. And what about the 737-800's in 2005? We will get 24 of them----the ones deferred
from 2003. And how about more 777's? The word is that we are looking for more---and not United's 777's. Figured it out yet? Ummmmm yeah------Got ya. We're not dreaming-----you and your MEC are.

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[spinproof]

Gee Metro...And I must add here I have an endearing affection for the "San Antonio Sewer Pipe", whats with the change of heart... I thought you thought I was just some clown with a computer....to tell you the truth thats all I am...some clown with a computer! So you're right!

But thanks for the effort . As for my profile it is what it is! Take it or leave it . No man is an Island... thats my point..when we as pilots decide to respect each other for what we do , no matter the delivery system, no matter the position , no matter the time, then I'll tell you the rest.

If and until then you may flame me as I have flamed those that feel they are superior to those of us that do what we do because we LOVE IT!!!!

I think you catch my drift, don't you Metro!

I hope I'm not wrong!

 

[spinproof]

General Lee

..this really hurts because I am a southern born and a southern bred and when I die a southern dead! My intention wasn't to make fun of furloughees, on the contrary I only wanted to make those of you which feel they are superior to those of us that fly for that "Feeder" airline, understand there are choices in life...we all make them.. rightly or wrongly we make them!!!

Don't tell me you deserve something you're not willing to give up if the shoe is on the other foot!
I respect your position don't try to demean mine! the last time I looked total time is equal to total time! So I don't care if you flew right seat on the space shuttle it's still not PIC and who gives a happy shi*.

No I haven't figured it out yet, United isn't ordering 777's they're ordering RJ's 425 of them... so as for turbulance buckle up! I'M STATIC FOR THE RIDE ...RU!

 

[Kingairrick]

This thread has gotten to the point (with spinproof's help) where I am pretty sure I AM a pilot, but I'm not really sure WHY...

 

[General Lee]

Spinproof,

Ok, I am lost. What did you say? I wasn't putting down your seat or aircraft, I flew for the regionals too. I have a lot of respect for regional pilots, and I have had those 7 leg days myself. What I was getting at is that I believe (along with a lot of other Delta pilots) that what your MEC is doing by not allowing our furloughed pilots access to a bottom senority job at your company is wrong. Then you chime in and say I am whining. I am just stating that there are a lot of unhappy people looking at this situation. Yes, you have a job---good for you, so do I. If you are hiring 50 a month, and Comair is owned by Delta, why not help the furloughed people? We helped you in your time of need. That is my point. When things turn around eventually, people will not forget this. I think this is going nowhere with you.
Adios.

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[spinproof]

Ok I sincerely apologize to all that I have offened. I was "baiting" and while it was fun to get everybody fired up, it serves no other purpose.

You are right General, people won't forget . They should, but they won't. The two sides believe their cause just. As this thread started it will also end, without a solution.

While the outward appearance of this is a simple matter of hiring preferrances, the truth is it goes much deeper. So while this game is played out I'm pretty sure most of us are aware of the risks by now.

The only winner in all this is Management. They will continue to "blur" the issues, divide and try to conquer. But then it will be easy for them because we will all help! To deny this is to deny the absurdity of argument.

By the way I DO NOT fly for COMAIR !

The "A@@ Clown" bids you farewell

 

[skydiverdriver]

So, why won't anyone even ATTEMPT to answer my question? NYRANGERS probably thinks he answered it, but he did not. It's a very simple question, and nobody will even try to answer me. NYRANGERS apparently didn't understand it, and needs to read it again.

 

[Caveman]

General Lee wrote:

"There was talk about a staple way back when, but your senior guys wanted date of hire senority. None of our 10,000 pilots at the time wanted that. The senior guys at Comair and ASA ruined it for everyone else by requesting that."

Not true. Provide just one document from any official Comair/ASA source that requested/demanded/asked for a DOH merge. This is one of the lies that has been passed around so much people now think that it's a true statement. All our MEC asked for was a PID. That means we felt that the lists should have been merged and we wanted the normal sequence of events to take place that would have had the union look at it and then attempt to provide a fair and equitable combined list WITH NO WINDFALL FOR ANY GROUP. The PID was denied out of hand. No one ever officially discussed how the lists should have been merged. I grant you that there were lots of folks on various message boards discussing how they would like to see it done, but that was nothing more than a barroom argument and it wasn't from any official ASA/Comair source. Please don't continue to promulgate that rumor any longer. It serves no purpose other than to be devisive and on it's face it is patently untrue.

 

[9rj9]

Delta needs to look within

I see the DAL guys are whining about Comair not allowing them jobs without giving up their numbers, yet they see nothing wrong with their own MEC giving us up to 49% of their flying. The junior DAL guys are getting sold out and the blame is directed toward a handfull of low paying jobs few would take anyway. Whats next relaxing the 70 seat cap, and the 90 seater ? If I were junior at Delta I would worry about my own house burning down instead of tearing down the regionals.

 

[rjcap]

The senior guys at Comair and ASA ruined it for everyone else by requesting that."

The only thing ruined are the careers of the 1,000 + Delta pilots who have been furloughed for an undetermined amount of time. You can lay blame for this at the door of the Delta MEC.

 

[Lumber Yak]

RJcap,

You can shift blame all you want - the real issue is how furluoghed Delta pilots are being treated... Comair continues to hire pilots but refuses to consider Delta pilots on a preferential basis - insists that they resign their seniority numbers... Doesn't Delta own Comair? ASA is helpful and Comair is not.

Fact: Comair MEC's refusal to consider furloughed Delta pilots for hiring has hurt its relationship with the Delta MEC. Most Delta pilots are outraged considering the help Delta pilots provided during the unsuccessful Comair strike. Furloughed pilots are being used as bargaining chips.

Result: Comair pilots will receive no preferential treatement for Delta hiring in the future (although ASA pilots will receive such treatment). If you are a junior Comair pilot with aspirations of flying for Delta one day (maybe years down the line), you should not be happy with your elected MEC and their actions.

 

[skydiverdriver]

MR Yak,
You are assuming that everyone agrees that Delta pilots helped Comair pilots with their strike. This is a point of disagreement, and is not a "fact."

 

[General Lee]

Ok, here I go again.

Caveman: How do I know the senior guys wanted date of hire seniority? Because I was there. ASA's number 1 pilot ( I believe he is in charge of the CRJ program now) told me on a jumpseat from CLE to ATL in 1998 that he believed he would finish out his career as a Captain on the 737-800 flying to Central and South America from ATL---as a Delta Captain---and he was in his upper 50's then. ASA's MEC told people he thought he could "slip in" to MD-11 FO seat from his CRJ Capt. spot. Then there was the "jumping up and down" of the whole pilot group when they thought they were going to get ALPA's senority merging policy in mid 1999. I saw it---they were all jumping up and down with glee until they realized that it would not happen. A lot of what your PID etc said was to use certain ratios etc to make it fair. Guess what? Going from a CRJ Capt to a 767FO over top people that interviewed is not right, and it would have been a winfall. Look at the salary differences----a 2nd year MD88 FO makes more than a 12 year RJ Capt. That is the way it is---good or bad.

9RJ9:
First of all, the 49% number is wrong. The actual number is 44%, and if Delta were hurting that bad to move it to 49%, Comair and ASA would likely be sold off. Delta has $2.6 Billion in cash and another $2 Billion it could mortage if needed. You won't see your 49%. The reason the MEC set it at 44% is to set the bar again.
They will not renegotiate a number again for several years, giving us time to reorganize and prepare for the next contract. As far as the MEC selling us out or whatever, we had a no furlough clause that seemed acceptable, and nobady saw 9-11 coming. You have to admit, as I have already, that unfortunately 9-11 did cause major harm to all of us, and our company had to furlough some high paying people---pilots. Ok, fine. The arbitrator in our current case said back in May of last year that he allowed it because "people were scared to fly." Well, he is now reviewing that and should come up with a new order soon. The clause in our contract stated that regardless of the economy or unprofitability of Delta---No furloughs. People aren't scared to fly, they are scared to buy expensive tickets. That is not our fault, and our pilots will return sooner than later. Then we will hire again, and there will be a lot of people who will not forget how Comair WAS NOT there for us, like we were there for YOU during YOUR UNSUCCESSFUL STRIKE. None of you ever respond to that. I never heard a thank you. I paid a lot of money to help you, and now you can't help my friends that are furloughed. Thanks a lot.

RJCAP: So, you think our furloughed guys or girls have "ruined carrers?" I fly with a lot of 767 Capt's that were with Western and were furloughed in the 80's for up to 7 years. They now make more than 5 of your Captains combined. Were they ruined?
I think that was a cocky remark. I bet our furloughed people love reading that they are "ruined." They were caught up in something unbeleiveable (9-11), and they will eventually come back and be secure again. I haven't forgot about them, and I think they will not forget about what Comair's MEC thinks about them.

Spinproof: Thanks for playing. I am glad you don't work for Comair----I couldn't believe I spent money for someone like you slamming people out of work. That's all for now.

Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[DAL737FO]

You can say that again. My career isn't even close to being ruined. Set back...yes ruined....no. It took me close to 7 months but I'm back flying and I got another company paid type rating to boot (G1159). Delta will stick around. Matter of fact compared to the rest of the hub and spoke industry we are doing quite well. I'll be back and I'll remember this for the future. This has been quite the learning experience.

GII/GIII FO
formerly DAL737FO

 

[MetroSheriff]

MR Yak,
You are assuming that everyone agrees that Delta pilots helped Comair pilots with their strike. This is a point of disagreement, and is not a "fact."

If you disagree then why don't you have the MEC return the money donated to Family Fund?

 

[Lumber Yak]

Skydiverdriver,

Like Metrosheriff was saying, I was referring to the money donated to the family fund. Do you remember that? How much money was donated on your pilots' behalf?

Do you think Comair pilots would fund relief for Delta furloughees now? I didn't think so.